Sabal Uresana Growth Rate

[amh]

What is the growth rate for Sabal uresana when planted in the ground? Is it comparable to Sabal minor or faster? Slower?

My potted, 5 gallon S. uresana are still strap leafed after 3 years and I am becoming impatient.

[Jubaea_James760]

They hate been in pots. I'd get it in the ground asap & watch it double in size 

[Collectorpalms]

Very slow to get to trunking size where they start growing upward. They get massive fronds and width though. They take up a lot of area. But once they trunk say 5 years in the ground then they grow almost a foot a year. In 20 years, your looking at a 15 footer.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Jubaea_James760]

Faster than minor for me. I've had mine in the ground 2 years now. Last year it put out 4 leaves,  hopefully it puts out 6-7 this year.

[amh]

28 minutes ago, James760 said:

They hate been in pots. I'd get it in the ground asap & watch it double in size 

 

25 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Very slow to get to trunking size where they start growing upward. They get massive fronds and width though. They take up a lot of area. But once they trunk say 5 years in the ground then they grow almost a foot a year. In 20 years, your looking at a 15 footer.

 

25 minutes ago, James760 said:

Faster than minor for me. I've had mine in the ground 2 years now. Last year it put out 4 leaves,  hopefully it puts out 6-7 this year.

Thank you for the responses, I'm okay with the slow growth, but its the root growth that has bothered me most. My strap leaf plants have 2 ft of roots and I dont feel like replanting into a 20+ gallon pot.

I'll start planting the older plants in the ground this spring.

[Turtlesteve]

Much faster than S. minor.  I agree they hate pots - will grow 2-3x faster in the ground

[RaleighNC]

I agree. Mine has been growing faster than S. minor.

[Arecaceus]

I would say it's very slow while still having that heel. It doesn't look like it's growing at all, even though in the hot months it's pushing out about 1 leaf per month. You only can see the growth by the old petioles. One thing I overlooked was watering it sufficiently. Despite coming from dry areas they need as much water as other Sabals to really grow.

[D Palm]

I sprouted mine from seed 5 or 6 years ago and placed immediately in the ground. It is incredibly slow compared to sabal palmetto and saw palmetto or anything else in my yard for that matter. It has 3 or 4 palmate fronds coming out of the ground. 

[D Palm]

Here it is. Taken today.

[fr8train]

I have a few in pots I've grown from seeds I collected in 2011/2012 at the University of Arizona. I'll try to post some pictures later when I get out of work. 

[amh]

The slow growth rate is actually the reason that I have any Sabal uresana plants alive. If these were faster growers I would have planted them in 2020, ensuring that the 2021 freeze would kill them. My less than 10 year old potted plants are just now producing somewhat palmate leaves. These plants are a silver/blue coloration in person. I would like to try to start some more, especially the very silver types, but people and gardens are bogarting the seeds.

[Summerfield]

Can anyone tell which variety of uresana this is? (inland or costal) It's on the second summer in the ground. I bought it as a strap leaf described as "RARE SILVER URESANA" but I don't see anything but blue/green. It seems to like worm castings pretty well. It also seems to be moving in this Texas heat (106 degrees today).  I see images of the "GREEN" version that look a different shade of green. I don't think this is the green variation, but it doesn't look silver either....is there a "third" variety of uresana??....it's confusing.

[fr8train]

I think this is the green form, as that's what was growing at the U of A. I pulled out a lisa for color comparison. They're still a little blue, but not the sort of almost white blue I saw at the John Fairey gardens.

[fr8train]

Forgot a photo of my other bigger one. I have a few more but they're smaller. I'm pretty happy with their growth as I lived in Wyoming and Illinois from 2013 to 2022, so they spent most of the year inside.

[Meangreen94z]

I think there’s silver-blue, green-blue, and straight green variations of Sabal uresana.

[fr8train]

19 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

I think there’s silver-blue, green-blue, and straight green variations of Sabal uresana.

This is the palm I collected seeds from (you may have to pan around to see it):

https://goo.gl/maps/1RwPjeH3vjbouBnQ8

Edited July 31, 2023 by fr8train

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

I cant say from experience how fast Uresana is in the ground as the only one I have is still in a pot. I would say based off the same growing conditions that Uresana is almost as fast as my Causiarum in the same pot. 3g palm maybe 18 months ago needing to get out of this pot asap.  Much faster then Palmetto for sure.

