What kind of MONSTER creature did this?

[chad2468emr]

This morning I walked out to find my favorite dypsis pembana, c. radicalis, and archie myolensis seedlings that I spent all summer culturing have been devoured by something down to the soil. All but one archie was eaten. What the #%$@ does this and how do I find it and destroy it?!?!?

?????!!!!!!!!!!!!?????

[tinman10101]

could possibly did rats.  i had a mother rat defrond all my palm and cycad seedlings to build a nest next to my greenhouse. i was furious so i feel your pain.   

[UK_Palms]

I can’t say for sure, but I never trust slugs around palm seedlings anymore. Bigger palms seem to be fine, but I have caught slugs devouring smaller Phoenix and Chamaerops seedlings. They don’t seem to touch washingtonia though, although I wouldn’t put it beyond them. A lack of slime trails suggests it isn’t slugs in your case though. Maybe squirrels?

[chad2468emr]

20 minutes ago, tinman10101 said:

could possibly did rats.  i had a mother rat defrond all my palm and cycad seedlings to build a nest next to my greenhouse. i was furious so i feel your pain.   

I saw a rat in my yard the other day….. this was probably it. 

I may be leaving some little “treats” in those pots for it to enjoy shortly. 

[DoomsDave]

@chad2468emr ouch!

Been there, done that, still (rarely) doing that . . .

Looks like rats or other rodents. I have the same problem. They like the tender hearts and just munch in a tender salad.

I do traps as much as possible; if you're not sure exactly what they are, get different sized traps. There's bigger rat traps, small mouse traps and medium sized plastic ones. Bait with chunky peanut butter. I'd use at least one of all three.

A few caveats:

Put the traps under something, so birds won't get the bait and get trapped. (Had that happen the other day. ) Cats and dogs sometimes find them interesting too. So be careful.

Put out in the evening and check in the morning.

I don't like using poison. The huge trouble with poison is while it works, it can also poison other creatures either directly or by eating poisoned rodents. That's a big cause of death for mountain lions here in California. Rodents develop resistance, but the cats don't.

Unless you're a sadist I don't recommend the live catch traps with glue, especially. The rodents squeal in terror when you pick them up (who can blame them?); I'd rather just murder and be done with it. You're not offing endangered species.

Sorry if this is windy, but I have too much experience with this type of thing.

Let us know how it goes. And, there's always more Cham. radicalis seeds; they just keep coming. Archies, too. My cup runneth over and over and over  . . . . .

[Silas_Sancona]

51 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

@chad2468emr ouch!

Been there, done that, still (rarely) doing that . . .

Looks like rats or other rodents. I have the same problem. They like the tender hearts and just munch in a tender salad.

I do traps as much as possible; if you're not sure exactly what they are, get different sized traps. There's bigger rat traps, small mouse traps and medium sized plastic ones. Bait with chunky peanut butter. I'd use at least one of all three.

A few caveats:

Put the traps under something, so birds won't get the bait and get trapped. (Had that happen the other day. ) Cats and dogs sometimes find them interesting too. So be careful.

Put out in the evening and check in the morning.

I don't like using poison. The huge trouble with poison is while it works, it can also poison other creatures either directly or by eating poisoned rodents. That's a big cause of death for mountain lions here in California. Rodents develop resistance, but the cats don't.

Unless you're a sadist I don't recommend the live catch traps with glue, especially. The rodents squeal in terror when you pick them up (who can blame them?); I'd rather just murder and be done with it. You're not offing endangered species.

Sorry if this is windy, but I have too much experience with this type of thing.

Let us know how it goes. And, there's always more Cham. radicalis seeds; they just keep coming. Archies, too. My cup runneth over and over and over  . . . . .

Only thing i'll add to Dave's great advise is ..if you can find them, there are mouse/ rat traps that are covered ..where the critters have to go into them to access the bait.. Helps lower the chances other things will get into ..and killed / injured by..  the trap itself.  Some will close afterwards, making everything easier to dispose of afterwards.  Rats are pretty smart though and even these types of traps fail to capture them.. This is when the Glue Boards come out ( Believe some can be covered, to keep non target things out as well ).  A smart rodent gets no sympathy.

