Can cocos survive in Lindos,Rhodes in Greece?

[southathens]

On 9/24/2025 at 12:28 PM, mlovecan said:

I'm travelling this week but will post a couple photos on the weekend.

Any update on the photos?

[mlovecan]

On 10/10/2025 at 9:20 PM, southathens said:

Any update on the photos?

Sorry for the delay - was travelling again. These are my three coconut palms - larger one is a malayan dwarf and the smaller two are Panama Talls I imported from Florida.

[mlovecan]

It's no secret our summers have been getting much hotter. Not sure of the credibility of this article but it does suggest coconut trees will be as easy to grow here as they are in parts of the middle East: https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/local/cyprus-heading-cairo-climate-autumn-vanishes-experts-warn/

[Janni]

On 12/3/2025 at 9:46 AM, mlovecan said:

It's no secret our summers have been getting much hotter. Not sure of the credibility of this article but it does suggest coconut trees will be as easy to grow here as they are in parts of the middle East: https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/local/cyprus-heading-cairo-climate-autumn-vanishes-experts-warn/

This topic couldn‘t be more up to date these days in Greece. You are getting all the rain you hadn‘t had the past six months in just a couple of days…

[mlovecan]

1 hour ago, Janni said:

This topic couldn‘t be more up to date these days in Greece. You are getting all the rain you hadn‘t had the past six months in just a couple of days…

We had mobile phone warnings of 40mm severe weather and rain last night. Not sure if we got that much but we sure did get a lot.  A large and well established Phoenix dactylifera in the center was snapped in three places and a cruise ship, attached to the dock, had its' ropes snapped and was left drifting in the sea.

Nice and sunny now with 21 degrees. The rain now is much less frequent. If we have no rain, the temperatures are always quite pleasant and very cocos-friendly.  I plan on putting my dwarf (the larger one) in the ground next year and probably one of the panama talls.

Those panama talls seem to be quite tough.

[Than]

It's been raining non stop here the last 48 hours too, yesterday especially the rain was torrential at times and the wind was very strong. Temperature is hovering around 11-14 C the whole day. It is up to 20 C when sunny.

7 hours ago, mlovecan said:

I plan on putting my dwarf (the larger one) in the ground next year and probably one of the panama talls.

Please do! I am done reading endless theories about whether a cocos would or would not survive in Greece. Finally, someone is going to try; and in one of the most favorable spots of the country. So then we will at least know. My prediction -sorry- is that a cocos won't make it, at least not unprotected and not for many years. But I do honestly hope I'm wrong. 

[mlovecan]

I'm guessing you haven't seen the one Stelios is growing in Cyprus. I have compared live weather information and we both get the same weather but just one or two days apart. My experience has always suggested it's the blazing hot sun that batter the cocos and make them ill-prepared for winter. I imported the Panama Talls for the level of cold-hardiness that is always said to be greater than that of Dutch Malayan dwarfs - avaiilable in every OBi and Leroy Merlin by the pallet. I was pleasantly surprised to find they take the blazing heat, This wil only help getting them through the winter. Btw, the arborisy who removed 4 washingtonias for me he knew somebody in Rhodes with a coconut that was 4 or 5 years old.  But he knew of no others/ 

[Janni]

On 12/5/2025 at 10:24 PM, mlovecan said:

I'm guessing you haven't seen the one Stelios is growing in Cyprus. I have compared live weather information and we both get the same weather but just one or two days apart. My experience has always suggested it's the blazing hot sun that batter the cocos and make them ill-prepared for winter. I imported the Panama Talls for the level of cold-hardiness that is always said to be greater than that of Dutch Malayan dwarfs - avaiilable in every OBi and Leroy Merlin by the pallet. I was pleasantly surprised to find they take the blazing heat, This wil only help getting them through the winter. Btw, the arborisy who removed 4 washingtonias for me he knew somebody in Rhodes with a coconut that was 4 or 5 years old.  But he knew of no others/ 

I find your approach very reasonable. Keep them as long in the pots as you feel comfortable with it and as long as you don‘t have to worry every other day during winter. But my guess is, that the coconuts would survive at least for a few years like the one in cyprus, given that they are being put in a good spot. 
there is plenty of evidence, that the climate in the southern parts of Greece is perfectly suitable for many many tropical plants. People there are just beginning to experiment with those plants. Just look at the newest pictures of my post in the Travel Logs. For example C. lutescens is thriving on the Peloponnes. Only few of us would have guessed that before. 

