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In depth analysis of the Athens Riviera climate and palm potential


Manos33

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My lyrata drops all leaves when I forget to say goodmorning...

previously known as ego

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16 hours ago, ego said:

I have seen many fruiting papayas in Greece but lyratas drop all their leaves for the slightest reason. Mine dropped them all twice: once because I repotted it and once in the winter (I kept it outdoors).

That doesn't make them necessarily extra sensitive.

Maybe it doesn't like its roots disturbed. There are many plants that display a bad reaction if you disturb their roots. Some of them (I think Bismarckia was one) can even die if you repot them.

As for the second reason, maybe because it was a young tree. I can't imagine that the climate difference between Voula and Nea Makro is so big that in Voula it would stay evergreen and in Nea Makri lose all leaves.

Also, didn't you see a lyrata in Andros last year? I remember you telling me something about that 

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34 minutes ago, Victor G. said:

That doesn't make them necessarily extra sensitive.

Maybe it doesn't like its roots disturbed. There are many plants that display a bad reaction if you disturb their roots. Some of them (I think Bismarckia was one) can even die if you repot them.

As for the second reason, maybe because it was a young tree. I can't imagine that the climate difference between Voula and Nea Makro is so big that in Voula it would stay evergreen and in Nea Makri lose all leaves.

Also, didn't you see a lyrata in Andros last year? I remember you telling me something about that 

What exactly is the temperature difference between N. Makri and Voula?

previously known as ego

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Further corrections in the list of the driest NOA stations in Greece

image.png.5b497ccd1a2681257f4f7c73decba1a8.png

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9 hours ago, ego said:

What exactly is the temperature difference between N. Makri and Voula?

I mean the mean winter temperatures or the winter lows. They might have differences, but it's not enough to cause leaf drop in one area but not in the other.

Edit: I know understood it was a genuine question. I don't know at the moment, but I can look into it when I'm home

Edited by Victor G.
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On 4/16/2023 at 10:26 PM, Manos33 said:

Here is the map zoomed for better visualization 

image.thumb.png.6c1946f716be1189eb6bbbea7037c6be.png

Just to add that for the last decade (Mar 2013-Feb 2023) even Downtown Athens from the historical WMO station of the National Observatory of Athens has dropped to a BSh hot semi-arid climate with a simple avg annual T of 19.72C and 387.7mm  average annual precipitation. 

This highlights the need for extra irrigation when planting tropical plants in Athens!  

Edited by Manos33
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Even downtown Thessaloniki dropped to BSh hot semi-arid the past decade!

2053433064_Screenshot2023-04-23at8_23_00PM.png.6950c073d2fb1e3935f01679f6c8a372.png

 

Edited by Manos33
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  • 2 months later...
On 2/7/2023 at 10:55 PM, Victor G. said:

Let's see how it goes. Right now the Athens Riviera is 1-1,5 degrees warmer than Dikastika. But it's funny how every cold spell affects different areas differently.

For example Nea Styra, despite being coastal, usually sees big temperature drops (probably from the Evia mountains). This time however, it's in much better fate than Dikastika or Nea Makri 

You have to make use of 'canaries'. One such canary for our climate is the Gaussia maya. It is alkaline tolerant, cool tolerant too, but on the moment temp dips below freezing point, even just slightly, you get marks on the leaves. I did get such marks on mine this year.

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Updated pics from today of the Royal in Voula

1760712481_WhatsAppImage2023-07-01at2_21_06PM.thumb.jpeg.9aa6c92e041b2d8b3ee24a853c1d09b8.jpeg

994939155_WhatsAppImage2023-07-01at2_21.05PM(4).thumb.jpeg.67cfa67ba61f78e02efb7c8a0714efef.jpeg

359978077_WhatsAppImage2023-07-01at2_21.05PM(1).thumb.jpeg.d3419602cdea26db3b86175651e94923.jpeg

714066994_WhatsAppImage2023-07-01at2_21_05PM.thumb.jpeg.da49eaa37d3fcf63128310eb282cf20b.jpeg

307580211_WhatsAppImage2023-07-01at2_21.05PM(2).thumb.jpeg.a35c115b9308a3f39a7272478c1b1981.jpeg

 

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It will be one hell of a heatwave.

