In depth analysis of the Athens Riviera climate and palm potential

[southathens]

So after the storm in the Athens Riviera earlier today Piraeus has narrowly escaped with around 22C minum during the storm in the various met stations of the area.

The next 48 hours will be crucial on whether Piraeus will drop below 20C for the first time in its met history (from 1956) during August. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Manos33

[Janni]

8 hours ago, Victor G. said:

Check out  36.800581, 21.744426

Seems very similar to the image from the article you posted. There are no street views nearby, but you can click on the beach bar (Destino) and you'll find it there

That’s funny. That beach bar is just 3km away from my place and I saw that very palm grove the first time I drove by and wondered if it is theophrastii or dactylifera. 
I will check it out the next days and post it here in this thread. 

[Phoenikakias]

20 hours ago, Janni said:

That’s funny. That beach bar is just 3km away from my place and I saw that very palm grove the first time I drove by and wondered if it is theophrastii or dactylifera. 
I will check it out the next days and post it here in this thread. 

You know what to look at for the purpose of an identification, don't you? If I remember correctly, you must have visited also the Gölköy, so you are probably able to tell, whether the multi-stemmed  specimen is similar to this taxon. 

[southathens]

As the storms have significantly weakened in Attica, it appears highly unlikely that Piraeus will drop below 20C  after all. If it didn't manage to do it during the last 3-4 stormy days in Athens then it isn't happening. 

So the record of never dropping below 20C for more than half a century during August still stands. I think it is highly likely that the Athens Riviera is the only area in continental Europe to manage this. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Manos33

[Janni]

17 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

You know what to look at for the purpose of an identification, don't you? If I remember correctly, you must have visited also the Gölköy, so you are probably able to tell, whether the multi-stemmed  specimen is similar to this taxon. 

I was at the Vai beach and at Preveli beach on Crete and saw the original variety. Although I don’t have any pictures of the travels I made back then, I think the palms here at this beach bar are no theophrastii because they look different to the palms I saw on Crete.  
I checked it out and I must say, I think it is a dactylifera clump. The dates are far too large, to be theophrastii. Also the petioles are too green for theophrastii. 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Janni

[Janni]

on the way from the camping site to that beach bar, there is a nice large fruiting archontophoenix 😃

 

[Victor G.]

I think theophrastii is genereally smaller than dactylifera, or am I wrong?

Hmm... I expected the dates down there to have ripened more than that. They still have a long way to go to reach the final stage

[Phoenikakias]

3 hours ago, Janni said:

I was at the Vai beach and at Preveli beach on Crete and saw the original variety. Although I don’t have any pictures of the travels I made back then, I think the palms here at this beach bar are no theophrastii because they look different to the palms I saw on Crete.  
I checked it out and I must say, I think it is a dactylifera clump. The dates are far too large, to be theophrastii. Also the petioles are too green for theophrastii. 

 

Janni I agree! Also check how parallel to the petiole spread the spines and how disproportionally small are the proximal ones. This is a trait only of dactylifera and perhaps a result of its domestication.In theophrastion the other hand spines spread almost vertically to the petiole and the basal ones are considerably bigger.  Besides I even doubt that this clump consists only of one plant.

[Phoenikakias]

4 hours ago, Janni said:

I was at the Vai beach and at Preveli beach on Crete and saw the original variety. Although I don’t have any pictures of the travels I made back then, I think the palms here at this beach bar are no theophrastii because they look different to the palms I saw on Crete.  
I checked it out and I must say, I think it is a dactylifera clump. The dates are far too large, to be theophrastii. Also the petioles are too green for theophrastii. 

 

Have you checked the other two 'solitary' specimems?

[Janni]

42 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Have you checked the other two 'solitary' specimems?

Yes I did but I didn’t dare to take pictures there 😳 after all it is a beach bar, where people in shorts and bikinis are lying in the sun… and then there comes the palm nerd (me) taking pictures! They looked at me very suspiciously. 
the other two specimen also didn’t look like theophrastii. 
 

[southathens]

Hot start for October in Athens. 

Locally up to 36C is forecasted in West Athens and throughout the Thriasio area. Mostly due to the expected fohn winds in that area.

