Dypsis lutescens - Even Possible in 9a Protected?

[KDubU]

I came across some nice Dypsis lutescens today and know they are a zone 10-11 and maybe 9b. From what I read so far a mature one may be able to handle 27-29. With 9a, temps can go to 20 and this last winter the coldest was 28, two winters before that were warmer. There were a few days with light frost but mainly only visible on rooftops. My first thought was no way I am trying these which is too bad as they are the right height and look for out front between the porch and walkway. After more research and thinking about it I am wondering if I plant them close to the house, will face West so afternoon sun although in winter the sun will be there by noon. There is roof overhang of 2 feet plus out beyond the pathway are some queens and large pines so there is a canopy although not right above where I thought of planting. What is interesting is I planted two Chamaedorea cataractarum right in the same area close to the house and they are fine with no protection.  Thoughts? Being stupid or possible? I want to plant something that will be tall and tropical there and another option is bamboo but I have a lot of that already and don’t want it to get too big and unmanageable.

[chinandega81]

They have been burned back in Orlando....so compare your climate and how much cooler it is there and then make a call.

If you try it, make sure it is an area with a shade canopy above (a must for you), and in a wind sheltered south side of a building that gets direct sun and drains well in the winter. Ontop of that you will still have to protect them and baby them when young until they get established. After that, you would probably have a certain degree of annual die back...but if they are strong and healthy and have all of those good microclimate qualities, in addition to being well fertilized, they could make it. It might just be easier for you to plant and replace them each growing season since a mature clump is under $40.

[Merlyn]

My 2 clumps burned off the exposed top fronds at 28F with frost.  A few years ago we had a 1 hour 25F cold blast that burnt a neighbor's 10 foot tall cluster to the ground.  And that was with oak canopy.  It grew back eventually.  It seems that 25-27 or so is the severe burn limit.

[NickJames]

I lost half of the foliage of my more exposed clumps earlier this year at 28.9 with extreme frost. In fact, I would say they were more damaged than say my coconut or foxtail. It’s likely the heavy frost that really did them in. 

the clump on the opposite side of yard with less exposure to the north and closer to a neighboring house lost about 25% of foliage. 
 

2 small container-grown ones I have planted right up against my home were not impacted. My home is concrete block with stucco so probably throws off a decent amount of heat. 

[Xenon]

I think it might be a viable accent plant/dieback perennial in a really warm 9a in a sheltered spot but definitely not a functional long-term screen. 

Someone had a 13 year old Dypsis lutescens in Houston that according to them received "no care". It froze back to the ground several times including 19-20F in 2017-2018 winter. I don't know if it will come back from 14-15F this past February.  Picture is from 2020: 

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Xenon

[KDubU]

Thanks everyone. So it is as I thought a no-go because if it dies back a lot, there goes the screening. Really like the look of the palm so it is unfortunate but so be it. Plan now is to look at alternatives such as a smaller bamboo such as Bambusa multiplex ‘Alphonse Karr’ and will look at mixing in some other tropical plants, perhaps a white bird of paradise and also have room for an Arenga engleri which I have a line on as they seemed to be in shorter supply up this way.

[Steve the palmreader]

There are some large ones about 15 ft tall in St. Augustine beach.

[NickJames]

  On 4/25/2021 at 11:13 AM, KDubU said:

Thanks everyone. So it is as I thought a no-go because if it dies back a lot, there goes the screening. Really like the look of the palm so it is unfortunate but so be it. Plan now is to look at alternatives such as a smaller bamboo such as Bambusa multiplex ‘Alphonse Karr’ and will look at mixing in some other tropical plants, perhaps a white bird of paradise and also have room for an Arenga engleri which I have a line on as they seemed to be in shorter supply up this way.

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Just planted some Bambusa ‘gracilis’ at one of my FDOT projects in Sorrento FL...it is amazing. 

[Kailua_Krish]

  On 4/25/2021 at 11:13 AM, KDubU said:

Thanks everyone. So it is as I thought a no-go because if it dies back a lot, there goes the screening. Really like the look of the palm so it is unfortunate but so be it. Plan now is to look at alternatives such as a smaller bamboo such as Bambusa multiplex ‘Alphonse Karr’ and will look at mixing in some other tropical plants, perhaps a white bird of paradise and also have room for an Arenga engleri which I have a line on as they seemed to be in shorter supply up this way.

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Agree with your choices. Despite even keeping several Kerriodoxa going for more than a decade in 9a I’ve never been able to keep D lutescens going

[KDubU]

I have some Bambusa ‘gracilis’ out front near the road but only planted back in Nov and it was 7 gallon. Should have gone for 15 as new culms are coming up but would like it to thicken up now! Looks like the ones you planted have a lot more canes and leaves than mine. 

[Merlyn]

  On 4/25/2021 at 1:56 PM, KDubU said:

I have some Bambusa ‘gracilis’ out front near the road but only planted back in Nov and it was 7 gallon. Should have gone for 15 as new culms are coming up but would like it to thicken up now! Looks like the ones you planted have a lot more canes and leaves than mine. 

