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Ed in Houston
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35 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Some shots of small black mangrove in this vid: @5:02 @13:24

This study, https://www.watershedecology.org/uploads/1/2/7/3/12731039/osland_et_al._2019-_temperature_thresholds_for_black_mangrove_freeze_damage_mortality_and_recovery.pdf, puts leaf damage threshold for black mangrove at -4*C/~25F. 

 

undamaged Casuarina @ 14.33

 

A Mexican weather station less than 10 miles to the south on the coast (but without the extensive system of bays surrounding SpaceX) briefly dipped to 24.8F and was below 26F for only about an hour and <28F for 4 hours. 

https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/sites/obhistory.php?station=MTAT4&network=MX_TP_DCP&metar=0&madis=0&year=2021&month=2&day=15&sortdir=asc

Tweet from a prominent resident claiming a low of 26F: Also note the sun arriving (iirc, it was cloudy/overcast on South Padre for most of the day)

 

Warmest spot in Texas??

It’s possible this was the warmest spot in TX, but we know SPI just to the north had multiple stations reporting 23f. Brownsville appeared to be the warmest spot, probably due to some urban heating. 

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Westchase | 9b,  St. Petersburg | 9b,  Laurel | 10a

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19 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

It’s possible this was the warmest spot in TX, but we know SPI just to the north had multiple stations reporting 23f. Brownsville appeared to be the warmest spot, probably due to some urban heating. 

Seems every mile (literally) south made all of the difference. San Fernando only 80 miles south of Brownsville and a similar distance from the coast only got to 28F. 

Also as stated above, only 11 miles south of Boca Chica the low was 24.8F and only <26F for an hour. SpaceX/Boca Chica is 5 miles south of the southern tip of South Padre Island. 

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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7 hours ago, richtrav said:

Down but not out

Royals Pt Isabel.jpg

Downtown Brownsville?  That's amazing that any royal survived those temps.  Yeah I want the seeds once they mature.

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Brevard County, Fl

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10 hours ago, richtrav said:

Small mangroves at SPI and on the Laguna are fine, larger ones have some scorch but little if any stem damage

Small mangrove.jpg

Mangroves SPI.jpg

More pix, please! Did any coconuts in TX survive? What about other tropical? 

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6 hours ago, Jimbean said:

Downtown Brownsville?  That's amazing that any royal survived those temps.  Yeah I want the seeds once they mature.

That's in Port Isabel. A number of royals are already pushing new growth in southern Hidalgo and Cameron counties. Doubt there is any special genetics to these royals imo. 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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That was in Port Isabel, but I’ve also seen ones pushing green fronds in Bayview, South Padre, Hidalgo and Donna. All the coconuts I’ve seen look pretty bad, can’t tell if they’re going to make it or not. 

Cocos.jpg

Cocos close.jpg

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It looks like RGV will come out of this horror show much better than expected!

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What you look for is what is looking

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On 3/11/2021 at 7:15 AM, Jimbean said:

Downtown Brownsville?  That's amazing that any royal survived those temps.  Yeah I want the seeds once they mature.

Roystonea Regia  'Rio Grande'

Edited by AnTonY
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  • 1 month later...
On 3/11/2021 at 1:22 PM, richtrav said:

That was in Port Isabel, but I’ve also seen ones pushing green fronds in Bayview, South Padre, Hidalgo and Donna. All the coconuts I’ve seen look pretty bad, can’t tell if they’re going to make it or not. 

Cocos.jpg

Cocos close.jpg

I agree. Thus far I have gone to check up on two coconuts that I know of (one in Los Fresnos and one in Brownsville) and they are both gone unfortunately :( Imo I feel the only place that can possibly have live coconuts is South Padre Island. I would be very surprised to see any live coconuts inland. I have a young coconut that I brought in for the freeze that is still alive. Still hoping for the best when it comes to the other coconuts here. I am very curious to see how the tall coconuts at the Flamingo Motel fared.

On the other hand, many royals still show signs of life! However there are a number of very large royals that got completely totaled and have their crowns dangling to the ground. Which is weird to me because I have a royal that is literally only like 3 feet tall, completely exposed to the cold (and lost all foliage at that) but survived the freeze! It’s growing back wonderfully. 

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5 hours ago, LF-TX said:

I agree. Thus far I have gone to check up on two coconuts that I know of (one in Los Fresnos and one in Brownsville) and they are both gone unfortunately :( 

Gone as in removed or just not green? Still a longshot but the SPI coconut did not push out something green until around June after the Feb 2011 freeze 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/24/2021 at 1:31 PM, Xenon said:

Gone as in removed or just not green? Still a longshot but the SPI coconut did not push out something green until around June after the Feb 2011 freeze 

I’ve checked up on three. 2 are GONE gone (cut down) and one is still standing with its fronds completely brown. Granted I could only see the tips of these fronds since most of the crown is hiding behind a fence. 