 

[Phoenikakias]

Αξίζουν τα λεφτά να αγορασω αυτόν τον σταθμό; Δεν θελω κατι πολυ ακριβό, γιατι θα ειναι εκτεθειμενο σε κλοπη απο την γνωστή ευπαθή ομαδα. 179 ευρώπουλα

Edited December 11, 2022 by Phoenikakias

[Victor G.]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

Αξίζουν τα λεφτά να αγορασω αυτόν τον σταθμό; Δεν θελω κατι πολυ ακριβό, γιατι θα ειναι εκτεθειμενο σε κλοπη απο την γνωστή ευπαθή ομαδα. 179 ευρώπουλα

@PhoenikakiasI'm going to reply in English, as they've threatened to remove the thread if we continue the conversation in Greek.

 

I have had for almost a year this weather station: https://www.skroutz.gr/s/31888177/Bresser-Professional-WIFI-Colour-Weather-Center-5-in-1-V-7002585-Ασύρματος-Μετεωρολογικός-Σταθμός-Ψηφιακός-Επιτραπέζιος-Μαύρος.html

and to be honest, I don't understand what's the difference with the one you want to buy. Except that the console look differently, I think it performs more or less the same operations.

I think it's a good choice if you don't want to go to a professional station (which cost more than 1000 euros).
Go to the link above and read my review on Skroutz (it's all this katevato). I think it will answer your question.

And since I have almost the same station. feel free to ask me anything in a private message!

[Phoenikakias]

@Manos33 your opinion please...

[southathens]

8 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

@Manos33 your opinion please...

It's a relatively good option if you have to stick to a low budget.

But in all honesty the most accurate meteorological data come from Davis stations. They are pretty expensive (around 1k) but your data will be comparable to official meteorological stations and we will also be able to take them into serious account (provided you upload your data to the WeatherLink Davis Network) even for research purposes. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Manos33

[southathens]

13 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

 σε κλοπη απο την γνωστή ευπαθή ομαδα.

Χμμ....λίγο προσοχή τι λέμε βρε συ...

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Manos33

[Phoenikakias]

2 hours ago, Manos33 said:

Χμμ....λίγο προσοχή τι λέμε βρε συ...

 

Την αληθεια, εχω πεσει θυμα αρκετες φορες.

[dalmatiansoap]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:31 PM, Victor G. said:

I think theophrastii is genereally smaller than dactylifera, or am I wrong?

Agree on this. Pictures are from Vai taken two years ago. All "wild" population looks more neglected and are much smaller 

[Phoenikakias]

Theo needs a lot of water and I can not overstate using the word a lot! Otherwise it will remain stunted or even acaulescent for ever.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Phoenikakias

[Foxpalms]

14 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Theo needs a lot of water and I can not overstate using the word a lot! Otherwise it will remain stunted or even acaulescent for ever.

I also find that mine needs to constantly be watered in the summer even in the winter if we have a week or so without rain, as it continues to grow throughout winter.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Foxpalms

[southathens]

As 2022 is now over and in order for you guys to comprehend the climatic diversity in Metropolitan Athens check out the two extremes from the National Observatory of Athens Stations 

The coldest annually NOA station in Metropolitan Athens is Dionysos with a simple average annual temperature of 15.8C 

https://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/dionysos/NOAAPRYR.TXT

The warmest annually NOA station in Metropolitan Athens is Nea Smyrni with a simple average annual temperature of 20.3C 

https://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/neasmyrni/NOAAPRYR.TXT

Even warmer is the Glyfada Davis station of the WeatherLink network with a simple average annual temperature of 20.5C

I doubt we have many cities in the world that experience up to 5C differences in average annual temperatures between coldest and warmest spot...

[southathens]

Well, administratevely speaking Mount Parnitha is also located in Metropolitan Athens and last year registered an average annual T of around 10.9C

https://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/parnitha/NOAAPRYR.TXT

Obviously not a populated area but just to showcase the T differences in Metropolitan Athens between coldest average annual T with 10.9C vs warmest with 20.5C in Glyfada. Almost 10C celcius in such a small area...

