Slanted trunks

[Than]

I was looking at some photos of Oncosperma Tigillarium (Nibung palm) and I thought it looks a lot like cocos nucifera because many specimens of both species seem to have slanted trunks. That made me wonder which other palm species tend to often have slanted trunks. I find them particularly attractive. Are there any?

[DoomsDave]

Hmm, good question!

Some palms have a "gangsta lean" to their trunks naturally. Coconuts, some of the Archontophoenix, as well as any palm that leans because it got unstable.

I see you're from Greece; while it's warm there most of the time, I think it's too cold for a lot of what you'd like but I'm gonna shout to our favorite long-term palm nutty Greek to give his thoughts: howdy @Phoenikakias!

You could try a Howea forsteriana, though, again, I think it's too cold.

[Than]

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for your answer. Greece has many different climate zones depending on latitude, distance from sea etc. I live in an area with the same climate as that of Phoenikakias (he's already helped me a lot with my never ending questions - I am so lucky that such a palm expert lives so near me); it's on the limit between 9b and 10a. Howea Forsteriana can grow here on a south facing wall. I have seen one growing outdoors in central Athens as well. Other borderline tropical plants can survive here on south facing walls; I have seen big ficus elastica and a large plumeria. Howeas grow well outdoors in southern Greece zones 10a and 10b. The coldest it gets here is 0 or -1C.

I am planning to try Beccariophoenix alfredii, Archontophoenix and Veitchia Joannis. Phoenikakias has lots of different species in his garden, quite a few of them not frost tolerant I think.

Edited November 29, 2021 by ego

[mike in kurtistown]

Don't know whether it would survive in your climate, but Hydriastele rheophytica, a clumping (multi-stemmed) palm is characterized by slanting trunks. Here's a pic of one of mine:

 

[Than]

5 minutes ago, mike in kurtistown said:

Don't know whether it would survive in your climate, but Hydriastele rheophytica, a clumping (multi-stemmed) palm is characterized by slanting trunks. Here's a pic of one of mine:

 

Wow what a beauty. Where are you located? 

[mike in kurtistown]

South of Hilo, in what was once part of the Puna Sugar Company plantation. Climate stats are at the bottom of my earlier post. Never colder than the high 50's (Fahrenheit), but not very hot either.

 

 

[Bill H2DB]

Phoenix Reclinata   .    When occasionally frozen back in previous events  here in Daytona Beach , it grows back strongly .

[DAVEinMB]

41 minutes ago, mike in kurtistown said:

Don't know whether it would survive in your climate, but Hydriastele rheophytica, a clumping (multi-stemmed) palm is characterized by slanting trunks. Here's a pic of one of mine:

 

Off topic however a hybridization of C. Microspadix and C. Radicalis producing something like this as an end result would be glorious

Edited November 29, 2021 by DAVEinMB

[Than]

It's from New Guinea. I doubt that would survive here.. the climate here is too dry and hot in the summer and too cold in the winter for such species..  Absolute stunner though

[Brad52]

3 hours ago, mike in kurtistown said:

Don't know whether it would survive in your climate, but Hydriastele rheophytica, a clumping (multi-stemmed) palm is characterized by slanting trunks. Here's a pic of one of mine:

 

Dang!  Awesome!  I've been looking for one for a wet area that I'm decorating and thus far have only acquired a very wee seedling (Jeff Marcus) so if you have a source I'd love a lead on one.

[Darold Petty]

Isn't there an In-n-Out hamburger joke somewhere ??  

[Phoenikakias]

12 hours ago, ego said:

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for your answer. Greece has many different climate zones depending on latitude, distance from sea etc. I live in an area with the same climate as that of Phoenikakias (he's already helped me a lot with my never ending questions - I am so lucky that such a palm expert lives so near me); it's on the limit between 9b and 10a. Howea Forsteriana can grow here on a south facing wall. I have seen one growing outdoors in central Athens as well. Other borderline tropical plants can survive here on south facing walls; I have seen big ficus elastica and a large plumeria. Howeas grow well outdoors in southern Greece zones 10a and 10b. The coldest it gets here is 0 or -1C.

I am planning to try Beccariophoenix alfredii, Archontophoenix and Veitchia Joannis. Phoenikakias has lots of different species in his garden, quite a few of them not frost tolerant I think.

Hey Ant! Is that you?

[Than]

6 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Hey Ant! Is that you?

Yup

[Phoenikakias]

12 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Hmm, good question!

Some palms have a "gangsta lean" to their trunks naturally. Coconuts, some of the Archontophoenix, as well as any palm that leans because it got unstable.