T J 

Edited August 1, 2023 by OC2Texaspalmlvr
Added picture

[fr8train]

20 hours ago, Summerfield said:

Can anyone tell which variety of uresana this is? (inland or costal) It's on the second summer in the ground. I bought it as a strap leaf described as "RARE SILVER URESANA" but I don't see anything but blue/green. It seems to like worm castings pretty well. It also seems to be moving in this Texas heat (106 degrees today).  I see images of the "GREEN" version that look a different shade of green. I don't think this is the green variation, but it doesn't look silver either....is there a "third" variety of uresana??....it's confusing.

Probably the green form. I'm only aware of a handful of people having the silver form. It's still a great looking palm either way. 

[Josue Diaz]

Mine is very slow - in zone 9b/10a in Fresno CA. It has been picking up speed, this last year or so, but it still doesn't look much bigger than when I first planted it several years ago. 

[Josue Diaz]

[fr8train]

23 hours ago, fr8train said:

This is the palm I collected seeds from (you may have to pan around to see it):

https://goo.gl/maps/1RwPjeH3vjbouBnQ8

Here's a few more around the U of A campus I'm aware of. 

Here's a cluster:

https://goo.gl/maps/o5sXdzwSMdbaswJ49

And larger uresana by the library:

https://goo.gl/maps/ayUiDvKwCQskZtxF6

They're all the green form I believe, but maybe there's some variation like @Meangreen94z mentioned. The oldest one I collected seeds from looked slightly bluer than these.  Nothing like the John Fairey ones though. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by fr8train

[amh]

Mine are blue/silver when growing under shade, but become silver/blue when growing in the sun. Does the blue/green form develop silver coloration when grown in full sun? 

[Tom in Tucson]

3 hours ago, fr8train said:

Here's a few more around the U of A campus I'm aware of. 

Here's a cluster:

https://goo.gl/maps/o5sXdzwSMdbaswJ49

And larger uresana by the library:

https://goo.gl/maps/ayUiDvKwCQskZtxF6

They're all the green form I believe, but maybe there's some variation like @Meangreen94z mentioned. The oldest one I collected seeds from looked slightly bluer than these.  Nothing like the John Fairey ones though. 

I've seen the palms in your 1st link in person. The one on the extreme right I'm fairly sure is a Bismarckia.

If you locate images of Sabal uresana on the web that grow in the foothills of the Sierra Madre east of Ures, they almost look like Bismarckia. Obtaining seeds of this form is difficult, but not impossible.

Hi 107˚, Lo 71˚

[fr8train]

2 hours ago, Tom in Tucson said:

I've seen the palms in your 1st link in person. The one on the extreme right I'm fairly sure is a Bismarckia.

If you locate images of Sabal uresana on the web that grow in the foothills of the Sierra Madre east of Ures, they almost look like Bismarckia. Obtaining seeds of this form is difficult, but not impossible.

Hi 107˚, Lo 71˚

Yeah it's a Bismarckia.

They have a number of cool palms around campus. What I believe is a Sabal bermudana, Nannorrhops arabica, nice mature Brahea. It's cool too Bismarckia can make it there.

[fr8train]

5 hours ago, amh said:

Mine are blue/silver when growing under shade, but become silver/blue when growing in the sun. Does the blue/green form develop silver coloration when grown in full sun? 

Maybe. Mine seem to look a little more blue growing in the hot Texas sun.

[Hillizard]

I agree that putting my Sabal uresana in the ground really accelerated its growth over the past few years. Unfortunately a bluer version of this species didn't make the transplant. This one is only somewhat blue on the newer leaves. Directly behind it is Brahea 'Super Silver' that's really looking like its name.

[amh]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:56 AM, fr8train said:

Probably the green form. I'm only aware of a handful of people having the silver form. It's still a great looking palm either way. 

It's hard to tell the color of some glaucous plants by photographs, some leaves appear green in pictures, but are blue in person. We need someone who has all three variants to take one picture.

