Due to the conditions of less continuous heat, and colder, which one grows better?

 

Specific, 8b

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by Peachs

Could depend on several factors. .  More than likely - Washingtonia’ ‘filibusta’ . Some 8bs could grow things like Bismarkia nobilis or Phoenix canariensis for many years, however - which can be just as fast. 

25 minutes ago, RyManUtah said:

Could depend on several factors. .  More than likely - Washingtonia’ ‘filibusta’ . Some 8bs could grow things like Bismarkia nobilis or Phoenix canariensis for many years, however - which can be just as fast. 

I update, dry climate, not humid, far from the coast.  I believe that all Washintonias are hybrids, but choosing the right one with the rapidity of growth of W. robusta and the hardiness of filifera is difficult.

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Can't forget about Butiagrus Nabonnandii  

However some may argue this is not necessarily an 8b palm

13 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

Can't forget about Butiagrus Nabonnandii  

However some may argue this is not necessarily an 8b palm

The Mule palm tree I think without problems in zone 8. 

Here in southeastern England it has to go to Washingtonia Robusta, Filibusta or Filifera. I know of a lot of specimens that have gone from 3 foot in height up to 30 foot in height within a decade. I’m only 8b here in the rural countryside, but central London is a solid 9b most years. London City airport has been 10a during 2 of the past 3 winters. CIDP is the second fastest grower, followed by Trachycarpus Fortunei in 3rd. I suspect growth rates are about the same in both of our locations. 

30 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Here in southeastern England it has to go to Washingtonia Robusta, Filibusta or Filifera. I know of a lot of specimens that have gone from 3 foot in height up to 30 foot in height within a decade. I’m only 8b here in the rural countryside, but central London is a solid 9b most years. London City airport has been 10a during 2 of the past 3 winters. CIDP is the second fastest grower, followed by Trachycarpus Fortunei in 3rd. I suspect growth rates are about the same in both of our locations. 

W. Robusta in zone 8 survives without great damage?  I guess all those palm trees really are Filibustas.

The key I suppose is to plant a large one in the ground.

58 minutes ago, Peachs said:

W. Robusta in zone 8 survives without great damage?  I guess all those palm trees really are Filibustas.

The key I suppose is to plant a large one in the ground.

I planted my Robusta last spring, but I saw -11C as recently as February 2018 (coldest in my lifetime) when central London only saw -6C. So it’s a bit risky here in my 8b zone with no UHI. Probably similar to you. I’m hoping this coming winter is mild one while it settles in. Usually I go down to about -5C once or twice each winter.

I know the Robusta’s in London and on the south coast of England took no damage last winter. They looked surprisingly good despite it being quite a bad winter for us in Western Europe. I know Madrid had a bad freeze too, certainly worse than London. Did the Robusta’s and CIDP survive in Madrid?

I agree that planting big definitely helps in our less than ideal locations. Although the big washingtonia and CIDP’s in London and south coast were all planted tiny. This one looks like a Robusta and was planted around 1 foot tall almost a decade ago. It’s probably located in a 9a zone though, maybe even 9b nowadays. Hard to judge with climate change. 

19 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I planted my Robusta last spring, but I saw -11C as recently as February 2018 (coldest in my lifetime) when central London only saw -6C. So it’s a bit risky here in my 8b zone with no UHI. Probably similar to you. I’m hoping this coming winter is mild one while it settles in. Usually I go down to about -5C once or twice each winter.

I know the Robusta’s in London and on the south coast of England took no damage last winter. They looked surprisingly good despite it being quite a bad winter for us in Western Europe. I know Madrid had a bad freeze too, certainly worse than London. Did the Robusta’s and CIDP survive in Madrid?

I agree that planting big definitely helps in our less than ideal locations. Although the big washingtonia and CIDP’s in London and south coast were all planted tiny. This one looks like a Robusta and was planted around 1 foot tall almost a decade ago. It’s probably located in a 9a zone though, maybe even 9b nowadays. Hard to judge with climate change. 

In my area, Salamanca (Castilla y León), the lowest temperatures were -8 ° (I have never seen less temperature than that ...).  In my area there are only T. Fortunei, so I have no references ...

15 minutes ago, Peachs said:

In my area, Salamanca (Castilla y León), the lowest temperatures were -8 ° (I have never seen less temperature than that ...).  In my area there are only T. Fortunei, so I have no references ...

If -8C is the lowest you have seen I am fairly sure that Robusta, Filibusta, Filifera and CIDP would all survive for you. Obviously Salamanca is warmer than southern England, although your winter nights appear a bit colder. Central London hasn’t been below -6C / -7C since 1987 I believe. Wikipedia says Salamanca has been as cold as -20C before. Any idea what year that was?

Also have you got any news on the Madrid Robusta’s and CIDP’s following last winter’s -12C freeze? If they survived, that is a good indicator for you, since you are milder than Madrid. 

36 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

If -8C is the lowest you have seen I am fairly sure that Robusta, Filibusta, Filifera and CIDP would all survive for you. Obviously Salamanca is warmer than southern England, although your winter nights appear a bit colder. Central London hasn’t been below -6C / -7C since 1987 I believe. Wikipedia says Salamanca has been as cold as -20C before. Any idea what year that was?