I see you're from Greece; while it's warm there most of the time, I think it's too cold for a lot of what you'd like but I'm gonna shout to our favorite long-term palm nutty Greek to give his thoughts: howdy @Phoenikakias!

You could try a Howea forsteriana, though, again, I think it's too cold.

Howea is piece of cake here, as long as it is provided with adequate shade.  Well, almost all the time but for one single odd day every 30 or 50 years, which can kill it. I am experimenting with the protection of only the part of the stem hosting the meristem.  Leaves can be expendable, the meristem not. Bad news are that for some reason palms here do not make easily slanted trunks. They prefer the columnar style, perhaps influenced by the columns of ancient temples lol?   Another problem is that our summer is extremely dry and hot and therefore quite unsuitable for group planting which will prompt (some)individuals to lean away, as plants will start immediately to compete with each other for the precious soil moisture. At least this is accurate for spp with bigger dimensions. Perhaps planting as group smaller sized plants like Phoenix roebelenii could meet success.  Perhaps also Dypsis onilahensis, but I am still in the very beginning.

[Than]

So, unless I misunderstood, you protect Howea's meristem in winters? I thought no protection would be needed.

[Phoenikakias]

1 hour ago, ego said:

So, unless I misunderstood, you protect Howea's meristem in winters? I thought no protection would be needed.

Up to now never. I was talking theoretically of such a case in the future.  But I did cover once ot twice the meristem part of a newly planted Archie and of a Pritchardia.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Phoenikakias

[Than]

I see. I'm looking to buy a plot soon where I can finally start creating a garden.  Perhaps in Pikermi.  

If you ever come to Nea Makri let me know. Lunch is on me!

[Jim in Los Altos]

If you can find an Archontophoenix with plenty of trunk, you can plant it at a slant and it will gradually curve upward. I dug the one in the photos up several years ago and replanted it at a coconut-like angle. 
 

[Phoenikakias]

39 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

If you can find an Archontophoenix with plenty of trunk, you can plant it at a slant and it will gradually curve upward. I dug the one in the photos up several years ago and replanted it at a coconut-like angle. 
 

I wonder about the reason for the tappering of the youngest third of the trunk.

[Than]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

If you can find an Archontophoenix with plenty of trunk, you can plant it at a slant and it will gradually curve upward. I dug the one in the photos up several years ago and replanted it at a coconut-like angle. 
 

I was thinking of doing that trick with my Beccariophoenix. If I live long enough, that is. Should've started 20 years ago..

[Than]

2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Up to now never. I was talking theoretically of such a case in the future.  But I did cover once ot twice the meristem part of a newly planted Archie and of a Pritchardia.

Good to hear. If only Howeas could grow a bit faster..

[Phoenikakias]

2 hours ago, ego said:

I see. I'm looking to buy a plot soon where I can finally start creating a garden.  Perhaps in Pikermi.  

If you ever come to Nea Makri let me know. Lunch is on me!

Spring is the time for lambs. Then we could enjoy fresh lamb chops in one of the traditional tavernas in New Makri or Marathon.

[Phoenikakias]

17 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Hmm, good question!

Some palms have a "gangsta lean" to their trunks naturally. Coconuts, some of the Archontophoenix, as well as any palm that leans because it got unstable.

I see you're from Greece; while it's warm there most of the time, I think it's too cold for a lot of what you'd like but I'm gonna shout to our favorite long-term palm nutty Greek to give his thoughts: howdy @Phoenikakias!

You could try a Howea forsteriana, though, again, I think it's too cold.

Ha, if you call me palm nutty, you have missed the first used nick name of my fellow country man. 'Phoenicopath' (second part as for sociopath!). You may scream now...

[Than]

36 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Spring is the time for lambs. Then we could enjoy fresh lamb chops in one of the traditional tavernas in New Makri or Marathon.

We will call it "First Greek Palm Meeting" and post photos in this forum!

[Than]

33 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Ha, if you call me palm nutty, you have missed the first used nick name of my fellow country man. 'Phoenicopath' (second part as for sociopath!). You may scream now...

I am indeed a serious and incurable case of that mental condition that emerges when you fall in love with palm leaves and trunks. 

On that note, let's tell people what the "-akias" ending means in Greek. It means "geek"

[Johnny Palmseed]

2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

I wonder about the reason for the tappering of the youngest third of the trunk.

