Serpentine soil

[Gbarce]

If a palm you like is said to grow in serpentine soils (like copernicia cowelii or coccothrinax moaensis) will it be harmful to the plant if you grow it in ordinary run of the mill soil?

Will it eventually just die a slow death becuase serpentine soil conditions are so extreme that the plants adapted to it will just not be able to cope?

I have been trying to read up on it and basically what I understand  is:

1) it has very little nutrients

2) either very alkaline or very acidic

3)  has a lot of heavy metals- magnesium, iron etc...

4) does not hold water very well

Is there are way to replicate this type of soil-- what combination of media shoud I use in the mix?

Can adding some fertilizer with trace elements be enough to grow the plants healthy?

Thanks in advance.

[Dave-Vero]

Serpentine is one of a bunch of "ultramafic" rocks that are low in silica, high in magnesium and iron (i.e. MgFe).  They're similar to rock that comprises the Earth's mantle.  Serpentine is toxic to most plants, so those plants that can live on it sort of have the area to themselves.  New Caledonia is famed for its serpentine, which makes for a lucrative mining industry, and which has also provided a sort of refuge for the island's amazing flora, which includes some very basal ("primitive") flowering plants.

Here's a link to a famous serpentine barren in Maryland, USA:  [L=http://www.mgs.md.gov/esic/features/soldiers.html]Soldiers Delight  

California also has a lot of serpentine barrens, as does Sabah.  

I think most serpentine-related plants will grow well under normal conditions, but they perhaps would need to be checked for iron and magesium nutrition.

[Gbarce]

Do Copernicia Cowelii need any special soil addatives?  i read that they grow in very serpentine soils.

Is there a serpentile soil mix that's commercially available?

Anyone know?

[Kris]

Dear Gene  

you have 2 options either dig out the soil and replace it with

high quality soil mix,the ditch can be as per your palms grouth

rate and its height.this is what i did in my place...

another method is built a small box preferablly using concreat

slabs and fill it with good potting soil and place your plant in them but the container bottom must be open to your serpentine soil.the size of this box depends on what plant goes in to that container.

love,

Kris  

[Carlo Morici]

I have some experience with serpentine, as I spent various weeks over various trips looking for palms around the "mining region" of Moa in Cuba and I have been browsing the New Caledonian serpentine areas too.

"Bienvenidos a la tierra de los hombres del niquel - Welcome to the land of the men of nickel", says the sign at the entrance of Moa. "Nickel and Palms" would be a better guess because so many palm species are endemic to the serpentines around Moa.

It is not easy to explain or understand the charachteristics of the serpentine soils because there are many different kinds of them and so many different adaptations in the plant species native to these areas.

As for growing the palms out of the serpentine, you never know until you try. Coccothrinax moaensis and Bactris cubensis palms do live together in Moa. Coccothrinax moaensis is one of the easiest and can grow in any "normal" soil while the Bactris is an ungrowable species that often dies just because.

A quick and cheap way to simulate serpentine is to add any metal, a few iron nails mixed in the substrate can make a miracle. "Finger-crossing" is also needed, as I know of no thecnical paper about growing serpentine-palms in cultivation.

Carlo. from Sicily

[SunnyFl]

(Carlo Morici @ Aug. 08 2007,15:10)

QUOTE

I have some experience with serpentine, as I spent various weeks over various trips looking for palms around the "mining region" of Moa in Cuba and I have been browsing the New Caledonian serpentine areas too.

"Bienvenidos a la tierra de los hombres del niquel - Welcome to the land of the men of nickel", says the sign at the entrance of Moa. "Nickel and Palms" would be a better guess because so many palm species are endemic to the serpentines around Moa.

It is not easy to explain or understand the charachteristics of the serpentine soils because there are many different kinds of them and so many different adaptations in the plant species native to these areas.

As for growing the palms out of the serpentine, you never know until you try. Coccothrinax moaensis and Bactris cubensis palms do live together in Moa. Coccothrinax moaensis is one of the easiest and can grow in any "normal" soil while the Bactris is an ungrowable species that often dies just because.

A quick and cheap way to simulate serpentine is to add any metal, a few iron nails mixed in the substrate can make a miracle. "Finger-crossing" is also needed, as I know of no thecnical paper about growing serpentine-palms in cultivation.

Carlo. from Sicily

Did you happen to bring any palms/seeds back with you?