Everyone visiting Athens the next few days will need to be very very careful. Avoid the sun, always find AC rooms to rest and drink plenty of water.

The good thing about Athens is that literally EVERYWHERE we have ACs

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Suffice to say that we never warer plants in the morning under such conditions

Edited by Phoenikakias
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Confirmation that recently almost all of the National Observatory of Athens stations have received a WMO id

https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-300-1-athens

https://community.wmo.int/en/activity-areas/WIGOS/implementation-WIGOS/WIGOS-station-identifier

To find details for each station click on the map at the right.

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  • 2 weeks later...

45C locally today in Athens while 46.4C was recorded in Gytheio NOA station

Very rough conditions for tropical plants in the Athens Riviera

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On 3/31/2022 at 8:29 AM, Phoenikakias said:

Μηπως για Πορτο Ράφτι για ακομα καλύτερα;

Porto Rafti is a bit cooler than Artemis, about 1-2 C

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On 7/23/2023 at 7:54 PM, Manos33 said:

45C locally today in Athens while 46.4C was recorded in Gytheio NOA station

Very rough conditions for tropical plants in the Athens Riviera

@Victor G.

Nea Filadelfeia in Athens reached 45.4C on Sunday while E Attica in Avlonas reached 46.2C on Wednesday.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230724031805/http://www.emy.gr/emy/el/observation/yesterday_weather

https://web.archive.org/web/20230726162201/http://avlonas.meteoclub.gr/

Downtown Athens on Sunday also equalled it's all time record at the automatic met station in Thiseio with 44.8C

https://web.archive.org/web/20230728193259/https://www.iersd.noa.gr/WeatherOnLine/s_Thiseio/meteo_10d_airTempGR.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20230728193311/https://www.iersd.noa.gr/WeatherOnLine/s_Thiseio/charts10d/Met24h-airTemp_4.png

That was a brutal heatwave for Athens...

770845836_Screenshot2023-07-28at10_37_20PM.thumb.png.410059e719ff3a4f177cc497e83f3628.png

 

Edited by Manos33
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  • 3 weeks later...

On 8/19 at around 14:00 local time, 37 C in Kavouri, 35 in Vlachika Varis, 36 on same avenue near AB, again 35 near the Military Academy, 33, inland towards Koropi and 33 to 34 by the sea after Varkiza towards Sounion.

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  • 1 month later...

Really hot weekend is forecasted for today in Athens. Even as high as 36C locally

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Some interesting data from the official and historical WMO met station in Downtown Athens for the last 30 years.

So the average of absolute minimum T's stands at +0.13C. Yet again downtown Athens is 10a

 image.png.b16f27414f703d82862d951ae735d01e.png

Edited by Manos33
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  • 2 months later...
On 2/7/2023 at 2:17 PM, Greek Exotics said:

But Monemvasia is an island I think, because it's not naturally connected to the mainland, it is connected because of that road/bridge. 
 

Actually the WMO station of the National Observatory of Athens is located in mainland Peloponnese just off the tied island of Monemvasia. At the premises of Municipal Enterprise of Water and Sewerage Supplies of Monemvasia.

We are talking proper mainland Greece here.

https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-300-1-monemvasia

Screenshot2023-12-29at12_59_40AM.png.8d63d41cd991f247f4640e65b2918929.png

 

Screenshot2023-12-29at1_01_28AM.png.540c15800f3ef7f7288ddd488c28365c.png

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On 12/29/2023 at 1:02 AM, Manos33 said:

Actually the WMO station of the National Observatory of Athens is located in mainland Peloponnese just off the tied island of Monemvasia. At the premises of Municipal Enterprise of Water and Sewerage Supplies of Monemvasia.

We are talking proper mainland Greece here.

https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-300-1-monemvasia

Screenshot2023-12-29at12_59_40AM.png.8d63d41cd991f247f4640e65b2918929.png

 

Screenshot2023-12-29at1_01_28AM.png.540c15800f3ef7f7288ddd488c28365c.png

And here is a view of the Monemvasia WMO station.