[Looking Glass]

The culprits here would be rats, squirrels, or iguanas.  

If you saw a black rat, you can bet there are many rats nearby.   I never knew about rats until getting the house here.  I have seen exactly two living rats outside.   One on the powerline (their highway) and one in a palm tree eating fruit.   Last year when the temps dropped into the 70s and 60s at night, they started trying to get into the vents in the roof.  Heard them scratching and chewing nightly for months, until they broke the metal edge and got into the bathroom vent.  

I started putting traps in the rain gutters and caught many of them.  Many more than I expected.  Had to have someone come by and reinforce all of the vents with metal screening.   
thankfully that combo worked until it warmed up and they were satisfied at home in the trees again.  

Black Rats are not like mice.   They are very smart and acrobatic, climb as well as squirrels, trap shy, and shy of new objects, and live in hierarchical colonies.  They nest in the trees and in roofs, and are called “palm rats” or “roof rats” here, for this reason.  They are not like Norway Rats from northern cities, that nest underground.  

You can trap them with peanut butter or nuts/seeds.  But if the trap fails once, they won’t fall for it again.  I have the best luck with black clamshell traps, or the flat old fashioned metal or wood snap traps, rotating things as they smarten up.  You can get a black plastic box that holds the clam traps inside, or I tie the traps to something with string so they can drag them away.  Every commercial building around here also has black bait station poison boxes outside, but that will also kill predators that eat the dying rats, so it’s a last resort only for me.  

The squirrels dig at the base of every newly planted palm, burying “old lady peanuts”, but haven’t caused much harm.  

The iguanas are the absolute worst though.  They eat almost every ornamental plant, and crush whatever they don’t eat with their 10lb+ bodies.  I’ve found the only solution for them is a pellet gun with a scope sighted in to a good grouping the size of a quarter at 20 yards.  They outnumber squirrels in the neighborhood 100 to 1.   They are an unrelenting vegetarian army of destruction.   

Or, you have to pay this lady….

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Looking Glass

[Kailua_Krish]

In Florida I would bet squirrels, same thing happened to me early on with hybrids none the less  

[sonoranfans]

Squirrels are the more efficient, more athletic rat.  Perhaps they chase the rats out, they are certainly capable of that.  Land was cleared by a development nearby and there was no habitat so the population fought it out.  They are pretty scary, viciously attacking in groups like war.  They actually eat most of the new live oak leaves every spring in the area behind my lot.  I used a few sonic rodent repellent devices while my seedlings were small.  Now they my containers are 5 gallon or larger I don't need them.   I had a little damage with one trying to make a nest in one of my kentiopsis and using the leaflets to do that.   

 

[Looking Glass]

1 minute ago, sonoranfans said:

Squirrels are the more efficient, more athletic rat.  Perhaps they chase the rats out, they are certainly capable of that.  Land was cleared by a development nearby and there was no habitat so the population fought it out.  They are pretty scary, viciously attacking in groups like war.  They actually eat most of the new live oak leaves every spring in the area behind my lot.  I used a few sonic rodent repellent devices while my seedlings were small.  Now they my containers are 5 gallon or larger I don't need them.   I had a little damage with one trying to make a nest in one of my kentiopsis and using the leaflets to do that.   

 

Day rats, vs night rats.  Squirrels nest and sleep in my Sable and the Chinese Fans out front.  They do strip palm fronds of their leaflets to make nests in my trees.  But they actually don’t do much damage after that here.  If you hold your fingers together like you have a treat, they will run up to you to demand it.  The old ladies feed them nuts, that they gladly accept and bury all over the place.  They also hunt big beetles in my grass and drink the nectar out of the White Birds of Paradise flowers, which I only noticed here.   The have litters and the babies chase each other along the tops of the fence, which my wife enjoys.   
 

They can cause major damage sometimes, but so far, I’ve lucked out here. 

[Tracy]

6 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

I don't like using poison. The huge trouble with poison is while it works, it can also poison other creatures either directly or by eating poisoned rodents. That's a big cause of death for mountain lions here in California. Rodents develop resistance, but the cats don't.

