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Livistona ID


kinzyjr

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Here's a very recent photo of the palm:

I was thinking it was one of these 3: Livistona australis, Livistona mariae, Livistona muelleri

20211017_174923_Livistona.jpg

  • Like 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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47 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Jonathon beat me to it.  Inflorescence and/or fruit will help verify.

The inflorescence was red with fruit that turn from red to black.  It's dark so I can't get a close-up photo with zoom right now.  The fruit are black and soft when ripe (left 2), shrink just a bit as they dry out (right two), the seed is surrounded by a brown layer that has the consistency of gingerbread (left) and seeds are small, brown, and germinate in 7-10 days.  Pic below:

20211017_204755_Fruit_Seeds_upl.jpg

20211017_204755_Fruit_Seeds_upl.jpg

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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20211017_204755_Fruit_Seeds_upl.jpg

I think you both nailed it in record time.  Before this, I was almost certain it was one of the multiple Livistona in the area.  After your suggestion, I looked up Saribus rotundifolia on Palmpedia and it looks very similar to the specimen down at the lake.

https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Saribus_rotundifolia

I think 10a or 10b might be a bit high for this palm though.  It has survived Jan. 2008/Jan. 2010/Jan. 2018 here - mid to upper 20s.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

I think 10a or 10b might be a bit high for this palm though.  It has survived Jan. 2008/Jan. 2010/Jan. 2018 here - mid to upper 20s.

There is one growing at a bank north of Brownsville, TX that survived 22F this past February. It will defoliate below upper 20s but seems to have some decent bud hardiness. 

  • Upvote 2

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

The inflorescence was red with fruit that turn from red to black.  It's dark so I can't get a close-up photo with zoom right now.  The fruit are black and soft when ripe (left 2), shrink just a bit as they dry out (right two), the seed is surrounded by a brown layer that has the consistency of gingerbread (left) and seeds are small, brown, and germinate in 7-10 days.  Pic below:

20211017_204755_Fruit_Seeds_upl.jpg

20211017_204755_Fruit_Seeds_upl.jpg

Yep, that's the "Footstool Palm"!  :greenthumb: Nice to know that it can handle some cold.  There was a young one planted outside at the San Antonio Botanical Garden when I moved here in mid 2017.  By the next spring it had been removed (no surprise).  20° was too much for a juvenile palm.

If it's any consolation it used to be classified as Livistona in the recent past.

Edited by Fusca
  • Upvote 1

Jon Sunder

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On 10/17/2021 at 11:00 PM, Fusca said:

Yep, that's the "Footstool Palm"!  :greenthumb: 

And to think I thought it was a small statured palm...:blink: 

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11 minutes ago, howfam said:

Kinzyjr: What town is the palm in this picture located?

This is in Lakeland, FL at the Lake Wire Palm Collection.  You can see the exact location on Google Street View.  I'll include a map below for those on phones that don't care

202110202100_LakeWireSaribusRotundifoliaLocation.jpg

7 minutes ago, Scott W said:

And to think I thought it was a small statured palm...:blink: 

They get huge... fast.

 

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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4 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

They get huge... fast.

Sadly the ones I had I killed about 15 years ago.  Recently bought Livistona benthamii to plant down near the river, where it gets tidal flooding, near where I planted my Saribus & Decaryi.  Time will tell of course if it survives....

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1 minute ago, Scott W said:

Sadly the ones I had I killed about 15 years ago.  Recently bought Livistona benthamii to plant down near the river, where it gets tidal flooding, near where I planted my Saribus & Decaryi.  Time will tell of course if it survives....

If you're really nice, @howfam might sell you a few ;)

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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3 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

If you're really nice, @howfam might sell you a few ;)

I'd be open to try it again, since I'm on what I consider a micro climate here in Jville....

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1 hour ago, Scott W said:

And to think I thought it was a small statured palm...:blink: 

I've always read how fast they grow even as seedlings, but I haven't really seen much speed with mine yet.  Some say one of the fastest palms.  This is my largest - two years since germination.  Nice shiny 5 strap leaves starting to show signs of going palmate soon.  Maybe it's faster in the ground?

 

IMG_20211020_211445.jpg

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Jon Sunder

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4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

This is in Lakeland, FL at the Lake Wire Palm Collection.  You can see the exact location on Google Street View.  I'll include a map below for those on phones that don't care

202110202100_LakeWireSaribusRotundifoliaLocation.jpg

They get huge... fast.

 

kinzyjr: Thanks for the Google maps. Very helpful in showing the location. I noticed a Livistona chinensis and L. decora close to the rotundifolius. Did you notice whether these two bloomed at the same time as the rotun.? If so, there is a chance for hybridization, which would be interesting in terms of hardiness since both of those palms are more hardy than the subject palm.  

Edited by howfam
Correct spelling error.
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21 hours ago, howfam said:

kinzyjr: Thanks for the Google maps. Very helpful in showing the location. I noticed a Livistona chinensis and L. decora close to the rotundifolius. Did you notice whether these two bloomed at the same time as the rotun.? If so, there is a chance for hybridization, which would be interesting in terms of hardiness since both of those palms are more hardy than the subject palm.  

There are actually three Livistona species pretty close by this palm.  The two species you mentioned are there along with Livistona saribus.  There is some potential for hybridization.  When I read your post, I did a quick search for intergeneric hybrids  (Saribus X Livistona or Livistona X Saribus) and then another search for "interspecific" hybrids using the old Livistona rotundifolia name with other members of that genus.  Both searches came up empty.  If anyone has one of these hybrids, please chime in.  I wouldn't put any money on it, but the closest species as far as flowering time this year was Livistona saribus.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

There are actually three Livistona species pretty close by this palm.  The two species you mentioned are there along with Livistona saribus.  There is some potential for hybridization.  When I read your post, I did a quick search for intergeneric hybrids  (Saribus X Livistona or Livistona X Saribus) and then another search for "interspecific" hybrids using the old Livistona rotundifolia name with other members of that genus.  Both searches came up empty.  If anyone has one of these hybrids, please chime in.  I wouldn't put any money on it, but the closest species as far as flowering time this year was Livistona saribus.

It would be interesting to see L. saribus hybridize with rotundifolius or other Livistona species. I've always wondered whether those huge spines on L. saribus would come through in a hybrid or are the large spines a recessive trait. 

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