Also have you got any news on the Madrid Robusta’s and CIDP’s following last winter’s -12C freeze? If they survived, that is a good indicator for you, since you are milder than Madrid. 

In Madrid city, I don't think the temperature was -12 °, in my area -8 ° only happens 3-4 days a year, at night but in Spain there are many hours of sunshine and the temperatures increase very quickly during the day.
 

Do you think a Filibusta grows faster and recovers better than a mule palm?
 

 

It was -12C on the outskirts of Madrid. I actually screenshotted it as we were discussing it on the European forum. San Martin de La Vega went down to -12C and they have lots of big CIDP’s, washies and Butia’s there. I wonder if they pulled through?

Madrid itself got hit pretty bad by the snow. No idea what survived at the subtropical gardens? I am yet to see any updates on the CIDP’s and Washies. I’m guessing it wasn’t anywhere near as bad for you guys in Salamanca? 

 

Filibusta’s will definitely recover quicker than a mule palm. The big Filibusta’s in London put out about 15-20 fronds a year. I wouldn’t expect more than about 5 fronds on a big mule palm, but due to our colder winters in our locations I am not sure if they will be able to replenish their growth during the summer months, especially after a bad winter. I would definitely go with Filibusta over a mule in your location. 

54 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

It was -12C on the outskirts of Madrid. I actually screenshotted it as we were discussing it on the European forum. San Martin de La Vega went down to -12C and they have lots of big CIDP’s, washies and Butia’s there. I wonder if they pulled through?

Madrid itself got hit pretty bad by the snow. No idea what survived at the subtropical gardens? I am yet to see any updates on the CIDP’s and Washies. I’m guessing it wasn’t anywhere near as bad for you guys in Salamanca? 

 

Filibusta’s will definitely recover quicker than a mule palm. The big Filibusta’s in London put out about 15-20 fronds a year. I wouldn’t expect more than about 5 fronds on a big mule palm, but due to our colder winters in our locations I am not sure if they will be able to replenish their growth during the summer months, especially after a bad winter. I would definitely go with Filibusta over a mule in your location. 

The cold was much harsher in Madrid than in Salamanca, but I don't know if it affected the palm trees.  I have a Filifera and it went through the winter with almost no damage ... The problem is ... how do I buy a Filibusta?  Would you know how to differentiate them?  The one in the image above is Robusta?

1 hour ago, Peachs said:

The cold was much harsher in Madrid than in Salamanca, but I don't know if it affected the palm trees.  I have a Filifera and it went through the winter with almost no damage ... The problem is ... how do I buy a Filibusta?  Would you know how to differentiate them?  The one in the image above is Robusta?

The big one by the pool is a Robusta in Earls Court, London that was planted small around 2009 I think. I have seen other pictures of it and it is definitely a Robusta with a very thin trunk. If you type “Penywern Garden London” into Google images it will come up. These pictures are a few years old now. 

I think whatever washingtonia that you buy, chances are it is going to be a hybrid to some degree. It is extremely hard to get pure Robusta and pure Filifera these days. If it looks kind of like a Filifera but has some red present on the petiole bases, it will be a hybrid Filibusta. If you buy washingtonia seeds online they will almost certainly be hybridised to some degree. Of course they may be Robusta dominant hybrids or a Filifera dominant hybrids. Hard to tell. 

22 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

The big one by the pool is a Robusta in Earls Court, London that was planted small around 2009 I think. I have seen other pictures of it and it is definitely a Robusta with a very thin trunk. If you type “Penywern Garden London” into Google images it will come up. These pictures are a few years old now. 

I think whatever washingtonia that you buy, chances are it is going to be a hybrid to some degree. It is extremely hard to get pure Robusta and pure Filifera these days. If it looks kind of like a Filifera but has some red present on the petiole bases, it will be a hybrid Filibusta. If you buy washingtonia seeds online they will almost certainly be hybridised to some degree. Of course they may be Robusta dominant hybrids or a Filifera dominant hybrids. Hard to tell. 

I mean the photo in message 3, Robusta or Filibusta?

20 minutes ago, Peachs said:

I mean the photo in message 3, Robusta or Filibusta?

Sorry, the one you posted is almost impossible to tell at that size. The deep green fronds and lack of fibres make it look very Robusta-like, but it could easily be a hybrid. Usually Filibusta trunks are sloping as well, like much fatter at the base and skinnier at the top, but it can vary. It’s probably a Robusta dominant hybrid. It will look very much like a Robusta but would have a bit more cold-hardiness. It could be a pure Robusta though, but it’s more than likely Filibusta. 

13 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Sorry, the one you posted is almost impossible to tell at that size. The deep green fronds and lack of fibres make it look very Robusta-like, but it could easily be a hybrid. Usually Filibusta trunks are sloping as well, like much fatter at the base and skinnier at the top, but it can vary. It’s probably a Robusta dominant hybrid. It will look very much like a Robusta but would have a bit more cold-hardiness. It could be a pure Robusta though, but it’s more than likely Filibusta. 

I will get lots of good quality photos, thank you!