What NOT to do

[Cindy Adair]

In my defense, I did not ask for the seeds nor have any proper place to put them. 

I was on a private plant collector’s 25 acre estate when the owner asked for help identifying a palm.  

It did not grab my attention among many amazing plants of all kinds and was hard to photograph. I can’t even be sure this is the donor tree.

I and others voiced a few guesses and then the owner decided we should germinate some seeds. I was selected to do the honors and share any seedlings.

So the fruit went into a pocket of my pants to be unceremoniously dumped out this morning into a cup to which I added water. I had planned to let time clean the fruit.

I had forgotten which tree the seeds were from and was thinking about other gift seeds when I absentmindedly squeezed some of the red pulp off several fruits.

And felt the sting!

Nothing like pain/itch to jog my memory that these were probably from an Arenga or Wallichia and I should have worn gloves due to the oxalates!

Definitely the least intelligent thing I did today!

I tried washing with dishwashing detergent followed by Benadryl cream and then hydrocortisone but really only rubbing the cream in or later just keeping my hand under running water and waiting brought relief. 
 

It took about 1.5 hours to be totally fine and I never had any visible changes in my skin.

Next time I will remember to wear gloves with Caryota, Wallichia and Arenga fruit cleaning for sure!

And to always bring options for seed storage with identification on any garden tour, just in case the owner volunteers seed.

 

[Palmarum]

Burn...

A lesson has been learned. Not to belittle your experience, but I have seen even worse reactions, Some included a body-wide allergic reaction, others were a hand that inflated to twice its normal size, etc. Always wear gloves when handling any plant material, even with material you are used to and familiar with. Handling pulp, fruit, sawdust, sap, etc. with dry hands is one thing, but do it again with sweaty, wet hands can be a whole lot worse.

If you are soaking seed, fruit or material in water (as in a bucket) make sure your gloves are long enough to cover your arm as you reach to the bottom. I have seen the 'full dunk' result in a glove back-filling with a now caustic solution, only to have the user struggle to remove a wet, burning glove while not knowing what is happening.

A move done by a few over-eager volunteers at a workday only to have it end as their last workday.

Some of the worst that come to mind include:

- a five-gallon bucket, filled with Arenga sp. fruit and water that had soaked overnight. The solution was as close to being super saturated as possible, and warm. Volunteer places her bare hand into the water to grab the seed, stops, then removes hand which was now instantly red, from the water line near the wrist to her finger tips... She was not a fan of palms from then on.

- garden tour, a group of somewhat rowdy tour-goers, not quite inebriated but working on it, being guided through the palm collection. One said tour goer decided to swipe some rare seed and stash it in his shorts... not the method of transport I'd recommend. Minutes go by, fruit begins to mix with moisture, pain out-does the alcohol, tour comes to an end as sideshow begins.

- not one I witnessed first hand, but saw the result. Collector trims his Black Sapote Tree, Diospyros nigra. Cutting branches, big and small no problems at first. Day gets hot, said collector begins to sweat, the sawdust from the Black Sapote mixes with the sweat and causes a massive chemical reaction. Large eruptions and painful blisters form all over their legs (might have been arms and legs, don't remember) Even days after it happened, the large blisters looked like makeup from a horror movie. It was bad. I should have photographed it, but I did not, as I was in shock.

Ryan

[Cindy Adair]

Great stories Ryan! Looks like I got off easy!

I do wear always gloves working outside, but not generally in my kitchen.
 

In fact my glove collection hanging on my porch is often a source of amusement to visitors.

Also I am in the process of figuring out how to safely process my cashew nut bounty as shown in the drying process below.

The chemical inside is definitely toxic!

Take heed and be careful with seed handling!

[kinzyjr]

When the CFPACS members toured the Ford and Edison Estates, the tour guide told us that several of their volunteers suffered reactions similar to the ones @Palmarum described just from Arenga engleri flowering.  Apparently they were sensitive to the pollen. 

[KDubU]

Sorry to read about this Meg, sounds painful but will thank you for educating this newbie. Did not realize some palm seeds can do. 

[redant]

2 hours ago, Cindy Adair said:

Great stories Ryan! Looks like I got off easy!

I do wear always gloves working outside, but not generally in my kitchen.
 

In fact my glove collection hanging on my porch is often a source of amusement to visitors.

Also I am in the process of figuring out how to safely process my cashew nut bounty as shown in the drying process below.

The chemical inside is definitely toxic!

Take heed and be careful with seed handling!

my neighbor has a cashew tree, I suddenly became more aware of how time consuming it must be to make a sack of cashews 

[mike in kurtistown]

Actually, i have cleaned Caryota seeds with the "working side" of my fingers without noticeable effect, but when I got some pulp on the back of my hand, it stung for a while, but not too bad.

[Palmarum]

1 hour ago, mike in kurtistown said:

Actually, i have cleaned Caryota seeds with the "working side" of my fingers without noticeable effect, but when I got some pulp on the back of my hand, it stung for a while, but not too bad.

If anyone has 'heavy duty' hands with thick skin, more power to you. I have seen callouses protect those fortunate from even the harshest Ptychosperma and Caryota fruit attack.

I remember one incident, years ago involving a Forum member who is an auto mechanic. We were working with different seeds and the group members began to start getting irritation. So we all stopped, while the Forum member kept on cleaning seed, with no irritation at all, like acid-proof, armor.