Thanks for the suggestion - I have a palm that RLR said comes from a serpentine soil - I want to be very sure to give it an appropriate growing medium.  But I had no idea what "serpentine" was.

Dave, thanks to you also, I'll check for signs of iron and magnesium deficiency and try to amend the soil as Carlo suggested.

[Dave-Vero]

Dolomite (magneslium carbonate) might be a useful soil amendment.

Thanks to Carlo for reporting on the big Cuban serpentine areas.

[Carlo Morici]

I brought many seeds back from my trips to Eastern Cuba, in 1995, 1996, 1998 and 2003. Most of them were sown in Tenerife, at the Palmetum in Santa Cruz and some were shipped to other botanic gardens throughout the world. Few of them survived, but I am regrettably unable to state when and why, because many of them just died for neglect, during the bad years of the Palmetum. So these are far from being called "results", but here are some notes of my sad experiences. At least there is something left alive.

Bactris cubensis never passed its second year.  It quickly died after yellowing and burning - it surely needed "something".

Hemithrinax rivularis (both H. r. ssp. rivularis and H. r. ssp. savannarum) also had a hard time, with serious yellowing that improved after iron applications. 10 years to achieve 10 cm.

The Estern Cuban form of Copernicia rigida (restricted to serpentine) never showed any noticeable problem, but it took 12 years to produce 1 m long leaves. It is still alive and "kicking" in the grounds and the Palmetum.

This is also the case of most Coccothrinax species (i.e. C. moaensis, C.orientalis, C.pauciramosa, C. nipensis ...). There is nothing comparable to a trunk after 10 years, they are doubtlessly the slowest of the genus.

This is all from the tip of my mind. I also germinated zillions of non-palm species, such as Dracaena cubensis or many Bignoniaceae. Some would grow, some would die, but many of the survivors were subsequently killed by drought and neglect in the following years.

Moa and Nipe host the oldest and most extreme serpentines of Cuba. The serpentine areas in Central Cuba (where Copernicia cowelli is from) are much younger and less extreme as for their content in unusual soil elements.

The serpentine regions of Cuba and N Caledonia are ecologically referred to as islands within islands: the flora is composed by highly isolated species that evolved far away from the mainstreams of predation and competition. In short words, they are slow and hard to grow endemics.

In the 80's the Jardín Botánico Nacional in La Habana "transplanted" a whole serpentine ecosystem for didactical purposes. They brought into the garden hundreds of trucks with serpentine soil from the closest serpentine area . Then they transplanted adult palms and trees, shrubs, weeds and all. That was their solution and it worked. Not for the average palm gardener!

Carlo

[Carlo Morici]

Check this old posting about the Copernicia from Moa, from our older forum.

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....3;&#top

And one picture from that thread:

Carlo

[Gbarce]

Thank you so much for all the information and insight on this very specialized subject!!!

If I am going to try to replicate a soil mix I should avoid organic materials and go more for "mineral" based media like sand and pebbles mixed with garden soil?

[Moose]

Check this old posting about the Copernicia from Moa, from our older forum.

http://palmtalk.org/...-bin....3;

And one picture from that thread:

Carlo

Great photo of a rare palm. A photo from our old forum.Worthy of a bump! Copernicia cowelii is so slow planted here in South Florida soils. Curious if they are faster on its native serpentinic soils?

[Alberto]

I also have some Basselinia seedlings from serpentine soils of New Caledonia.

My native soil here is acid and rich in iron. I added some Magnesium and Copper sulphate.

The seedlings are slow but healthy looking and every new leave is bigger

[BS Man about Palms]

I also have some Basselinia seedlings from serpentine soils of New Caledonia.

My native soil here is acid and rich in iron. I added some Magnesium and Copper sulphate.

The seedlings are slow but healthy looking and every new leave is bigger

Alberto, Do i remember that you were having some good luck with Basselinia tomentosa??

[Alberto]

I also have some Basselinia seedlings from serpentine soils of New Caledonia.

My native soil here is acid and rich in iron. I added some Magnesium and Copper sulphate.

The seedlings are slow but healthy looking and every new leave is bigger

Alberto, Do i remember that you were having some good luck with Basselinia tomentosa??

Exactly! Basselinia tomentosa. Also could germinate some B. moorei.

[BS Man about Palms]

I hope you find the secret to the tomentosa's Alberto. We have had several around here get to 10" to 1 foot tall, then just suddenly die. But those were in pots, maybe early soil.. serpentine or not would help? I will try them again... someday