Another down side besides wildlife consuming the dead rodents is the possibility of domesticated animals consuming them and ingesting the poison second hand.  One of my neighbors put out poison near my rental.  The tenants at the time would leave their dog outside but the side garage door open all the time, because it was inside the fenced yard.  The rats got into the garage and found a little crack at the base of the drywall in the garage to squeeze into the space between the walls.  Perfect place for rats to go to die.  We ended up having to have the drywall cut into to find the stinky mess... all while vacationing in the homeland of Rhopalostylis sapida.  You don't want to be telling your neighbor about how you poisoned the rats that were eating your palm seedlings and find out that their pet cat died inside their garage after eating dead rats, or that the neighbor has this deathly smell coming from a crawl space. 

[Gottagrowemall]

This is what I did to start protecting my seedlings. I need to make a second box. Squirrels did mine in for sure, they love the heart of small palms 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Same thing happened to my 1-2 year old Trachycarpus in my greenhouse, and I know there were rats in there. 

[GottmitAlex]

You have no clue what feral cats did to my D. plumosa seedlings which @DoomsDave gifted me from seed.

The felines yanked, uprooted and killed their growing points because they had nothing else to do....

I have one left and it's growing nicely.

 

oh, the cats never messed with the coconut seedlings because baby cocos are huge compared to the blades of grass other palms are at the same age....

The rest is history...

[miamicuse]

Down here we have iguanas out of control.  My wife was so upset when one morning the iguanas ate all her orchids' new buds.  Dozens of orchids suffered the same fate.  She caught them in their acts.

[D Palm]

They are elevated, so probably not rabbits. I was up early headed to the airport last winter and spotted a dozen in my front yard. Came home to my Sabal Uresana gnawed to the ground, came back this spring. I guess they had blackberries in their dropping because this summer I had blackberry vines growing up my live oaks…nice treat. Probably some type of rodent, shiny wire deters a lot of them. Moth balls work too.

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, miamicuse said:

Down here we have iguanas out of control.  My wife was so upset when one morning the iguanas ate all her orchids' new buds.  Dozens of orchids suffered the same fate.  She caught them in their acts.

I retired 7-8 of the big ones between me and the neighbors yards and that helped lessen speed of the constant damage.  I still have 2-3 big ones to go, that are killing my crotons and variegated asiatic jasmine.  They are now wise to my game and sprint for dear life when they see me.   Today in desperation, I ran out and sprayed everything they are killing with a mixture of cayenne pepper, garlic powder and dilute dish soap in water.  Now the whole yard smells like a Greek salad.     

We went from having a couple around when we moved in, to a dozen huge ones, and this spring little babies hatched all over and did a number on every other plant the big ones ignore.  I had to remove stuff hoping they would go away, but they just attacked other plants instead.  

It's like, "Well, we prefer fancy, colorful ornamentals, but if all you have is some cheap bland bushes, we will just have to eat those to the ground instead!"  

It's also like having a big pack of dachshunds on your sun-warmed roof (if they find a pathway up there - and they climb rough stucco), using it as the pack's community toilet.   

Me in the yard most afternoons, as they scamper off......

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Looking Glass

[Victor G.]

My date palms got eaten by something too. I suspect tortoises, cause we had a few that have been eating out opuntia prickly pears too.

This is what I did: Surrounded the plant with this plastic fence. I won't stop aggresive intruders, but I guess it's better than nothing, right?

[Laaz]

Deer...

[Tyrone]

7 hours ago, Gottagrowemall said:

This is what I did to start protecting my seedlings. I need to make a second box. Squirrels did mine in for sure, they love the heart of small palms 

That’s exactly what I’ve done to protect my rare seedlings. If something gets through that you’ve got big problems, like wild boars or something. 

