Rhopalostylis sapida

[Las Palmas Norte]

Rhopalostylis sapida  -  anyone ever try one?

[ShadyDan]

56 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Rhopalostylis sapida  -  anyone ever try one?

Funnily enough I just ordered seeds from New Zealand last night. Seems like a good palm for Tofino and Western Van Isle... we are probably too cold in the winter / too dry in the summer for these to thrive on our side. I'm going to try anyways though.

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

Funnily enough I just ordered seeds from New Zealand last night. Seems like a good palm for Tofino and Western Van Isle... we are probably too cold in the winter / too dry in the summer for these to thrive on our side. I'm going to try anyways though.

I'm on the NZ Seeds e-mail list. I was thinking the same regarding climactic environment. I doubt Rhopalostylis would have appreciated last summers heat dome. I wonder what the max temps where during that time for Tofino & Ucluelet and the recent arctic event?

[ShadyDan]

1 hour ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

I'm on the NZ Seeds e-mail list. I was thinking the same regarding climactic environment. I doubt Rhopalostylis would have appreciated last summers heat dome. I wonder what the max temps where during that time for Tofino & Ucluelet and the recent arctic event?

I'd be happy to sell (for cheap) or trade a few seeds if you like. The minimum order was 100, and I don't really want to grow 100 Rhopalostylis.

Yea it got close to 40 degrees at my place for a few days with 20-30% humidity and nighttime lows of 20+, doubt they ever see those temps in their native range. Looks like Tofino was 30-35 during that time with higher RHs and lower nighttime temps, so still hot but but much closer to acceptable ranges for this palm.  I can't imagine Tofino got colder than my place during the artic blast and likely hasn't seen any real cold in a long time based on all the giant cordylines you see all over town. I was in Tofino during the coldest night of the event and I remember going for a drive the following morning and my truck only read -3.

[Las Palmas Norte]

3 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

I'd be happy to sell (for cheap) or trade a few seeds if you like. The minimum order was 100, and I don't really want to grow 100 Rhopalostylis.

Yea it got close to 40 degrees at my place for a few days with 20-30% humidity and nighttime lows of 20+, doubt they ever see those temps in their native range. Looks like Tofino was 30-35 during that time with higher RHs and lower nighttime temps, so still hot but but much closer to acceptable ranges for this palm.  I can't imagine Tofino got colder than my place during the artic blast and likely hasn't seen any real cold in a long time based on all the giant cordylines you see all over town. I was in Tofino during the coldest night of the event and I remember going for a drive the following morning and my truck only read -3.

We topped out at 106°F / 42°C during that time. It was still 90°F / 33°C at 11:30 pm and upper 70's by sunrise the next morning.

The Rhopalostylis sounds like a real deal offer. I'm regularly down in Qualicum Beach so I'm sure we can arrange a meet up when you get those seeds. All I have is fresh T. fortunei seed right now, so it's likely to be a cash deal on what you're willing to sell. We can PM on any further related details. 

Regards, Barrie.

[Hutch]

I've been tempted...but have not...you now have me re evaluating.....might pick one up from Jungel Music...when I'm down there in March...they need shade is what I've read..no burning sun?

[ShadyDan]

32 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

We topped out at 106°F / 42°C during that time. It was still 90°F / 33°C at 11:30 pm and upper 70's by sunrise the next morning.

The Rhopalostylis sounds like a real deal offer. I'm regularly down in Qualicum Beach so I'm sure we can arrange a meet up when you get those seeds. All I have is fresh T. fortunei seed right now, so it's likely to be a cash deal on what you're willing to sell. We can PM on any further related details. 

Regards, Barrie.

Sounds good Barrie, I'll shoot you a PM when they come in.

 

28 minutes ago, Hutch said:

I've been tempted...but have not...you now have me re evaluating.....might pick one up from Jungel Music...when I'm down there in March...they need shade is what I've read..no burning sun?