Perfect set up as per WMO standards since the station is located on the ground overlooking the sea. 

Easily the area with the mildest winders in mainland Greece. Also probably one of the few locations in mainland Greece which straddles the 11a hardiness zone. Probably also the extreme SW tip of Peloponnese might also be 11a. It's a pity we don't have a station over there!

Screenshot2023-12-31at1_33_20PM.png.b85b7699947b25020ba68defa73ebce6.png

 

And below the updated climate data for Monemvasia

image.png.eb059b81f36a097f76aebe34c1f0c9b2.png

Edited by Manos33
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  • 3 weeks later...

@Victor G. @Phoenikakias

Below is a list of all the WMO met stations from the National Observatory of Athens in Greece that fall in 11a zone according to their data for their entire times series up to today 16 of Jan 2024.

Screenshot2024-01-16at12_41_52PM.png.24090cbac8bd65f80a9504ac24c8b586.png

Edited by Manos33
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btw Kastelorizo is just 0.2C from entering zone 11b provided the rest of the winter remains mild. Obviously only a few years worth of data but its becoming interesting

Screenshot2024-01-16at4_23_46PM.png.f3c980815e27a448e36881efde20d7c7.png

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3 hours ago, Manos33 said:

btw Kastelorizo is just 0.2C from entering zone 11b provided the rest of the winter remains mild. Obviously only a few years worth of data but its becoming interesting

Screenshot2024-01-16at4_23_46PM.png.f3c980815e27a448e36881efde20d7c7.png

I bought this one, hopefully it does some decent measurments.

20240116_185219.thumb.jpg.caa2db179216d51d670ab5b438d7a5d7.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

I bought this one, hopefully it does some decent measurments.

20240116_185219.thumb.jpg.caa2db179216d51d670ab5b438d7a5d7.jpg

Its not fan aspirated though.

whats the brand?

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2 hours ago, Manos33 said:

Its not fan aspirated though.

whats the brand?

A cheap Chinese model lol, anyway I could not afford a better quality, not to mention that the external sensor will run a serious risk to be stolen by gypsies.

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14 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

A cheap Chinese model lol, anyway I could not afford a better quality, not to mention that the external sensor will run a serious risk to be stolen by gypsies.

I mean the maxes will be overestimating but the minimum Ts should be ok, provided you mount it on the ground and not on the roof or something. 

Edited by Manos33
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On 1/16/2024 at 12:28 PM, Manos33 said:

@Victor G. @Phoenikakias

Below is a list of all the WMO met stations from the National Observatory of Athens in Greece that fall in 11a zone according to their data for their entire times series up to today 16 of Jan 2024.

Screenshot2024-01-16at12_41_52PM.png.24090cbac8bd65f80a9504ac24c8b586.png

Update to include the Port of Rhodes from the data of the met station of the Greek coast guard.

Screenshot2024-01-18at4_30_49PM.png.db77b936854c613282068db26535e94d.png

 

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On 1/16/2024 at 10:43 PM, Manos33 said:

I mean the maxes will be overestimating but the minimum Ts should be ok, provided you mount it on the ground and not on the roof or something. 

Ready and perfectly calibrated. The absolutely vertical position of the pole gave me a hard time though. Any idea about the function of the solar panel? The fact the multi sensors device is powered by batteries confuses me.

20240118_173527.thumb.jpg.330011f88d9c9cf332814a9e3608ed33.jpg20240118_173531.thumb.jpg.18612fc9340a3063384e7b5d5389db0f.jpg20240118_173538.thumb.jpg.243dd00e1cf19ee0755522280ec77163.jpg20240118_192419.thumb.jpg.a6b0531603adab6fc8d1acbd394b0cdd.jpg

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6 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Ready and perfectly calibrated. The absolutely vertical position of the pole gave me a hard time though. Any idea about the function of the solar panel? The fact the multi sensors device is powered by batteries confuses me.