Edited January 3, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

So let me try to give a rough summary of how varied the climate of Metropolitan Athens is according to the NOA, HNMS and WeatherLink met networks the past decade:

• Highest average annual temperatures are along the Athens Riviera with slightly over 20.5°C in Glyfada.
• Lowest average annual temperatures are to be found in Parnitha Mountain with slightly less than 11°C 
• Highest average annual precipitation again in Parnitha at around 760 mm 
• Lowest average annual precipitation again in the Athens Riviera with the Athens Marina NOA station recording less than 340 mm
• Highest summer maximums in the center of the Athens Basin and W. Athens with slightly over 35°C in July and August in Nea Filadelfeia HNMS station and Salamina NOA
• Highest summer minimums are to be found in the Piraeus coastal zone with around 27°C in August
• Highest winter maximums of around 15°C in January are to be found again in the Athens Riviera
• Highest winter minimums of around 9°C in January once again in the Athens Riviera

There are of course more extreme values in the Attica Peninsula, but in areas slightly outside Metropolitan Athens. For example in the Athens Riviera part which is outside Metropolitan Athens the average annual precipitation in Anavyssos NOA station is merely 315 mm the last decade while in Ippokrateios Politeia in North Attica it stands at over 870 mm.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

4 hours ago, Manos33 said:

So let me try to give a rough summary of how varied the climate of Metropolitan Athens is according to the NOA, HNMS and WeatherLink met networks the past decade:

• Highest average annual temperatures are along the Athens Riviera with slightly over 20.5°C in Glyfada.
• Lowest average annual temperatures are to be found in Parnitha Mountain with slightly less than 11°C 
• Highest average annual precipitation again in Parnitha at around 760 mm 
• Lowest average annual precipitation again in the Athens Riviera with the Athens Marina NOA station recording less than 340 mm
• Highest summer maximums in the center of the Athens Basin and W. Athens with slightly over 35°C in July and August in Nea Filadelfeia HNMS station and Salamina NOA
• Highest summer minimums are to be found in the Piraeus coastal zone with around 27°C in August
• Highest winter maximums of around 15°C in January are to be found again in the Athens Riviera
• Highest winter minimums of around 9°C in January once again in the Athens Riviera

There are of course more extreme values in the Attica Peninsula, but in areas slightly outside Metropolitan Athens. For example in the Athens Riviera part which is outside Metropolitan Athens the average annual precipitation in Anavyssos NOA station is merely 315 mm the last decade while in Ippokrateios Politeia in North Attica it stands at over 870 mm.

Also

• Lowest winter maximums in a populated area is around 9°C in January in Dionysos suburb
• Lowest winter minimums in a populated area is around 4°C in January again in Dionysos
• Lowest winter maximums for the whole of Metropolitan Athens is around 3°C in January in Parnitha Mountain
• Lowest winter minimums for the whole of Metropolitan Athens is -1°C in January again in Parnitha Mountain

Edited January 7, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

On 3/31/2022 at 5:29 PM, Victor G. said:

By the way, Monemvasia displays an extremely mild climate. I've suspected it for one or two years now (seeing how Athens was down to 1C and Monemvasia managed to stay above 5C very often).
I finally did the math and it's one good winter short of becoming 11a! That's gotta be somewhere in the top 10 of Greece, right? @Manos33

@Victor G.

Monemvasia is already 11a considering it did not fall below 9.2C in January and next week's cold snap seems to not affect it particularly (provided it does not fall below 5.1C ) 

It's therefore the only area of continental Greece according to NOA stations with an 11a zone and with 16 years worth of data!

Edited January 29, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

@Phoenikakias @Victor G.

Snow the next few days in Athens.

The Athens Riviera will be less affected but keep an eye on your plants as the cold snap will last at least 7 days...

 

[Phoenikakias]

On 1/29/2023 at 11:22 PM, Manos33 said:

@Victor G.

Monemvasia is already 11a considering it did not fall below 9.2C in January and next week's cold snap seems to not affect it particularly (provided it does not fall below 5.1C ) 

It's therefore the only area of continental Greece according to NOA stations with an 11a zone and with 16 years worth of data!

16 years are a veeeery short time for safe estimation of a microclimate. I am almost 57 y.o. and I have never experienced up to now  during three consecutive years settling snow in Athens.

[Phoenikakias]

54 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

@Phoenikakias @Victor G.

Snow the next few days in Athens.

The Athens Riviera will be less affected but keep an eye on your plants as the cold snap will last at least 7 days...

 

Like I have already in stated, snow cover for a third consecutive year in coastal southern Attica was not exactly what I had in mind, when I stepped in to the hobby. In fact I would have never indulged in to palms in first place, if I knew it! I am ready to protect big palms every few years but NOT every year. It's big trouble for me to protect large palms every single year. No sir, live and let die...

[Foxpalms]

We are also having a colder period next week but the coldest air mass heading you're way instead of going here has saved us from any temperatures below 0c. Despite the fact we are still going to have a fairly cold air mass next week, the one heading towards Greece is so cold it means our temperature will be higher than Athens for a few days which isn't that common for consecutive days in a row during winter. Hopefully the royal palm there doesn't get damaged.  On the UK weather forecast websites it isn't showing any snow for Athens other than high elevation areas.

