root decomposition

[Darold Petty]

Recently I removed two very large Rhopalostylis palms,  as they had become too tall to manage the falling fronds.  The trunks were about four feet apart.  This area is thus completely congested with roots.  My garden is very small, and I will install a replacement palm in this spot.  I plan to wait about a year for the roots to rot before I attempt to remove the old stumps and excavate a large planting hole for the new palm.

  What  can I do to accelerate this root decomposition ?  I have read about products designed to speed the rotting of dicot, woody stumps but I am not sure if they would be applicable for palms.

  Please advise, thanks !

  

[JubaeaMan138]

I have a huge queen palm stump right in the middle of my back yard that I cut down 4 years ago. Stump is hard as stone and the roots are like dense rope netting . I’d like to know as well. I’ve tried drilling holes down into it and using stump killer . That did nothing . I’ve tried keeping it extremely moist and that also hasn’t made the stump change at all. 

[richnorm]

I have seen black plastic used to accelerate decomposition. I guess it would be hot and damp underneath.  Mind you things decompose very quickly in our climate anyway.

[Darold Petty]

Hi Rich;

  Yes, the black plastic is used here, primarily on stumps of Eucalyptus to prevent new sprouts from the rootstock.

Perhaps I should just hire a day laborer.  It is extremely tedious to attempt excavation when the volume is more root than soil.

[ryjohn]

potassium nitrate is the primary "fertilizer" ingredient in commercial stump remover products.  It can be purchased much more inexpensively in 50 lb fertilizer form.  Providing nitrogen is one of the key ingredients needed to speed up the decomposition of brown (primarily carbon-rich) organic matter.

[Tracy]

22 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Perhaps I should just hire a day laborer.  It is extremely tedious to attempt excavation when the volume is more root than soil.

While the suggestions above might help accelerate the decomposition, the actual timeline would still remain uncertain.  The day laborer solution to excavate at least some of the largest and most dense root-ball is the fastest way to get a certain result.  If you get that part out, you might have enough space to start your planting project this spring without having to wait a year.  I haven't had the patience to allow something to naturally decompose, so have always opted to dig out roots.  It was easier when I still had two young sons at home to help, but those years have been gone for a while.

[Darold Petty]

Yah, I'm much older now than when I started this garden  and I am beginning to feel like I have more money than time !  

[Palm Tree Jim]

Can you get a stump grinder in there?

 

[Darold Petty]

They do make a stump grinder which will pass through a doorway.  I have experience with larger ones on oak tree stumps.  This process is a bit too messy for my tiny yard.  I still have plants with little 'elbow room' adjacent to these palm stumps.   Our entire property is 25 feet wide.

I removed a large Metrosideros excelsa several years ago,  One day to cut the tree down, and a week to dig out the stump! 

[Palm Tree Jim]

Removing a stump by hand is no easy task for us older folks.......

Just recently, I had a palm fall over from trunk rot. The base was easy to remove and then I used a sawzall to get to the roots. It really did make the work much easier.

My advice is to hire someone. 

 

[richnorm]

Soil chainsaw would be the go.

[sonoranfans]

Wood rots best when its wet and hot out.   Our mulch seems to dissolve fairly quickly in the hot season.  Microbes are most active with heat and moisture.  sSeems like a huge job as those must be deep roots.  Depending on the soil, roots may not dry out as fast as soil so planting over them makes the water cycle hard to predict.  I would wait a year to ensure rotting has progressed before doing anything.

[Merlyn]

I've extracted 12 giant oak stumps from my yard with a shovel, pry bar, trowel, and a reciprocating saw.  It is a serious pain, even when the tops of the stumps have been ground down below ground level.  The one I finished up last night took me about 14 total hours, and I ended up with a 3 foot diameter 700lb chunk of oak that's nearly impossible to move.  

I would recommend hiring someone to dig them out.     

[96720]

Day labor the best idea give him an axe and let him go he could have a big enough hole to just stick in a new palm and use some new dirt 

[TomJ]

16 hours ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

Removing a stump by hand is no easy task for us older folks.......

Just recently, I had a palm fall over from trunk rot. The base was easy to remove and then I used a sawzall to get to the roots. It really did make the work much easier.

My advice is to hire someone. 

 

I have had success using a sawzall (reciprocating saw) as well.

Have several new blades.

Get that day laborer and not miss a growing season.

[Palm Tree Jim]

Darold,

Hope you don't mind if I post this here. I still have this stump left from a C. gigas that was removed last October. Like you, I need to have it removed and not by me!

 

[Collectorpalms]

This is a very serious topic for us in Central and North Texas in the coming days after The Great Texas Freeze of 2021!