[sonoranfans]

A squirrel is a wild animal, when they get dependent on humans they will bring the battle to your turf for food should it become scarce.  They chewed through a ($2500 repair) computer wiring harness for the ECU of my daughters car, not covered on the warranty.  They were getting aggressive in my yard tearing into trash cans(lkittle holes in astic bags, not a dog.  They were also and belligerent with my small grandchildren so I banished them.  I would not use poison for the reasons stated.  First few years I used the rodent repellent untrasound devices with good success.  Now, my 17 month old 90 lb labrador retriever goes into "defcon 1" mode when he sees a squirrel.  He has come close, but he hasn't caught any(fortunately), but he has made the yard "off limits" to squirrels, as they don't like being chased by a good sized dog in defcon 1 mode.  I retired my sonic rodent repellent devices and the birds seem to be more prevalent now.  Nature has a balance that man disrupts, destruction of habitat, an all to easy source of food, and elimination of predators all contributes.  As populations grow, competition for food will be intensified.  I don't think you want a squirrel that fights its own kind every day for food and territory near your child or grandchild.  You can feed squirrels but then there is a dependency and a loss of skill in survival, gathering of natural food.  Squirrels and deer populations are probably way higher because of their dependence on man.  

[DoomsDave]

12 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

You have no clue what feral cats did to my D. plumosa seedlings which @DoomsDave gifted me from seed.

The felines yanked, uprooted and killed their growing points because they had nothing else to do....

I have one left and it's growing nicely.

 

oh, the cats never messed with the coconut seedlings because baby cocos are huge compared to the blades of grass other palms are at the same age....

The rest is history...

I have to tell everyone to watch out for cats and dogs regarding the new baby palms. Baby palms are pretty much grass with a bit more "beef" as it were, and cats and dogs love to eat grass and baby palms too. Once they grow a bit, though a bit of nibbling doesn't hurt. My four kitties just nibble a bit.

[DoomsDave]

I have a Jesuit bunny (I think) that sometimes nibbles on my baby Meyer lemon tree, but not on the palms. Yet. So far.

[Merlyn]

13 hours ago, Gottagrowemall said:

This is what I did to start protecting my seedlings. I need to make a second box. Squirrels did mine in for sure, they love the heart of small palms 

I did something similar for 1g community pots of seedlings.  I need to go and buy some finer mesh stuff, so I can make a big rectangular cage in my nursery area.  I'll just put my seedling pots on the pavers, and put the cage over the top.  Right now I'm using chicken wire, which has openings big enough for a squirrel to reach in and grab seeds.  They haven't tried yet...but I'm sure it'll happen soon!

[WaianaeCrider]

On 10/26/2021 at 5:53 AM, UK_Palms said:

I can’t say for sure, but I never trust slugs around palm seedlings anymore. Bigger palms seem to be fine, but I have caught slugs devouring smaller Phoenix and Chamaerops seedlings. They don’t seem to touch washingtonia though, although I wouldn’t put it beyond them. A lack of slime trails suggests it isn’t slugs in your case though. Maybe squirrels?

I've had slugs chewing on orchids in one of my screen houses.  Since that I've been tossing slug bait now and then around all 4 screen houses.

[Gottagrowemall]

20 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I did something similar for 1g community pots of seedlings.  I need to go and buy some finer mesh stuff, so I can make a big rectangular cage in my nursery area.  I'll just put my seedling pots on the pavers, and put the cage over the top.  Right now I'm using chicken wire, which has openings big enough for a squirrel to reach in and grab seeds.  They haven't tried yet...but I'm sure it'll happen soon!

My little palms in there are trying to grow through the chicken wire so I need to re strategize too. The new spears are going to get damaged trying to poke through the top. 

[Merlyn]

4 hours ago, Gottagrowemall said:

My little palms in there are trying to grow through the chicken wire so I need to re strategize too. The new spears are going to get damaged trying to poke through the top. 

You could probably just raise up your "roof" and wrap your chicken wire around the pot, to give the seedlings clearance.  I was thinking about doing something like yours, just maybe 1 foot above the top of the pot.

[Fallen Munk]

For anyone that has a problem with mice or rats and they avoid the common type of trap, get one of the electronic type.  I got a shocker trap and caught a whole bunch for about two weeks and now I only catch a couple per year.  Ridded my whole neighborhood of them with just one trap.  They are a bit more expensive, but 100 percent effective.

[Fishinsteeg234]

I had squirrels chew the hearts out of 27 seedlings on my outdoor grow table in one day this past summer….got pretty pissed. Some they just pulled half way out of the soil and left the roots to dry. I believe the squirrels were smelling the seeds in the soil and searching for a buried meal. I also switched to using a large clear Tupperware bin with mesh and clear hard top to help hold heat and humidity. 