20240118_173527.thumb.jpg.330011f88d9c9cf332814a9e3608ed33.jpg20240118_173531.thumb.jpg.18612fc9340a3063384e7b5d5389db0f.jpg20240118_173538.thumb.jpg.243dd00e1cf19ee0755522280ec77163.jpg20240118_192419.thumb.jpg.a6b0531603adab6fc8d1acbd394b0cdd.jpg

No idea about the solar panel, its specific to each model.

What I can tell though is that you have placed the station in a non standard way. It is very close to the ground and you will effectively register much lower minimums due to T inversion,  especially during cold windless and clear nights you might register up to 2C lower than the actual air temperature. You need to place it 2 to 2.5 meters above the ground if you want realistic minimum Ts.

Edited by Manos33
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On 1/19/2024 at 3:55 AM, Manos33 said:

No idea about the solar panel, its specific to each model.

What I can tell though is that you have placed the station in a non standard way. It is very close to the ground and you will effectively register much lower minimums due to T inversion,  especially during cold windless and clear nights you might register up to 2C lower than the actual air temperature. You need to place it 2 to 2.5 meters above the ground if you want realistic minimum Ts.

Problem solved and probably a couple others created!

20240120_185747.thumb.jpg.f6453c5e79f6d873551f0853e8b9782c.jpg20240120_185811.thumb.jpg.1dcec0ee0dfcd2676ede4fcc6b8ec97d.jpg

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It seems a bit higher than 2-2.5 meters. In any case its better than your initial set up

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@Phoenikakias what's the minimum your registered on the 23rd and tonight? It was pretty cold last night in Athens. 

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17 hours ago, Manos33 said:

@Phoenikakias what's the minimum your registered on the 23rd and tonight? It was pretty cold last night in Athens. 

In the night of the 24 5 C and 14 C max during the day. Not sure of the min on the 23, because it has been registered a record minimum of also 5 C, meaning that the mininimum on that day must have been also 5 C or higher. Max wind speed 30 km/h, precipitation 3.2 mm, minimum humidity 44%.20240124_151809.thumb.jpg.8ee6475b5a00d57dcc8bdeb57aabc7cc.jpg20240124_152136.thumb.jpg.fca88aa13f61521bb8b7e3faded5f0ac.jpg20240124_152331.thumb.jpg.ff78aa6d8f4fd782b65b0f90a6ce5981.jpg20240124_151843.thumb.jpg.e6b8e6d72c0adfce559e5985dada8055.jpg

20240124_150836.thumb.jpg.6c1eae1e338a1176e014133a915a8fb3.jpg

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Can it operate by wi-fi? Or it has direct connection with a base?

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1 hour ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Can it operate by wi-fi? Or it has direct connection with a base?

Unfortunately no wi-fi connection, and this restricts a lot process of raw data  and storage of information through an application. But it is a cheap model, and I am very little concerned about it being stolen or damaged by a falling frond.

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5C is very low. What is your altitude?

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138 m. Never said I live in a warm microclimate, instead I do not overstate by saying that local microclimate is rather cold for the area.

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8 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

138 m. Never said I live in a warm microclimate, instead I do not overstate by saying that local microclimate is rather cold for the area.

Oh ok! So u are very prone to T inversions over there. 

Below is a rough map of 11a zones in Greece according to NOA stations. Also the Davis station of Psari Forada in south Crete should be counted but since its a private station from the network of Creta Weather it is not considered ''official''. Kasos and Karpathos HNMS are also 11a from 30 years of data but don't appear on the map (well Kasos NOA does) since I focused mostly on NOA stations . Kastelorizo also does not appear since it was not even on the vectorized map of Greece. 

Not including Kastelorizo is a real thing in many maps of Greece I have noticed 😂

Screenshot2024-01-25at4_48_47PM.png.c0e64429a58add23ef6e3409d8afc87a.png

Edited by Manos33
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1 hour ago, Manos33 said:

Oh ok! So u are very prone to T inversions over there. 

Screenshot2024-01-25at4_48_47PM.png.c0e64429a58add23ef6e3409d8afc87a.png

I do not think so. Whole coast after the Ribas turn is way colder than Athens Riviera, except perhaps small patches of earth on the coastal line at the base of Mount Lavrion. This last detail is perhaps the most plausible explanation.

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