Rhopalostylis ID

[PalmCode]

Hello all,  Iv'e known about his palm for a while and it's been bugging me... what type of Nikau is this? My gut says it's R.Baueri with that crownshaft  and inflorecence but those darker green leaves and whiteish petioles thew me off a bit and make me think maybe Chatham. 

Any one here think they tell?

Thanks for any input.

Edited May 10, 2021 by PalmCode

[Tyrone]

I'm thinking Chatham.

[Gary]

think more likely to be baueri as see the right features

[Billeb]

I vote Chatham Island solely on the white petioles. 

[PalmCode]

1 hour ago, Gary said:

think more likely to be baueri as see the right features

Yeah I can see from your photo they do share very similar features. It's a tough one to pick but if  you're right this would be the most Chatham islands looking Baueri Iv'e seen, at least growing in an area more exposed to sunlight. Might be lucky enough to gather a few seeds from it in the future.

[Gary]

here is landsendt pitt island and mustbe 50 of them there.What area is your pic taken?

[Gary]

here is a norfolk island baueri

[sipalms]

29 minutes ago, Gary said:

here is landsendt pitt island and mustbe 50 of them there.What area is your pic taken?

Every single time I look at these ones, I can't see a single bit of Pitt Island there...! 

[Gary]

4 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Every single time I look at these ones, I can't see a single bit of Pitt Island there...! 

these also came from landsendt

[Gary]

more pitt -note short crownshaft

[Gary]

more pitt

[Gary]

here are some of the manakau city pitt

[Gary]

5 hours ago, PalmCode said:

Hello all,  Iv'e known about his palm for a while and it's been bugging me... what type of Nikau is this? My gut says it's R.Baueri with that crownshaft  and inflorecence but those darker green leaves and whiteish petioles thew me off a bit and make me think maybe Chatham. 

Any one here think they tell?

Thanks for any input.

i see this palm is flowering at present as see spent ones on ground.Not sure if pitt are at present but do know baueri are as have bout 10 at my place in flower now 

[PalmCode]

Sweetas, ive seen  some of those those palms before. Guess the white powder not rubbing off the petioles can make a Baueri  look more what you'd expect from some  garden grown pitt/chatham island that you can see around.

Yeah i just picked up some seed from it, Theyre larger than mainland sapida.

I'm thinking this is a Baueri, i just think it looks more like one that has been growing somewhere in California or overseas not so much North Auckland. Random. 

anyway cheers. 

 

 

[Gary]

this one is chatham island from the main island chatham.Plant supplied by Graham Platt in late 80s 

[Tyrone]

I’ve not seen bauerii with such white petioles. They’re either green or dark brown to almost black in some cases. I think Chathams also have white flowers like bauerii. I still think the Chatham is a version of bauerii not sapida. That fat thick leaflet and white petiole make me think Chatham for the original post. But that’s just my opinion. 

[PalmCode]

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

I’ve not seen bauerii with such white petioles. They’re either green or dark brown to almost black in some cases. I think Chathams also have white flowers like bauerii. I still think the Chatham is a version of bauerii not sapida. That fat thick leaflet and white petiole make me think Chatham for the original post. But that’s just my opinion. 

Yep, I  agree with what youre saying. Chatham really is like a version of bauerii  From seedling to adult more so than mainland sapdia. I don't know what the Chathams flowers look like...From the  lowest branches up,  this one looks more chatham than bauerii to me.  I can't figure it out.

Either way, it just goes to show how diverse palms can be. 

cheers

Edited May 10, 2021 by PalmCode

[richnorm]

Are those not purple flowers on photos 3 and 4? That would rule out baueri.  I am not sure if Chathams can have purple flowers sometimes. Certainly ordinary sapida can sometimes throw white flowers.  

[Gary]

42 minutes ago, richnorm said:

Are those not purple flowers on photos 3 and 4? That would rule out baueri.  I am not sure if Chathams can have purple flowers sometimes. Certainly ordinary sapida can sometimes throw white flowers.  

chathams has pinkish flowers often just like other sapida.The pic is one at my place.I do see white sapida flowers in the wild but not that often.There are places round auckland where i suspect baueri and sapida have hybrized looking at resulting seedlings and parent plant.Your screen wouldbe sharper than mine to see flowers on his pics

[PalmCode]

2 hours ago, richnorm said:

Are those not purple flowers on photos 3 and 4? That would rule out baueri.  I am not sure if Chathams can have purple flowers sometimes. Certainly ordinary sapida can sometimes throw white flowers.  

Yes there is some pink or purple color in two of its flower branches. The other one looks completely white. Does that not happen with Baueri?... I guess its possible then this could be a hybrid of some sort but I don't know.

Edited May 10, 2021 by PalmCode

[richnorm]

Sapida flowers can be pale when first released from the spathe but colour up when flowers open.   I think baueri stay snowy white but there may be rare variation.  I can't see any other way the two species can be separated definitively given variation overlap. 