[mlovecan]

Janni, you've just made me go look up the climate range of C. lutescens and I'm actually a bit suprised it's that cold sensitive. One of the first things I did when I bought my place in Greece was bring a couple pots of them from Obi in Germany.  Probably amoung the most neglected of all my palms. I really find them bullet-proof and the older parts of the clump have been getting a fair bit of trunk in the last couple years.

[southathens]

Hello all!

I have created a high-resolution USDA Plant Hardiness Zones map for Greece, based on climate data from the period 2006-2025. The aim of this work was to create the most detailed depiction of hardiness zones, utilizing modern geospatial analysis techniques to capture the complex geomorphology of the Greek territory.

Methodology & Data:

• Primary Data: The analysis was based on annual minimum temperatures from the meteorological station networks of NOA, HNMS and selected stations from reliable networks with strict operating standards (IMS).

• Geospatial Analysis: A combination of Multivariate Regression and Spatial Interpolation (Regression-Kriging) was used. The model factored in latitude, distance from the sea, and altitude.

• Digital Elevation Model (DEM): A high-definition DEM (~300m) was applied for the precise application of the Lapse Rate. This allowed for the separation of warm coastal zones from colder hinterlands at the pixel level, highlighting microclimates lost in previous approaches.

Results & Observations: The map clearly depicts the range of zones, from the cold Zone 6a in the mountains, to Zone 11a (>4.4°C). Of particular interest is the spatial distribution of Zone 11a, which was identified based on the data:

• In the Dodecanese (Extensively in Rhodes, as well as in Kasos, Karpathos, Kastellorizo).

• In Monemvasia, which constitutes the only location where Zone 11a appears on the mainland.

• Crete (Northern and Southern coasts) and Gavdos.

• Cyclades (Amorgos, Koufonisia, Sifnos).

• In Hydra, which represents a remarkable microclimate and constitutes the northernmost point of Zone 11a occurrence in the entire Mediterranean.

See the map in full resolution in the attached file.

 

[mlovecan]

You're being a bit generous in parts of Rhodes. I guess you have litle data to work with. When I drive back and forth to the city, my external thermometer jumps up and down quite a bit in winter. Archangelos (150m above sea level) is the coldest place I drive through. They are surrounded by fairly tall hills and I guess the cold rolls down from them. They got snow in 2022 and there was still some in the ditch 4 days later! In 2023, passed through the village once in early afternoon and it was -2 degrees! The area between Kolymbia and Faliraki got snow  in 2022 and normally is about 3 degrees colder when I drive through at night. This is a shot from Kolymbia on Januaty 25th 2022. I can't tell you the temp as I was not there. The photo was taken from the restaurant's facebook page:

[mlovecan]

Mount Profitis Ilias (elevation 800m - in your zone 11) can also get quite cold. That mountain gets snow at least once every 5 years and it stays for about 2 weeks. other than my few exceptions, climate would be more or less consistant with where you've placed them on Rhodes.

 

[southathens]

4 hours ago, mlovecan said:

You're being a bit generous in parts of Rhodes. I guess you have litle data to work with. 

 

 

4 hours ago, mlovecan said:

Mount Profitis Ilias (elevation 800m - in your zone 11) can also get quite cold. That mountain gets snow at least once every 5 years and it stays for about 2 weeks. other than my few exceptions, climate would be more or less consistant with where you've placed them on Rhodes.

 

There is no location in Greece, at least from the 500+ stations that I used for this map, that can reliably reach zone 11a at such an altitude.  The highest altitude 11a can be found in the country is at around 80 m elevation. I think you are confusing zone 10b shown extensively in Rhodes with zones 11a on the island.

You need to download or save the map on your laptop and then zoom in exponentially to clearly see zones 11a. Most of these are shown as tiny isolated dots (in smaller islands) and a bit more defined in larger islands like Rhodes and Crete . Even in larger islands you can barely see 11a zones from the above post! 

So please do download the map PNG which comes at a stunning 300 DPI resolution for infinite zooming in without pixelation. You can see Greece at around 300 meters resolution!

Rhodes  in relation to its size however has the most extensive 11a zones in the country (city proper, AP, Lindos).

Below is a second version of the map and If you can read Greek check the second legend at the bottom left of the map. You will see there a full list of the actual 11a zones based strictly on official met data.