You are in Oregon, so i think they would benefit from some afternoon shade, or dappled shade. I don't think they should be grown in full shade in our climate though (unlike maybe in California). If you have any large evergreens you can plant under that would probably work best... offer some shade in the summer + cold protection in the winter. I say do it anywyas and let us all know how it works for you!

[Chester B]

I've always been interested in this one too.  I've been worried that we were just too cold in winter.

I've actually seen these palms in habitat, but at the time had no interest in palms.  All I remember from NZ is primarily the tree ferns, calla lilies, and the Christmas trees.

I will be waiting for all your experiences on this one.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Chester B

[LivistonaFan]

I had ordered 100 seeds from a seller from New Zealand (probably the same source @ShadyDan ordered from) two years ago and after a while one has germinated - it's still the only one till now . But now I am not as certain anymore that it is a R.sapida because it looks awfully similar to one of my 15+ Brahea 'super silver' which I germinated at the same time (although I strictly separated the germinating bags).

 

Here it is - what do you think? 

A bit off-topic: Here it is growing together with a few Guihaia argyrata,  a (hopefully recovering) Livistona nitida (which got pulled out of the ground by some wild boars), an Arenga ryukyuensis, a Macrozamia, an unknown palm seedling and a Syagrus weddelliana. All my other bigger seedlings are in an unheated room without additional light. 

[Ryland]

I hope it works out for you - many have tried and all have failed here in the UK.  Our cool and cloudy conditions are fine for them, the issue is they need a true 9B (nearly 10A) climate.  High 20s Fahrenheit will scorch the foliage and below 27F, it's hit or miss whether it will survive.  Some have survived low 20s with heavy damage.  I haven't grown them but I have done loads of research because I've wanted one of these since I first saw them in southern California in 2009.

This is my favourite palm.  I even tried to buy one from Germany to keep as a houseplant (move outdoors in summer) but they were out of stock and now I'm out of space.

[ShadyDan]

7 hours ago, Ryland said:

I hope it works out for you - many have tried and all have failed here in the UK.  Our cool and cloudy conditions are fine for them, the issue is they need a true 9B (nearly 10A) climate.  High 20s Fahrenheit will scorch the foliage and below 27F, it's hit or miss whether it will survive.  Some have survived low 20s with heavy damage.  I haven't grown them but I have done loads of research because I've wanted one of these since I first saw them in southern California in 2009.

This is my favourite palm.  I even tried to buy one from Germany to keep as a houseplant (move outdoors in summer) but they were out of stock and now I'm out of space.

I do hear they make good potted plants, so at the very least I'll hopefully have some for that purpose on my cool back deck. By the looks of it too much of there native range falls within 9A coastal South Island, so there's got to be some hardier strains out there. Definitely not expecting them to be a bulletproof palm (best chance definitely the west coast of Van Isle), but always fun to try!

@LivistonaFan all palms look about the same to me at that stage haha, so I can't be much help. I've never grown either of those yet, but if it was the "super silver" variety, I would expect it to be more silver? Even at that stage.

[LivistonaFan]

36 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

I do hear they make good potted plants, so at the very least I'll hopefully have some for that purpose on my cool back deck. By the looks of it too much of there native range falls within 9A coastal South Island, so there's got to be some hardier strains out there. Definitely not expecting them to be a bulletproof palm (best chance definitely the west coast of Van Isle), but always fun to try!

@LivistonaFan all palms look about the same to me at that stage haha, so I can't be much help. I've never grown either of those yet, but if it was the "super silver" variety, I would expect it to be more silver? Even at that stage.

Unlike Brahea armata, Brahea super silver doesn't show any silver on the first leaves at all. In fact, it takes several years to show some silvery color and even then I haven't yet seen a single one which can match the color of a nice Brahea decumbens or silver form of Bismarckia nobilis.  I am rather using the Brahea 'super silver as small Brahea armata substitutes + they supposedly need even less summer heat for good growth than Brahea armata.