Ryan

[Kim]

Excellent reminder about handling unfamiliar plant parts!  I haven’t had much experience handling seeds. Cindy, sorry you had to suffer so to bring about this reminder! 

[John hovancsek]

I put some caryota seeds in my pocket when I first started collecting.. let’s just say I had a bad day

[NOT A TA]

Pretty sure I poisoned myself cleaning Adonidia merrillii seeds for several hours in buckets of water bare handed.  Ambulance ride to the hospital several hours after I finished heart rate dropped to 35 and body temp to 95 F. Was shivering so hard I was bouncing off the table in the ambulance & ER. They had to strap me down and kept putting hot blankets on me for hours in the ER. Spent the next few days in the hospital and got an enormous bill I'll never be able to finish paying off since I don't play the lottery. Worst thing was I KNOW BETTER, but was out of latex gloves and figured nothing would happen.

 

[Cindy Adair]

7 hours ago, NOT A TA said:

Pretty sure I poisoned myself cleaning Adonidia merrillii seeds for several hours in buckets of water bare handed.  Ambulance ride to the hospital several hours after I finished heart rate dropped to 35 and body temp to 95 F. Was shivering so hard I was bouncing off the table in the ambulance & ER. They had to strap me down and kept putting hot blankets on me for hours in the ER. Spent the next few days in the hospital and got an enormous bill I'll never be able to finish paying off since I don't play the lottery. Worst thing was I KNOW BETTER, but was out of latex gloves and figured nothing would happen.

 

Wow! I missed your earlier topic. So glad you are OK!

The stories here might save someone else from the relatively minor and short lived pain I felt or the severe issues you and others have suffered. Thanks everyone.
 

[Valhallalla]

As I've mentioned in another thread, I don't seem to be particularly sensitive to to the calcium oxalate crystals in palm seeds at least on the "working side". I've never handled buckets full so the less hardy side might be more sensitive. I have had a bad reaction to a compound from other plants though.

Shortly after Hurricane Wilma passed through here in 2005 I began experiencing an itching burning rash on both of my feet. I had no idea what it was so I tried treating it as if it were athletes foot because I have never had that before either. A few days later my hands also became irritated but not quite as severely as my feet. The athletes foot treatments weren't working.

After Googling around some (with dial up connection, lol) I figured out the cause.  After the storm there was a lot of tree and plant debris to clean up. I had been raking up leaves and small branches in the service alley behind our house. My neighbor across the alley has a large mango tree and many of the leaves and branches were from that tree. It turns out that the mango leaves, bark and skin of the fruit contain urushiol which is the same irritating compound found in poison ivy and poison oak. Apparently some bits and pieces of leaves and bark of the mango tree had found their way into my shoes (no socks) and work gloves and then got thoroughly rubbed into the skin on my hands and feet as I worked.

Things cleared up after a week or so of nasty burning and itching feet and hands. It wasn't a lot of fun since my work was with my hands while being on my feet (Ryan, were you referring to me?). While the pulp of mango fruit does not contain urushiol I still have never eaten a mango.

[realarch]

I’ve found that cleaning Drymophloeus oliviformis was particularly painful. After prepping five or six fruits, the burn began. It lasted for hours. Way worse than my experience with Arenga hookeriana. 

Live and learn. 

Tim

[Palmarum]

Just now, Valhallalla said:

... Things cleared up after a week or so of nasty burning and itching feet and hands. It wasn't a lot of fun since my work was with my hands while being on my feet (Ryan, were you referring to me?). While the pulp of mango fruit does not contain urushiol I still have never eaten a mango.

Lol, yes. That was a fun palm society work day. I figured if you read it you might have other stories to add, and you did.

My uncle is extremely allergic to mangoes and all their relatives, he can't touch fruit, tree parts, etc. I had to yell at him once as he was about to try Cashew Fruit without knowing the relativity with mangoes. I almost got to smack the food out of his hand, but he stopped in time. Oh well.

Ryan

[NOT A TA]

I found out after years of getting an annoying rash on the tender skin on the inside of my forearms etc. that Oysters, Tradescantia spathacea a common landscape plant in S FL had been causing it. I'd thought it was from one of the various "weeds" I'd been pulling.

[Cindy Adair]

I will add that the vanilla orchid vine (when cut) causes a rather dramatic rash on my face with swelling that closes my eyes   requiring prednisone to counter.

Quite the challenge to diagnose in Virginia. Well known by growers in Puerto Rico. 

I can touch uncut surfaces of vanilla vine and eat vanilla extract and handle flowers and pods with no issues.
 

I handle cashew fruit (to separate it from the nuts) and pick up stray mangoes with gloved hands and no issues. I did learn that cashew apple juice stains clothing.
 

Wow Tim, I had no idea about Drymophloeus as a potential problem fruit! Hopefully I will remember if I have seeds from my many palms of this genus. Thanks for the heads up!

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

On 5/31/2021 at 12:06 AM, Palmarum said:

One said tour goer decided to swipe some rare seed and stash it in his shorts... not the method of transport I'd recommend. Minutes go by, fruit begins to mix with moisture, pain out-does the alcohol, tour comes to an end as sideshow begins.

I got to get in on one of these palm tours haha. Drunk palm seed thief gets there do justice  

T J