[Gary]

24 minutes ago, richnorm said:

Sapida flowers can be pale when first released from the spathe but colour up when flowers open.   I think baueri stay snowy white but there may be rare variation.  I can't see any other way the two species can be separated definitively given variation overlap. 

baueri are almost look bleached white.Colour crownshaft also can set them apart

[Gary]

43 minutes ago, PalmCode said:

Yes there is some pink or purple color in two of its flower branches. The other one looks completely white. Does that not happen with Baueri?... I guess its possible then this could be a hybrid of some sort but I don't know.

it is not flower branches that set them apart but the flowers

[PalmCode]

18 minutes ago, Gary said:

it is not flower branches that set them apart but the flowers

 I didn't get to see what color the flowers were in time.

Heres some fresh seed from it and more flower branch.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Here is my R sapida Chatham island for comparison.

 

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Also my R Baueri

 

 

[PalmCode]

18 minutes ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

Also my R Baueri

 

 

Ah there we go.  After seeing your R. Baueri with the white petioles and darker leaves I'm convinced the palm in question is R. Baueri now, thanks a lot.  Your palms look stunning by the way.

Edited May 11, 2021 by PalmCode

[sipalms]

38 minutes ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

Also my R Baueri

 

 

Beautiful palms @Tassie_Troy1971! 

At that size, what would you say are the defining factors between Chatham and Baueri? And how does the growth  rate compare in your climate?

[PalmCode]

@sipalms I don't mind posting you a few seeds off this palm if you're keen to try and grow some.

[sipalms]

45 minutes ago, PalmCode said:

@sipalms I don't mind posting you a few seeds off this palm if you're keen to try and grow some.

Thanks Cody, appreciate the offer. My problem is that I have a terrible track record with Nikau germination and have mainly cheated with seedlings rather than seeds. But I'd love to try. I'll PM you... 

Do you think, if it was a hybrid Chatham+Baueri, there would be some degree of increased vigour or hardiness?

[Gary]

3 hours ago, PalmCode said:

 I didn't get to see what color the flowers were in time.

Heres some fresh seed from it and more flower branch.

here is fresh baueri seed from yesterday.I dont know of any fresh pitt seeds at this time of year but here are seedlings and seed mixed

[Gary]

the last pitt seed i collected was December and on left in pic

[PalmCode]

3 hours ago, sipalms said:

Thanks Cody, appreciate the offer. My problem is that I have a terrible track record with Nikau germination and have mainly cheated with seedlings rather than seeds. But I'd love to try. I'll PM you... 

Do you think, if it was a hybrid Chatham+Baueri, there would be some degree of increased vigour or hardiness?

If by some fluke it is a hybrid then I guess it maybe more cold hardy like the chathams are.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

22 hours ago, sipalms said:

Beautiful palms @Tassie_Troy1971! 

At that size, what would you say are the defining factors between Chatham and Baueri? And how does the growth  rate compare in your climate?

Hi

The Chatham Island is by far the fastest Rhopalostylis in my climate compared to my others , Auckland sapida, great barrier Island , Waipatikki beach.

The R  Baueri is perhaps a bit faster again and has a more open display of leaves rather than the closely set Chatham Island. both have the silver petioles.

 

 

[Gary]

for me in waitakere rangers baueri is the quickest grower but little barrier is the most robust palm and pitt is inbetween.All seem to take round 15yrs to flower  so guess you can say all mature ie flower bout the same age.Trouble with Pitt as they age they can look like ordinary sapida as shown in previous pics.Pitt/Chathams have only been available in Auckland since the early 90s from a seed collection Graeme Plant done in mid 80s and 10000 were grown from seed at propex nursery in Henderson. 

[sipalms]

Here's some photos I took of the Banks Peninsula Nikau in Habitat in Nikau Gully, Akaroa, that I hiked to last year.

In my opinion these are a bit different to typical mainland Nikau, almost Baueri or Pitt looking, when you observe the thin (i.e. hardly bulging) crownshaft and recurved fronds. I quite like this form, gutted I didn't get any seed.

 

 

[Gary]

maybe you should join the nz  palm and cycad facebook group as there are members from Banks area that probably could send you some seed.That form comes up for sale occassionally as people have collected seed over the years.I have a couple somewhere but would have adapted to my conditions and not look like they would in habitat

[Tassie_Troy1971]

3 hours ago, sipalms said:

Here's some photos I took of the Banks Peninsula Nikau in Habitat in Nikau Gully, Akaroa, that I hiked to last year.

In my opinion these are a bit different to typical mainland Nikau, almost Baueri or Pitt looking, when you observe the thin (i.e. hardly bulging) crownshaft and recurved fronds. I quite like this form, gutted I didn't get any seed.

 

 

fabulous photos

[sipalms]

Thanks, @Tassie_Troy1971. You can view the full lot of photos of this trip starting on page 3, here;

 

 

[sipalms]

I should add too, that my opinion on banks peninsula form has changed a little as I observe more habitat Rhopalostylis around the country. Seems so be somewhat unique. It certainly is very isolated and likely would have been for many centuries or even millenia, so somewhat homogeneous as a result.