Palm Spacing - Please check my plan!

[iDesign]

I've got some palms lined up ready to go in the ground, and thought I would double-check that my spacing is sufficient.

Big picture is that I'd like to space them as closely as possible, to help hide the neighbor's house. But I don't want to plant them so close I'll regret it later. Oh, and you can ignore the out-of-control "red tipped photinia" plants behind the palms... we're going to leave them there for a year, and then cut them all out after the new plants have been in the ground for a year. So you just need to consider the plants that are in pots.

From left to right...

- Fiddle Leaf Fig (Ficus Lyrata) that I'm hoping will grow enormous and help block the neighbor house.
- Triple Veichia Arecina that I'm hoping will eventually grow taller than everything, and block the window. Spacing between Fig & Veitchia triple is 44"
- Double Kentia Palm that I assume will grow pretty slowly. Spacing between Veitchia triple and Double Kentia is 60" (with Bromeliad in between)
- Purple King (Archontophoenix purpurea), plus a smaller one on the right that I'm planting to look similar to a "double". Not sure if it's going to grow faster or slower than the double Kentia's, and am a little concerned about the spacing in this area. Spacing on either side of the Purpurea is 36"
- Double Kentia Palm has 53" between it and the Fishtail (Caryota gigas). Do I need this much? If not, maybe I could close this gap a bit (to get more room for the purple kings)
- Sylvester Palm (Phoenix sylvestris) is waiting patiently for the Fishtail to flower, and will eventually be put in the Fishtail's spot. Or if the Sylvester gets too big for its pot I'll heartlessly cut down the Fishtail early.

Thoughts? I love how it looks... would just prefer to not have the fronds all smashed together. Any minor spacing tweaks that would improve things?

Edited April 25, 2021 by idesign123

[kinzyjr]

@idesign123

Veitchia arecina fronds have a mature length of roughly 10 feet (~3 meters).  With fronds on both sides, that is a crown size of ~20 feet.  It seems you want some overlap, but 44" is less than 4 feet, so you will have at least 6 feet of overlap on one side.  You may want more space there.  These grow like rockets here in Florida.  http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Veitchia_arecina

Howea forsteriana typically grow a lot slower and have mature fronds that top out at 12 feet.  With fronds on both sides, that is a crown size of ~24 feet.  Being that close to a clump of Veitchia, you'll have a pretty large overlap if they are in the same plane.  I doubt that will happen given the differential between the growth rates of these species, but Howea do grow faster in CA than FL, while Veitchia tend to grow slower there. http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Howea_forsteriana

Archontophoenix purpurea have a mature leaf length of 13 feet, giving a total grown diameter of ~26 feet.  With only 3 feet of space on one side, if the fronds are in the same plane you'll have a lot of overlap/jamming. http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Archontophoenix_purpurea

Caryota gigas is listed to have a mature spread of 18 feet. http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Caryota_gigas

Phoenix sylvestris has a mature frond length of ~10 feet, giving a crown diameter of ~20 feet and is usually a slower grower. http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Phoenix_sylvestris

The big thing will be if any of the fronds end up in the same plane.  If the Veitchia grow as fast as they do here, you shouldn't see it butt against anything until the Archontophoenix hits maturity, and even then the trunks should be long enough to comfortably grow away from each other in open space.

Aside from spacing for canopy mesh, consider that the taller and faster growing palms tend to self clean and drop spent fronds on anything below them.

[iDesign]

2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

 

The big thing will be if any of the fronds end up in the same plane...

Yep, that's exactly the mystery I'm trying to solve!

For example, on paper the Fishtail is MUCH too close to the Kentia, but it's a non-issue due to the Fishtail being mature (i.e. the fronds of the two trees would never touch because they're on different "planes"). The type of "layering" effect happening between the Fishtail & Kentia is the ideal I'm striving for (if possible). Just need to know more about the growth rates of these palms to help determine whether I've got some cool "layering" happening... or a tangled mess.

Here are more specific questions, which would help me know for sure...

1) Triple Arecina
Will the Triple Veitchia Arecina get tall enough to rise above both the Fiddle Leaf Fig & Kentia. Based on a mature triple I saw at Rancho Soledad, I'm thinking it might... and if so, then it doesn't matter if there's some frond overlap initially. Can anyone out there confirm whether the Veitchia triple will eventually rise above the Fiddle Leaf & Kentia (i.e., be on a higher "plane" than the others)?

2) Purple King
This is the one I'm most unsure of. I've heard that both Kentias & Purple Kings are slow... but is one slower than the other? In other words, If you looked at this arrangement 10 years from now, would the Kentias or Purple King likely be taller? Or would the fronds be on the same plane, in a tangled mess?

Thanks again for your help

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, idesign123 said:

Yep, that's exactly the mystery I'm trying to solve!

For example, on paper the Fishtail is MUCH too close to the Kentia, but it's a non-issue due to the Fishtail being mature (i.e. the fronds of the two trees would never touch because they're on different "planes"). The type of "layering" effect happening between the Fishtail & Kentia is the ideal I'm striving for (if possible). Just need to know more about the growth rates of these palms to help determine whether I've got some cool "layering" happening... or a tangled mess.