Any advise would be appreciated.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Merlyn]

For my oak trees I dug about 1 foot out from the trunk edge, about 1 shovelful wide.  I'd start at a relatively open area between the major roots, and dig down 2 feet with shovel and trowel.  Then I'd dig in a circle and cut each major root with the reciprocating saw as I went around the perimeter.  That leaves me with only a few vertical roots to deal with under the center of the stump.  I'd push the stump over one way and cut the roots I could reach, then push it the other way, cut those, repeat until I got all of them.  If your soil isn't really hard and rocky, you might be able to cut two circles with the reciprocating saw.  One (for example) 2 feet in diameter, and the other 4 feet in diameter.  Then dig out the roots in the circular trench and repeat if you need to go deeper.  When I dug out a 15' tall queen palm I just needed to cut one 2' diameter circle around the stump and then lever it out.  But my soil is really soft sand.

My saw blade of choice is the Diablo 3TPI Carbide pruning blades.  Most of the time I use a 6" blade because they are cheap(er) and I'm less likely to jam the tip into something and break a blade.  The plain steel blades get dull in about 2 cuts in sandy soil here, so I quit wasting time and $$ buying them.  I broke one 9" blade and dulled one 6" blade on the below stump.  It's upside down, just FYI.

And this is how I went around the circle, I started on the right side and went clockwise.  I'm about halfway through at this photo, after about 6 hours of work...  Removing the queen stump was a lot faster, because the roots are soft and cut really fast with the blade.

[sonoranfans]

I had a 25' bismarckia die of palm weevil attack about 2 years ago, 26" thick smooth trunk, a beast with many roots.  There are a lotta roots under ground, but finally they seem to be rotting.  I will probably dig it out next winter.  I have lots of container palms for options with that spot, Im in no hurry to kill myself unnecessarily trying to dig it out, but it does sink a little when I walk on it so maybe next winter.  I would never put a prize palm(or any palm) over old roots that havent fully rotted.  If you dont remove them, when they do rot the palm on top will likely sink into the ground a few inches, not good. 

[tacobender]

I have had good luck cutting tree level with ground. Get a few bags of charcoal briquettes. Start a pile on stump and slowly burn stump and roots over a period of a few days. Always worked well for me, not sure if you can do it in your area.

[JP05]

Can you just leave the root ball of a removed palm tree ?  What is the risk? Left mine but had dead tree removed. i just want to grass over it and put a shrub in the bed in front of it it ; it runs by where lines from my pool may be so I don’t want to risk hitting those but landscaper says it really needs to be ground out (hard clay soil). 

[Silas_Sancona]

18 minutes ago, JP05 said:

Can you just leave the root ball of a removed palm tree ?  What is the risk? Left mine but had dead tree removed. i just want to grass over it and put a shrub in the bed in front of it it ; it runs by where lines from my pool may be so I don’t want to risk hitting those but landscaper says it really needs to be ground out (hard clay soil). 

Shouldn't be an issue.. I myself wouldn't wast $ on grinding whatever is left ( unless maybe part of it sticks above ground )

When i first moved here, found the stumpy " remnant" of some type of palm  that had been planted here at this house that is already well into the decomposition stage. Looking at google map views of the house, was alive roughly about a year or two ago.  At this point, can step on it and it crumbles.. 

Remember that the woody tissue of palms isn't exactly like the " wood " of typical trees  so, generally speaking, the roots / root ball itself will usually decompose faster. Planting grass over it / some sort of shrub near it would probably speed up the decomp. process as well. Only thing you might have to do later ( if you throw sod over the stump ) is fill in whatever cavity might be created once what is left of the stump has broken down to essentially compost..

Since your pool lines are in the general area, be sure whatever shrub you decide to plant there isn't something that has aggressive roots that might pose a risk to those lines later. Obviously, depending on your climate, things like Ti plants / Gingers / ..other leafy things like Alocasia  that don't form massive root systems could be good candidates for such a spot. 

[DoomsDave]

@Darold Petty my heart is swollen with conflicting emotions. On the one hand you did what you hadda. On the other, sob! murderer!

(Pot calling out the kettle yes yes yes…..)

What do you want to plant as a replacement? Those roots will add to the soil. What’s your natural soil like?

[Darold Petty]

My 'soil' is almost pure sand.  My garden is about I mile inland from the beach.  Before I began to add organics I could push a shovel fully into the sand with just my arm strength., no foot pressure required.  Now, I cannot force a shovel into the ground at all, as it is mostly a solid mass of roots.  When I need a planting hole I use a reciprocating saw to carve out the cavity.

The replacement palm will be a fan palm, either Pritchardia hillebrandii or Brahea edulis.  I have changed my mind several times about this choice,  zone push or bulletproof ?

  Your thoughts are welcome.