I expected that a R.sapida the size of my plant would already have bifid leaves. Furthermore, root growth seems to be too good for a palm that is originating from a rather humid temperate island. I guess it will reveal its identity soon with a more mature leaf(palmate or pinnate).

[UK_Palms]

A bunch of us are trialling them here on the UK mainland and I have some seedlings coming along. I am way too cold in winter in my inland location, however they should grow okay in London's UHI and along the milder south coast of England, where it never really drops below -5C / 23F. The lowest at London City airport so far this winter is 0C / 32F and the lowest at Torquay is like +1C / 35F. We have our coldest night of winter forecast tonight though, probably, as we head into the depths of winter now.

I believe the historic freeze of January 1987 killed all the old Rhopalostylis off that were a decent size after the all-time record low of -7C / 19F on Tresco back 35 years ago. However new ones grew from the seeds they dropped, since they do seed prolifically once established, as you will see. No doubt these are the furthest north mature Rhopalostylis in the world, or the furthest from the equator even. I am guessing these ones are about 30-35 years old now then, given that the 1987 freeze was 35 years ago now. As previously mentioned, the record low of -7C / 19F completely killed the Tresco Rhopalostylis back in January 1987.

Since then the new ones haven't seen colder than -5C / 23F and I don't think they have experienced anything below 2C / 35F for almost 4 years now. The last frost was in Feb 2018 I believe. If you see temperatures of -6C / 21F or below, you can probably forget about ever growing Rhopalostylis long term without protection. I suspect -5.5C / 22F will probably be enough to defoliate them here in the UK and in the PNW, due to the cool-wet winters with no real warm-up for months on end. A low of -7C / 19F is guaranteed death in the UK and PNW. You would need a very good microclimate that is sheltered from cold winds, like a south facing wall in central London. I would say zone 9b is the bare minimum really.

Here are the Tresco ones at 50N...

\

 

A bunch of smaller ones can be seen on this video, although the 3-4 biggest ones are not shown. I have heard that there are close to 100 Rhopalostylis in the Abbey Gardens. 

 

[Chester B]

@UK_Palms very cool.  Thanks for the info.  My suspicion before your post was that they would need some help most years, this seems to confirm it.

We need to get some of these planted down in Gold Beach or Brookings, sounds like an ideal climate.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Chester B

[Las Palmas Norte]

14 hours ago, Chester B said:

@UK_Palms very cool.  Thanks for the info.  My suspicion before your post was that they would need some help most years, this seems to confirm it.

We need to get some of these planted down in Gold Beach or Brookings, sounds like an ideal climate.

I was just thinking that region of SW Oregon would be ideal. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

16 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

A bunch of us are trialling them here on the UK mainland and I have some seedlings coming along. I am way too cold in winter in my inland location, however they should grow okay in London's UHI and along the milder south coast of England, where it never really drops below -5C / 23F. The lowest at London City airport so far this winter is 0C / 32F and the lowest at Torquay is like +1C / 35F. We have our coldest night of winter forecast tonight though, probably, as we head into the depths of winter now.

I believe the historic freeze of January 1987 killed all the old Rhopalostylis off that were a decent size after the all-time record low of -7C / 19F on Tresco back 35 years ago. However new ones grew from the seeds they dropped, since they do seed prolifically once established, as you will see. No doubt these are the furthest north mature Rhopalostylis in the world, or the furthest from the equator even. I am guessing these ones are about 30-35 years old now then, given that the 1987 freeze was 35 years ago now. As previously mentioned, the record low of -7C / 19F completely killed the Tresco Rhopalostylis back in January 1987.

