Italy Spain France

[mediterraneo puro]

I observed that in the neighboring Italian and French Riviera and in most coastal mediterranean Spanish coast there is an incredible concentration of palm trees of any type and a lot of older ones (judging from the size) and all of them very well kept. While in the Italian peninsular coast including islands (Sardinia, Sicily) etc there are not as many and as old except for some parts of the main cities. Mind you, ther are a lot of palm trees in Italy, but nothing compared to the above mentioned areas. How can we explain that considering that it can't be depending on climate, Italy goes as far south as Spain and way more south than the northern Italian riviera/French riviera. Is it a money thing? Italia and French riviera are and have been very rich for a long time(for Spain I would imagine it is an investment made for  luring northerners in go where the palms thrive and giving the illusion of a tropical Paradise).

What is your opinion?

Thanks

Edited August 18, 2021 by mediterraneo puro
synthax corrections

[Darold Petty]

Welcome to Palmtalk !  

[sonoranfans]

Welcome to palmtalk.  If its not weather, it might be the red palm weevil which came from asia.  It just destroys palms and now is in 60 countries.  Italy may have been hit before france and spain since it came from asia, but it is in france and spain now.  Perhaps some of our european members can answer more accurately.  

[Darold Petty]

We toured southern Italy in 2013, and the weevil damage was already extensive.  At the train station in the town of Amalfi there was a row of 6 or 8 stumps where mature Phoenix canariensis had been removed.  Here is a town view, and a palm not yet removed.  

 

[Darold Petty]

Looking at the first image more closely, I believe that the low, silver roofed structure is the train platform,

and that the row of palms had been on the inland side, and that the row was the length of the platform.

[pietropuccio]

It is strange that an Italian is asking this question, the answer is very simple and has already been given. The RPW acted undisturbed for months, first in Sicily and then in southern Italy, before being identified and the countermeasures began to be studied. The French and Italian coasts and Spain took advantage of this and were able to implement measures to limit the damage. The beetle continues its work of destruction, just in these days a Livistona lanuginosa suddenly collapsed in my garden.

[petiole10]

There is no doubt a tourist element to the prevalence of palms as an attractor in well known sun-trap destinations in the Mediterranean regions.  But as Phoenix canariensis succumb in such huge numbers to the RPW then there has been quite a shift to planting Washingtonia which don't seem to be as susceptible to the weevil as the Phoenix.

Certainly around here in Portugal , and in my own locality which is an hour inland away from the coast (and where tourists are certainly not found) there are a lot of large Washingtonia trees and more and more being planted by local camaras (councils) all the time to replace instead of the canariensis palm. It seems to be filifera, more than robusta, which is most resistant to the weevil and I think that this example is being copied in more and more parts of southern Europe

These palms are also not expensive at all to grow and plant en masse - as it is, I probably have enough Washingtonia seedlings continually sprouting c/o two very tall parents in my own garden to supply the district  I live in as a give-away 

 

[sonoranfans]

1 hour ago, petiole10 said:

There is no doubt a tourist element to the prevalence of palms as an attractor in well known sun-trap destinations in the Mediterranean regions.  But as Phoenix canariensis succumb in such huge numbers to the RPW then there has been quite a shift to planting Washingtonia which don't seem to be as susceptible to the weevil as the Phoenix.

Certainly around here in Portugal , and in my own locality which is an hour inland away from the coast (and where tourists are certainly not found) there are a lot of large Washingtonia trees and more and more being planted by local camaras (councils) all the time to replace instead of the canariensis palm. It seems to be filifera, more than robusta, which is most resistant to the weevil and I think that this example is being copied in more and more parts of southern Europe

These palms are also not expensive at all to grow and plant en masse - as it is, I probably have enough Washingtonia seedlings continually sprouting c/o two very tall parents in my own garden to supply the district  I live in as a give-away 

 

Glad to hear filiferas are resistant and being used more.  They are grand palms themselves in maturity.  How about jubaea and jubaea hybrids any word on whether they are resistant?   They might be used occasionally to  break things up a bit.  They can have a nice sized pinnate crown.

[UK_Palms]

While Filifera’s resist the palm weevil far better than stuff like CIDP and Dacty’s, there are still countless examples of Filifera being attacked and killed. The same with Chamaerops. They seem to have a preference for Phoenix palms, but will burrow into just about any palm and lay their eggs, including Trachycarpus AND Filifera. Just be warned…

Here you can see a Washingtonia that has been attacked, while the CIDP behind it is still okay…

[mediterraneo puro]

4 hours ago, pietropuccio said:

It is strange that an Italian is asking this question, the answer is very simple and has already been given. The RPW acted undisturbed for months, first in Sicily and then in southern Italy, before being identified and the countermeasures began to be studied. The French and Italian coasts and Spain took advantage of this and were able to implement measures to limit the damage. The beetle continues its work of destruction, just in these days a Livistona lanuginosa suddenly collapsed in my garden.

You say that (I am ot an expert) the red weevil affected Italy more than Spain and France? I did not know that and I thought that the red weevil appeared first in Spain. But, for what I see (just my visual impression)around it makes sense that the red weevil destroyed more palms than anywhere else in Italy, in fact you can see tons of dead palms in Italy while in Spain not, it makes you almost think that it was a boycott organized by the other med countries to hit Italy's tourism (JK)

Edited August 19, 2021 by mediterraneo puro
.

[petiole10]

3 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Glad to hear filiferas are resistant and being used more.  They are grand palms themselves in maturity.  How about jubaea and jubaea hybrids any word on whether they are resistant?   They might be used occasionally to  break things up a bit.  They can have a nice sized pinnate crown.

Jubaea are quite susceptible,, as are others  that can be attacked sometimes like Trachycarpus, Bismarkia, Brahea and Butia.   In fact many trunking palms especially with a fibrous covering prove vulnerable to the weevil burrowing and laying eggs within, and the nature of the trunk outer fibre makes it hard to see them once they start to enter a host tree..  As with Washingtonia filifera there is some study into the resistance of Chamaerops to RPW. but there is nothing confidently proven In general though, any palm of various species, but more especially CIDP, in a weakened or damaged state is an invite to RPW.

Keeping them well watered and fertilized in countries where the weevil is prevalent, (along with regular preventative treatment applications) is the better advice that can be given.

Its worth bearing in mind that not all palms which collapse this way are the result of RPW. The Paysandisia moth equally can produce results very similar to RPW and these are inclined to attack palm species that the RPW may show less interest in. Washingtonia and Chamaerops being too good examples

Edited August 19, 2021 by petiole10