It is due to the tipping of the palm. It is an automatic response to the angle introduced. The palm is trying to increase it’s structural integrity. Some palms are able to handle tipping with ease like a sabal due to their hard woody trunks. Most others can’t and will “stretch” to keep from snapping. I have seen queen palms after a hurricane that were never righted and they exhibited this same characteristic. Imagine holding a wet mop above your head. While it is directly above you, the force required to keep it upright is generally equal from all sides. As you tip it over, you will require more force to keep it up and perhaps the handle will bend or break. Unless you add reinforcement, which is what the palm has done. Unfortunately, the end result is a distorted looking palm that doesn’t look quite right.

[Darold Petty]

This hamburger franchise restaurant uses Washingtonia robusta as a signature detail.  The palms typically are secured together at the crossing point with large diameter sisal rope for the first few years after installation.  

[Than]

18 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

This hamburger franchise restaurant uses Washingtonia robusta as a signature detail.  The palms typically are secured together at the crossing point with large diameter sisal rope for the first few years after installation.  

Am I sick in my mind for thinking palms with slanted trunks look awesome? I bet it takes decades to reach this result.

[Phoenikakias]

9 minutes ago, ego said:

Am I sick in my mind for thinking palms with slanted trunks look awesome? I bet it takes decades to reach this 

Spot on!

[Darold Petty]

This is accomplished in less time than you would imagine.  Wahingtonia is possibly the fastest growing palm in California.   The palms were installed with the straight trunks of 5 or 6 meters, set on the slanted angle shown.  the bend in the trunk happens after this installation, when the palm is attempting to re-establish a plumb, vertical angle to the trunk.   You cannot achieve the slant with a small palm, it must have adult, wood trunk.

  I installed a Howea in a careless and hurried fashion.  After a thorough irrigation the palm listed over at about a 10 degree angle.  This palm has recovered the vertical axis in just a few years.  

[Than]

24 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Spot on!

Ι take my medication every day.

[Than]

46 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

This is accomplished in less time than you would imagine.  Wahington is possibly the fastest growing palm in California.   The palms were installed with the straight trunks of 5 or 6 meters, set on the slanted angle shown.  the bend in the trunk happens after this installation, when the palm is attempting to re-establish a plumb, vertical angle to the trunk.   You cannot achieve the slant with a small palm, it must have adult, wood trunk.

  I installed a Howea in a careless and hurried fashion.  After a thorough irrigation the palm listed over at about a 10 degree angle.  This palm has recovered the vertical axis in just a few years.  

You have just answered my question in another thread, about the fastest growing palms in Med climates. Well, yes, if the plant is 5-6m tall already then it won't take long. What I meant is that it would take ages if you started with young plants.

[Than]

I took this photo in Sulawesi in January. Now don't tell me a slanted coconut is not a symbol of paradise. 

I wonder what made this tree take this shape. Perhaps it was straight initially and then collapsed due to erosion?

[Phoenikakias]

36 minutes ago, ego said:

I took this photo in Sulawesi in January. Now don't tell me a slanted coconut is not a symbol of paradise. 

I wonder what made this tree take this shape. Perhaps it was straight initially and then collapsed due to erosion?

Again spot on me thinks!

[Jim in Los Altos]

8 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

I wonder about the reason for the tappering of the youngest third of the trunk.

You can see the trunk height when I dug the palm up. The growth rings are very close together until the palm regained its strength. Archontophoenix can be a little tricky to dig and transplant. They don’t like root disturbance but I’ve successfully moved a number of them. 

[Than]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

Again spot on me thinks!

[Kim]

Chamaerops humilis is not fast, but makes a nice clump. These barely-tended street trees along the San Diego waterfront are a reasonable example. (street view screenshot) They are quite tough palms.

[DoomsDave]

On 11/30/2021 at 2:55 AM, Phoenikakias said:

I wonder about the reason for the tappering of the youngest third of the trunk.

Archontophoenix don’t like major disturbance. When you do that to them  they get that “shrunk trunk” syndrome like my otherwise very nice A. myolensis now displays.

[Tropicdoc]

Livistona chinensis in groups make nice curved trunks

i am going to try and curve some of my butia x parajubaea by using a ratchet strap and slowly applying force over several years 

I’ll let you know in 10 years if it works!

[Jim in Los Altos]

On 12/3/2021 at 6:57 PM, DoomsDave said:

Archontophoenix don’t like major disturbance. When you do that to them  they get that “shrunk trunk” syndrome like my otherwise very nice A. myolensis now displays.

True Dave but not necessarily all the time. The three Archies in the front of this grouping were dug as adults with six feet of woody trunk and only had basketball sized root balls. That was fifteen years ago. They never had even a slight slowdown. I kept them watered twice, sometimes three times daily for six months and removed inflorescences and they sailed through the reestablishment period. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jim in Los Altos