Since then the new ones haven't seen colder than -5C / 23F and I don't think they have experienced anything below 2C / 35F for almost 4 years now. The last frost was in Feb 2018 I believe. If you see temperatures of -6C / 21F or below, you can probably forget about ever growing Rhopalostylis long term without protection. I suspect -5.5C / 22F will probably be enough to defoliate them here in the UK and in the PNW, due to the cool-wet winters with no real warm-up for months on end. A low of -7C / 19F is guaranteed death in the UK and PNW. You would need a very good microclimate that is sheltered from cold winds, like a south facing wall in central London. I would say zone 9b is the bare minimum really.

Here are the Tresco ones at 50N...

A bunch of smaller ones can be seen on this video, although the 3-4 biggest ones are not shown. I have heard that there are close to 100 Rhopalostylis in the Abbey Gardens. 

 

Your pics where awesome!  The video was OK but the narrator was nearly oblivious to the palms there. He did acknowledge one but misidentified a Washingtonia as Trachycarpus 

[UK_Palms]

2 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Your pics where awesome!  The video was OK but the narrator was nearly oblivious to the palms there. He did acknowledge one but misidentified a Washingtonia as Trachycarpus 

Yeah, I noticed that too. He clearly isn't a 'palm' guy like us lot on here. He seemed to focus on a lot of the shrubs and flowers growing there, rather than the palms. He walked past a few big, trunking Rhopalostylis without even showing them, when us lot would have been fixated on such extraordinary and rare palm specimens. 

I only posted that video because it showed quite a few smaller Rhopalostylis, especially about halfway through the video. There is a huge 45-50 foot Washingtonia Robusta at 0:59 as well, which he barely even showed, before proceeding to call some other washies "tachycarpus". Also, only a tiny section of the garden is covered in this video.

[PalmCode]

Also be carefull especially for younger Rhopalostylis growing in black plastic pots. Iv'e lost a few in just one day by leaving them in the summer sun here around 27 degrees. They can basicly get cooked by the pot getting so hot and the roots hate it.

[Las Palmas Norte]

15 hours ago, PalmCode said:

Also be carefull especially for younger Rhopalostylis growing in black plastic pots. Iv'e lost a few in just one day by leaving them in the summer sun here around 27 degrees. They can basicly get cooked by the pot getting so hot and the roots hate it.

Good advise @PalmCode . Temps can and do get much hotter than that. Are they affected by high heat even in shady conditions?

[PalmCode]

They will certainly have a much better shot in the shade and waterd well in higher temperatures. It never really gets over 30 where I am and ones in ground do ok in the sun at that heat. The older leaves get a bit burned though. 
As for temperatures up to 40 in the shade I couldn't tell sorry. Maybe some of the Australian members here would know. Would definitely be worth trying to grow some in your climate though.

[Ryland]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:19 PM, Las Palmas Norte said:

I was just thinking that region of SW Oregon would be ideal. 

Yes I agree!  Tresco, as @UK_Palms point out, is the only place in the UK where established, mature Rhopalostylis are doing well in the open.  The climate (temperatures) there is almost identical to what you'd find at Brookings, Oregon, with the exception of it having slightly cooler winter daytime temps (10ºC at Tresco compared to 12ºC at Brookings).  Like Brookings, it can go several years between frosts.  Places further up the Oregon coast may be accommodating, but they have higher risk of the occasional harder frost than Brookings.

[MarkbVet]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:04 AM, ShadyDan said:

I do hear they make good potted plants, so at the very least I'll hopefully have some for that purpose on my cool back deck. By the looks of it too much of there native range falls within 9A coastal South Island, so there's got to be some hardier strains out there. Definitely not expecting them to be a bulletproof palm (best chance definitely the west coast of Van Isle), but always fun to try!

@LivistonaFan all palms look about the same to me at that stage haha, so I can't be much help. I've never grown either of those yet, but if it was the "super silver" variety, I would expect it to be more silver? Even at that stage.

Nope... the super silver Brahea is notorious for remaining true green in many cases, until well after the early palmate stage.  Only turns silver with more maturity, then gets really silver later!