[kinzyjr]

2 minutes ago, Fishinsteeg234 said:

I had squirrels chew the hearts out of 27 seedlings on my outdoor grow table in one day this past summer….got pretty pissed. Some they just pulled half way out of the soil and left the roots to dry. I believe the squirrels were smelling the seeds in the soil and searching for a buried meal. I also switched to using a large clear Tupperware bin with mesh and clear hard top to help hold heat and humidity. 

I share your pain.  I lost well over 100 seedlings to squirrels in the exact same manner this year.  A few were some really nice Veitchia arecina sprouts.

[Fishinsteeg234]

43 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

I share your pain.  I lost well over 100 seedlings to squirrels in the exact same manner this year.  A few were some really nice Veitchia arecina sprouts.

Yes Kinzyjr! Some were YOUR Archontophoenix seeds you shared with me a few months back! Along with Roystonea, carpentaria, Veitchia, Dypisos leptocheils and other seedlings….I think the clear storage bin method for seedlings is the way to go going forward for me to prevent this. 

 

 

 

[kinzyjr]

10 minutes ago, Fishinsteeg234 said:

Some were YOUR Archontophoenix seeds you shared with me a few months back! Along with Roystonea, carpentaria, Veitchia, Dypisos leptocheils and other seedlings….I think the clear storage bin method for seedlings is the way to go going forward for me to prevent this.

If you need more Archontophoenix, let me know.  I also have a few "squirrel-safe" Veitchias if you need.  Roystonea, well, it's a light year for those.  Don't currently have any in stock unfortunately.

[miamicuse]

I can't get the iguanas to come into my cage trap baited with bananas and strawberries.  They still go eat my wife's orchid buds.

[D Palm]

A good breed of dog could resolve the problem. My doston dog is a fierce rodent hunter. My basset hound just lays on the porch…and howls occasionally.

[Looking Glass]

15 hours ago, miamicuse said:

I can't get the iguanas to come into my cage trap baited with bananas and strawberries.  They still go eat my wife's orchid buds.

This week I basically made insecticidal soap and added cayenne pepper and garlic powder and sprayed my young crotons and jasmine.  It’s seems to work so far.  I don’t think they like the taste of burny and soapy, hot-sauce plants.  Needs reapplication after rain though.   

[miamicuse]

6 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

This week I basically made insecticidal soap and added cayenne pepper and garlic powder and sprayed my young crotons and jasmine.  It’s seems to work so far.  I don’t think they like the taste of burny and soapy, hot-sauce plants.  Needs reapplication after rain though.   

That is A LOT of work with how much it rains down here.

[Looking Glass]

5 hours ago, miamicuse said:

That is A LOT of work with how much it rains down here.

I was desperate.  Once these get a little bigger they can take more of a beating.  But right now they are getting murdered every day.  They don’t have enough leaves to survive the daily attacks yet. 

[tank]

Not sure if you've figured it out yet.

This may not be an issue in your location but deer also will take out small plants, often in one bite, down to the soil.  I had several mule seedlings wiped out by deer.  Each had 2-4 strap leaves.  They were set up in a row and had just been potted up to 3 gals.  Seems like the deer saw this as a buffet line and took out about 10 or so of the 20 that I had out.  Some of the casualties had a dent in the soil matching a deer muzzle in shape.

[palmfriend]

Hi,

I had a rat once in my house right after a very strong typhoon and it did the same to my 

young potted seedlings - ironically it just choose the rare ones...

However, I got rid of that problem but facing at the moment a real threat to my garden...

Came back from a family trip and immediately noticed this strange look of my P.

Pacifica. I pulled the smaller rocks away and found this one...

A Rinoceros beetle. 

At the moment they are attacking almost every palm in my garden, it is not nice to 

see well grown palms loosing fonds over and over again. 

I hope this Pritchardia  pulls through - I had the same problem with a very young 

D. leptocheilos  but it worked out fine - we will see. I hope for the best, fingers crossed.

 

Lars