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If you want something really fast and medium sized, get Bambusa Eutoldoides Viridi-Vittata, aka "Asian Lemon."  It's rated for 20-25' tall, extremely bushy low branching, and supposed to be hardy to 21F or maybe a bit lower.  Mine went from a single culm 3g pot in February 2020 to a 15' tall 5' diameter clump by the end of last fall.  It (and Malignesis/Seabreeze) are already shooting with at least 5 new culms in late March.  And that's after I divided out 10 culms to plant elsewhere!

If noise reduction matters to you, pick ones with relatively bushy low branching and large, thick, plasticky/glossy leaves.  The small multiplex and textilis-type leaves are ineffective at absorbing/reflecting sound. 

[Merlyn]

Here's my Asian Lemon today, about 14 months from a single culm.  And...that's after removing about 20% of the culms to transplant.  The first year's growth got up to around 10-15', and you can see several new culms going at least another 5' above the rest.  @NickJames that's why I recommended you move yours ASAP, you can see my mini-split AC being crowded on the bottom right.  I have to slice off branches once a month to keep them out of the unit.

[KDubU]

I like Asian Lemon and have a decent sized one that was planted last Nov. No new culms yet though, checking it every day as I know you have had success as well as a couple others. It was a 15g that was planted so I am hoping there will be a lot of new grow this year. My biggest challenge is buying it, seems like most bamboo places are down around Orlando, not much up this way or maybe have not found the place yet.

Edited to add anyone know of any closer to Jacks?

Edited April 25, 2021 by KDubU

[Merlyn]

  On 4/25/2021 at 5:46 PM, KDubU said:

Edited to add anyone know of any closer to Jacks?

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The only one that I know of is "sort of" in that direction: Bountiful Earth in the New Smyrna area.  He's got a really great mature grove of various types.  But that's probably 1.5 hours away.  Most of mine I bought from Tropical Bamboo in the Miami area, 3 gallon mailorder.  All ~20 species from them have done great.

[Lou-StAugFL]

I live in the subdivision St. Augustine South and there are quite a few stands ofDypsis lutescens that have been around for many years but almost all are under very heavy tree cover.  And since our subdivision is close to the Intracoastal Waterway I think we are probably closer to a 9B most years even though we are far north.

[rprimbs]

Aren't there clumping Dypsis that are hardy to zone 9a other than lutescans?

[PalmTreeDude]

  On 4/26/2021 at 3:01 AM, rprimbs said:

Aren't there clumping Dypsis that are hardy to zone 9a other than lutescans?

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Isn’t Dypsis onilahensis somewhat cold hardy? I might be wrong but from my limited knowledge I believe it could handle the mid 20s occasionally. 

[Merlyn]

  On 4/26/2021 at 1:44 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Isn’t Dypsis onilahensis somewhat cold hardy? I might be wrong but from my limited knowledge I believe it could handle the mid 20s occasionally. 

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Yep!  It's probably hardier than Lutescens, based on kinzyjr's spreadsheet.  I have it as fairly hardy >26F with variably severe damage below 25.  I've been looking for one but haven't had any luck so far. 

[ChrisJordanDDS]

  On 4/26/2021 at 2:29 PM, Merlyn said:

Yep!  It's probably hardier than Lutescens, based on kinzyjr's spreadsheet.  I have it as fairly hardy >26F with variably severe damage below 25.  I've been looking for one but haven't had any luck so far. 

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Perhaps its the way that lutescens is typically planted, but I've never seen onilahensis clump as thick as lutescens.  If you're looking for a neighbor-blocker,  I'm not sure onilahensis will be thick enough.

[rprimbs]

What about good ole Dypsis baronii?  You can even get variations like "blackstem".  Isn't it hardier than Dypsis lutescans?

[KDubU]

  On 4/25/2021 at 6:26 PM, Merlyn said:

The only one that I know of is "sort of" in that direction: Bountiful Earth in the New Smyrna area.  He's got a really great mature grove of various types.  But that's probably 1.5 hours away.  Most of mine I bought from Tropical Bamboo in the Miami area, 3 gallon mailorder.  All ~20 species from them have done great.

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Tks! I came across Bountiful Earth the same day. He seems to have a good selection and may just take a trip down there. I will also take a look at Tropical Bamboo as mail order is simpler.

[Merlyn]

  On 4/27/2021 at 11:06 AM, KDubU said:

Tks! I came across Bountiful Earth the same day. He seems to have a good selection and may just take a trip down there. I will also take a look at Tropical Bamboo as mail order is simpler.

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If you are interested in big boos, that's a great place to see all of them.  He does have some medium sized ones too.  But it is at his home, so you'd need to call a day or so ahead for an appointment and to get his address.  I bought Hamiltonii and Latiflorus from him, and a guy I know bought several Chungii pots.

Regarding Onilahensis, @ChrisJordanDDS is probably right.  It's a neat droopy-tipped Dypsis, and relatively hardy.  But you'd need a LOT of them to try and block a neighbor.  It's probably not a dense screen like Lutescens.

Have you thought of using Viburnum for that spot?  I use it all around my backyard perimeter as a hedge.  It's dramatically better at blocking noise than any other common plant, way better than any palm or bamboo.  And you can hack it back to bare stubs and it'll resprout in a couple of weeks.  It isn't as ornamental as a palm, but might be the most functional choice.