Here are more specific questions, which would help me know for sure...

1) Triple Arecina
Will the Triple Veitchia Arecina get tall enough to rise above both the Fiddle Leaf Fig & Kentia. Based on a mature triple I saw at Rancho Soledad, I'm thinking it might... and if so, then it doesn't matter if there's some frond overlap initially. Can anyone out there confirm whether the Veitchia triple will eventually rise above the Fiddle Leaf & Kentia (i.e., be on a higher "plane" than the others)?

2) Purple King
This is the one I'm most unsure of. I've heard that both Kentias & Purple Kings are slow... but is one slower than the other? In other words, If you looked at this arrangement 10 years from now, would the Kentias or Purple King likely be taller? Or would the fronds be on the same plane, in a tangled mess?

Thanks again for your help

1) Veitchia arecina should outgrow Kentia (Howea forsteriana) and Fiddle Leaf fig pretty easily.

2) If I had to bet on one outgrowing the other, both in terms of speed and maximum height, I'd probably bet on Archontophoenix purpurea over Howea forsteriana

[iDesign]

Thanks for the advice! I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to pull at least one of the palms from the "lineup" to make room for the others :-/

I'm still unsure on the growth rate "match ups" though. To help gather more information, I just drove through an older neighborhood to get a better feel for how large Kentias in my area are getting... And they're really tall! So my initial assumption that the triple Veitchia Arecina & Purple King fronds are going to be in a higher "plane" than the Kentias might not be a safe bet. Though the Veitchia Arecina at a minimum is supposed to be really tall eventually? Never seen a Purple King in my area, so have to rely on Palmpedia photos for that one.

----

Would love to get additional opinions on the following "match ups"...

1) Triple Arecina
In 10 years, would the Triple Veitchia Arecina be taller than both the Fiddle Leaf Fig & Kentia?

2) Purple King
In 10 years, would the Purple King be taller than the Double Kentias?

Most importantly, where in the current lineup would you anticipate the most "frond smushing" happening?

* Again, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to pull one of the palms (and space them out)... just trying to first visualize where the biggest problems in my current lineup are.

[banthony720]

I'm struggling with this type of planning myself. Which is why I have like 15 palms in pots because I don't know where to put them and I keep discovering and obtaining new stuff. I'm running out of time for spring planting. Im zone pushing north central florida so id say you gotta pick your favorites make sure they have room then see what happensI'm a total newbie so take it for what its worth, you might want to consider expanding the planting area ie some curves in the pavers/mulch bed. Give yourself space to plant more stuff in a couple/few years. 

[JohnAndSancho]

I'm showing my Kentias the pictures of your Kentias in hope that they'll get insecure and hit growth spurts. 

 

Looks freaking amazing. Just pepper the shaded area with your favorite Chamedoreas. Good vibes and hope it works out as well as you envision. 

[Palm Tree Jim]

In my garden, I am growing both arecina and purpurea and the purpurea is slower.  We are both in Southern California and probably have similar climate.

The purpurea has more canopy and perhaps that is causing the slow growth. However, I have found they could be somewhat finicky on the location. I had one that was in much more sun and just did not perform well so I removed it.

Hope this helps.

[Tracy]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:54 AM, idesign123 said:

2) Purple King
In 10 years, would the Purple King be taller than the Double Kentias?

 

3 hours ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

In my garden, I am growing both arecina and purpurea and the purpurea is slower.

While I have never grown either A. purpurea or  Veitchia arecina, my experience watching neighbors growing C. purpurea would indicate they are not nearly as fast as their sibling's within the genus such as A cunninghamiana.  Given that experience watching them in both Carlsbad and here in Leucadia grow, I would suspect the Howea forsterianas will be taller over a decade, in particular if you provide some part day shade.  Howea forsteriana tend to be much faster here than most people expect.  If you want to do something with a different look but slower for sure, get a Howea belmoreana.  I love the structure of belmoreana, which will prove to be much more unique and different from what your neighbors are growing than H forsteriana.  They have much tighter ring spacing and remain at eye level much longer which in the later case can be a plus.  I planted 3 close to one another in a planter in Carlsbad that have been slower than the single here in Leucadia.  I think less root competition has helped this one.  It's about a decade in the ground from probably a 3 or 5 gallon, but endured a transplant from one side of the house to the other about 7 years ago.  It has about 2' of clean ringed trunk or slightly less and reaches up about 12' with the deeply recurved leaves, so definitely slower than a Howea forsteriana and likely slower than what I'm hearing the Veitchia arecina will grow.

[IHB1979]

Plan looks great! I would plant them all. If you don't like the outcome in several years, you can edit/remove one. 

I had asked a similar question for my yard years ago regarding the planting of three palms near one another. It was a Panama Tall coconut, Dictyosperma album and Veitchia arecina. For the first 6 years, they were the same height. After eight years the coconut and Veitchia are still the same height. When planted close (mine are closer than your spacing) they tend to lean for sun which can look odd. Once these trio of palms started flowering, the other surrounding fronds often knock down flowers and seed prior to maturity during periods of wind.