[southathens]

Below the link for the full resolution of the map as the forum algorithm has violently shrunken it: https://imgur.com/a/JwLtOtv

[mlovecan]

Ok. Now that I have downloaded your entire map, I have a couple comments on your Lindos area zone 11:

• The area you identify as Lindos contains 2 separate villages, 5 km apart - Lindos and Pefkos (Pefki)   Most locals consider Pefkos to be have slightly higher winter lows than Lindos 
• An area extending southward from Mount Kourtis and through the coastal community of Kiotari is just as warm as well ( my village, Lardos is just North of Kourtis) 

[southathens]

55 minutes ago, mlovecan said:

Ok. Now that I have downloaded your entire map, I have a couple comments on your Lindos area zone 11:

• The area you identify as Lindos contains 2 separate villages, 5 km apart - Lindos and Pefkos (Pefki)   Most locals consider Pefkos to be have slightly higher winter lows than Lindos 
• An area extending southward from Mount Kourtis and through the coastal community of Kiotari is just as warm as well ( my village, Lardos is just North of Kourtis) 

Thanks for the info! 

The model that is used by USDA for the production of such maps is the Multivariate Regression and Spatial Interpolation (Regression-Kriging) . This  basically takes the available met data and in conjunction with DEM's lapse rate, calculates as safely as possible where each zone should land. 

What the model probably did with the Lindos case is that it took its official met data and interpolated them through DEM's lapse rate according to altitude. This is why Pefkos also falls into 11a zone.

Now, I am guessing Kiotari is just too far away south for the model to actually consider it as 11a zone. This is a limitation due to having only 1 official met station in that part of Rhodes. I am sure that if we had more met stations in the area and the model could use their data, then we would probably see the entire SE coast of Rhodes well into 11a zone. 

[Janni]

7 hours ago, southathens said:

Below the link for the full resolution of the map as the forum algorithm has violently shrunken it: https://imgur.com/a/JwLtOtv

Μπράβο σου! Έκανες πολύ καλή δουλειά. 
I like your approach very much from a scientific perspective. There may be a certain bias in those areas with low coverage of meteo stations. Furthermore it all depends on the data quality.
All in all I‘d say, it looks like a good approximation of the real USDA Zones. Of course you will always have deviations, especially in areas with wild topography… I wouldn‘t mind them in that scale of your map. 👍🏽

[southathens]

7 minutes ago, Janni said:

Μπράβο σου! Έκανες πολύ καλή δουλειά. 
I like your approach very much from a scientific perspective. There may be a certain bias in those areas with low coverage of meteo stations. Furthermore it all depends on the data quality.
All in all I‘d say, it looks like a good approximation of the real USDA Zones. Of course you will always have deviations, especially in areas with wild topography… I wouldn‘t mind them in that scale of your map. 👍🏽

Ευχαριστώ! Με γάμησε η διαδικασία καθώς είχε ατελείωτη ανάλυση των δεδομένων 😛

It took me almost a month to double check the official met data (over 500 stations from NOA, HNMS etc) and then to make sure I had the correct altitude and coordinates. It was a bit of a nightmare to be honest. 

You are right however. In areas where we have fewer stations we would almost certainly miss some zones!

[Janni]

Ξέρω τι ταλαιπωρία είναι αυτή.

When I worked at a science lab in Zurich, I also had to process huge data sets. We had time slots at one of the Swiss supercomputers and our calculations had runtimes of up to two weeks. If you made a mistake in your code, it could either show up immediately (better case) or after a couple of days of calculation and you had to do it all over again!! 🤬 

 

[southathens]

42 minutes ago, Janni said:

Ξέρω τι ταλαιπωρία είναι αυτή.

When I worked at a science lab in Zurich, I also had to process huge data sets. We had time slots at one of the Swiss supercomputers and our calculations had runtimes of up to two weeks. If you made a mistake in your code, it could either show up immediately (better case) or after a couple of days of calculation and you had to do it all over again!! 🤬 

 

speaking of mistakes here is the updated version with a few (minor) fixes:

https://imgur.com/a/MOEho68

[southathens]

How AI pictured Lindos in a few years 😛

[mlovecan]

19 hours ago, southathens said:

Now, I am guessing Kiotari is just too far away south for the model to actually consider it as 11a zone. This is a limitation due to having only 1 official met station in that part of Rhodes. I am sure that if we had more met stations in the area and the model could use their data, then we would probably see the entire SE coast of Rhodes well into 11a zone. 

Yes, the entire SE coast of Rhodes is probably as warm as Lindos and Pefkos. A friend of mine has a bar we hang out in when it is closed for the winter and I often go to a restaurant just on the other side of Mount Kourtis as well as a grocery store in Kiotari. When I ride a bike between my place and those places at night during winter, there is always quite a noticeable difference in temperature. Maybe 4 degrees. I don't ride further South so I can't really comment on winter night time temps past Kiotari.