[Victor G.]

19 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

On the UK weather forecast websites it isn't showing any snow for Athens other than high elevation areas.

Yeah, the forecasts tend to have great differences in these cases. The weather is highly unpredictable.

I remember last year most models predicted 2-5 cm of snow in the northern suburbs of Athens. Instead, we got 40! (cm)

[Phoenikakias]

2 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

We are also having a colder period next week but the coldest air mass heading you're way instead of going here has saved us from any temperatures below 0c. Despite the fact we are still going to have a fairly cold air mass next week, the one heading towards Greece is so cold it means our temperature will be higher than Athens for a few days which isn't that common for consecutive days in a row during winter. Hopefully the royal palm there doesn't get damaged.  On the UK weather forecast websites it isn't showing any snow for Athens other than high elevation areas.

 

1 hour ago, Victor G. said:

Yeah, the forecasts tend to have great differences in these cases. The weather is highly unpredictable.

I remember last year most models predicted 2-5 cm of snow in the northern suburbs of Athens. Instead, we got 40! (cm)

For what it may be worth, last year same time of the day temperature in my garden was a plain, round zero and downtown just 1 C. Today it is between 12 and 11 C.  I dare say cold spell will not be that extended and that severe in Attica, as of last year.

PS

With zero C  I had been occupied wrapping all my tender palms in the garden, while house was without heating. I nearly felt I was going to die by hypothermia.  So I took an oath to avoid such suffering in the following year.

[southathens]

11 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Like I have already in stated, snow cover for a third consecutive year in coastal southern Attica was not exactly what I had in mind, when I stepped in to the hobby. In fact I would have never indulged in to palms in first place, if I knew it! I am ready to protect big palms every few years but NOT every year. It's big trouble for me to protect large palms every single year. No sir, live and let die...

No, this time it wont be like 2021 and 2022.

I mean I highly doubt snow will settle in coastal areas. Unless very locally there are very intense snowfalls that might sharply drop the Ts

I am not even sure the Athens Riviera will get any snow. The forecasts as they stand now seem like rain or sleet for south Athens.

[southathens]

12 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

16 years are a veeeery short time for safe estimation of a microclimate. I am almost 57 y.o. and I have never experienced up to now  during three consecutive years settling snow in Athens.

15 years is good enough for most met services to get climate normals

Here an example from NOAA using 15 years for climate normals. 

Downtown L.A

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/services/data/v1?dataset=normals-monthly-2006-2020&stations=USW00093134&format=pdf&dataTypes=MLY-TMAX-NORMAL,MLY-TMIN-NORMAL,MLY-TAVG-NORMAL,MLY-PRCP-NORMAL,MLY-SNOW-NORMAL

Also Monemvasia is actually 17 years of data. Below the full table of climate normals 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Manos33

[Foxpalms]

It looks very cold in Athens, hopefully the less hardy palms make it. Would love to see what the royal palm in Athens looks like after the colder weather.

[Phoenikakias]

Aint that bad as presented in the  various weather applications. For example at 07 pm local time indication of temperature in my smart phone was 0 but downtown it was actually 4 C.

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

Aint that bad as presented in the  various weather applications. For example at 07 pm local time indication of temperature in my smart phone was 0 but downtown it was actually 4 C.

The weather forecasts here are also always forecasting colder temperatures than the acutal temperatures in the city center.

[southathens]

light snow fell in areas of the Athens Riviera without settling.

North Athens as always completely white

[southathens]

Speaking of the cold snaps in the Athens Riviera, below the data from Lavrio.

Basically the only area of the Athens Riviera at the extreme south of Attica that has never recorded an air frost the past 15 years that the NOA station is operating. 

Earlier today it briefly dipped to 1.3C

Edited February 6, 2023 by Manos33

[Phoenikakias]

@Victor G. how about the Dikastika, has snow settled and for how long, what has been the lowest temp?

[Victor G.]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

@Victor G. how about the Dikastika, has snow settled and for how long, what has been the lowest temp?

3 degrees at the moment, but it dropped to 1,1 at some point today 🥶🥶
The precipitation was mostly sleet, no snow accumulation though.

I am worrying about my plants! (Last year they survived, but let's see this year)

Here's the weather: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IMARAT9