[amh]

I think I'll plant one this week.

[Silas_Sancona]

47 minutes ago, amh said:

It's hard to tell the color of some glaucous plants by photographs, some leaves appear green in pictures, but are blue in person. We need someone who has all three variants to take one picture.

Not sure about 3 but here's a few shots from some of the green and silver colored specimens at a garden in Tucson.. 









Can easily tell the differences between the green  ..and silver-y, at least, forms side by side..







Seedlings i have from a silver one pictured ( Have to find the better shots of it ) all look blue -ish to my eye.. Time will tell though.

Keep in mind,, seed on -at least- the silver / blue form is huge for a Sabal.

[fr8train]

^Very nice. I collected a few seeds at John Fairey, and can confirm the seeds are huge!

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, fr8train said:

^Very nice. I collected a few seeds at John Fairey, and can confirm the seeds are huge!

I was kind of surprised myself since no one  -that i remember off the top of my head-  had talked about seed size for the sp. in the past. 

Pretty easy to germinate as well.. Someone i'd sent seed to last year managed to get theirs up and going through a pretty cold winter  ( Indoors of course )

 

[Tom in Tucson]

3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Not sure about 3 but here's a few shots from some of the green and silver colored specimens at a garden in Tucson.. 









Can easily tell the differences between the green  ..and silver-y, at least, forms side by side..







Seedlings i have from a silver one pictured ( Have to find the better shots of it ) all look blue -ish to my eye.. Time will tell though.

Keep in mind,, seed on -at least- the silver / blue form is huge for a Sabal.

I would guess these shots were taken at "the chul". I went there last weekend (Monsoon Madness Sale), but didn't find any seeds. Aren't you the lucky one.

Hi 109˚, Lo 83˚

[amh]

On 8/2/2023 at 6:57 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Not sure about 3 but here's a few shots from some of the green and silver colored specimens at a garden in Tucson.. 









Can easily tell the differences between the green  ..and silver-y, at least, forms side by side..







Seedlings i have from a silver one pictured ( Have to find the better shots of it ) all look blue -ish to my eye.. Time will tell though.

Keep in mind,, seed on -at least- the silver / blue form is huge for a Sabal.

From memory, the silver form has larger seeds than the green form, but this could just be normal size variation.

[Silas_Sancona]

2 minutes ago, amh said:

From memory, the silver form has larger seeds than the green form, but this could just be normal size variation.

Tough to say for sure.. I'd thought the same, but will know for sure once i can catch both forms w/ abundant seed on them and can compare.  Silver / silver-y specimens were the only ones that had seed when i was there.

[fr8train]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Tough to say for sure.. I'd thought the same, but will know for sure once i can catch both forms w/ abundant seed on them and can compare.  Silver / silver-y specimens were the only ones that had seed when i was there.

I've had both seeds, the silver form seeds are the largest Sabal seeds I've seen by far. Much larger than Tamaulipas or even PalmatierMeg's miamiensisXmexicana hybrid. 

[Silas_Sancona]

35 minutes ago, fr8train said:

I've had both seeds, the silver form seeds are the largest Sabal seeds I've seen by far. Much larger than Tamaulipas or even PalmatierMeg's miamiensisXmexicana hybrid. 

Yep, definitely massive compared to all the other Sabal sps, even seeds from beasty S. domingensis, and causiarum.. 

 

[fr8train]

Here's a seed from John Fairey I just pulled out of one of my pots:

[Sabal King]

Ours was purchased as a 15G, sitting in a choice spot, and got beaten up a bit by this lat winter, but growth rate has been anemic thus far.  It's just getting over a full year in the ground so I expect the subsequent years to be much quicker!

[Tom in Tucson]

14 hours ago, Sabal King said:

Ours was purchased as a 15G, sitting in a choice spot, and got beaten up a bit by this lat winter, but growth rate has been anemic thus far.  It's just getting over a full year in the ground so I expect the subsequent years to be much quicker!

In my experiences with growing this species (different forms and sizes), I've discovered that it takes anywhere from 4-6 years for the roots to become established in the ground. After that the leaves will grow at a noticeably faster rate.

Hi 107˚, Lo 76˚