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1 hour ago, LF-TX said:

I’ve checked up on three. 2 are GONE gone (cut down) and one is still standing with its fronds completely brown. Granted I could only see the tips of these fronds since most of the crown is hiding behind a fence. 

A neighbor of mine down my street has confirmed that his 6-7 foot coconut (might be bigger by this time, this coco hides on the south side of his house and I have not been over since before the pandemic) has SURVIVED the 2021 freeze. A small amount of hope! I’m very surprised. This is in Los Fresnos just north of Brownsville which likely fell below or just at the minimum low of 22 degrees. 
May I also add that two out of three hibiscus species here at home have also survived. They were completely ripped of their foliage and are now growing back from their base. I was not expecting this all either! 
 

In other parts of town around Brownsville, I have also seen a couple of royal poincianas start to grow again from their trunks — also good news! There are still way too many that are likely dead and have since been cut down but it is nice to see that some will survive and will likely propagate just fine in the future to come. 
 

For the Royal palms, we’re still not looking too hot. There are a number that have a shown signs of life but the number of royals that are bald still outnumber those who look to have survived. Let’s hope this week’s rainy forecast kick starts them back to life. Here in Los Fresnos I have seen some lose ALL of their royals at home. One home in particular had four royals lining their driveway (each about 40-50 feet tall), all their crowns are completely rotted and have fallen off the trunk. 

 

 

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On 5/10/2021 at 2:34 PM, LF-TX said:

A neighbor of mine down my street has confirmed that his 6-7 foot coconut (might be bigger by this time, this coco hides on the south side of his house and I have not been over since before the pandemic) has SURVIVED the 2021 freeze. A small amount of hope! I’m very surprised. This is in Los Fresnos just north of Brownsville which likely fell below or just at the minimum low of 22 degrees. 

That is great! I keep checking on the coconut palm on Campeche (earlier pix) about once a week to see if there is any movement.  It looks much worse now, but the newest fronds/spears are still pointed up and there is still just a touch of green left in the few remaining petioles.  I am hopeful that it will surprise us in another few weeks.

Has anyone checked on the coconut palms at the Flamingo hotel?  Those are just about the biggest in the state and should have had some urban heat island protection in that location.

 

Every Christmas palm that I knew about before the vortex is dead.  I'm guessing there are a few hidden away, but I have no idea how they have fared.

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Clay

South Padre Island, Zone 10a

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On 5/10/2021 at 12:34 PM, LF-TX said:

A neighbor of mine down my street has confirmed that his 6-7 foot coconut (might be bigger by this time, this coco hides on the south side of his house and I have not been over since before the pandemic) has SURVIVED the 2021 freeze. A small amount of hope! I’m very surprised. This is in Los Fresnos just north of Brownsville which likely fell below or just at the minimum low of 22 degrees. 
May I also add that two out of three hibiscus species here at home have also survived. They were completely ripped of their foliage and are now growing back from their base. I was not expecting this all either! 
 

In other parts of town around Brownsville, I have also seen a couple of royal poincianas start to grow again from their trunks — also good news! There are still way too many that are likely dead and have since been cut down but it is nice to see that some will survive and will likely propagate just fine in the future to come. 
 

For the Royal palms, we’re still not looking too hot. There are a number that have a shown signs of life but the number of royals that are bald still outnumber those who look to have survived. Let’s hope this week’s rainy forecast kick starts them back to life. Here in Los Fresnos I have seen some lose ALL of their royals at home. One home in particular had four royals lining their driveway (each about 40-50 feet tall), all their crowns are completely rotted and have fallen off the trunk. 

 

 

Definitely keep tabs on the surviving royals.  

Did any royals survive outside of extreme south Texas?

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Brevard County, Fl

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I doubt there will be any surviving royals outside of the RGV.  I've seen about 5 royals in the Mercedes area pushing green.  I've also seen about 5 royals and about 4-5 Foxtails in the Weslaco area pushing green.  At least it won't be a total annihilation of royals and other tropicals in the valley.

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From what I've been told and from recent aerial photos and real estate listings, Brownsville is seeing the best recovering with regards to tropical stuff by a mile. Especially central and southeast Brownsville. Most royal palms (hundreds/thousands?) there survived and many already have several leaves. Anywhere north or west of Brownsville looks a lot worse, including the coast though there will probably still be a lot of survivors there and in the McAllen Area just due to the sheer number of them planted. 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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12 hours ago, Austinpalm said:

That is great! I keep checking on the coconut palm on Campeche (earlier pix) about once a week to see if there is any movement.  It looks much worse now, but the newest fronds/spears are still pointed up and there is still just a touch of green left in the few remaining petioles.  I am hopeful that it will surprise us in another few weeks.

Has anyone checked on the coconut palms at the Flamingo hotel?  Those are just about the biggest in the state and should have had some urban heat island protection in that location.

 

Every Christmas palm that I knew about before the vortex is dead.  I'm guessing there are a few hidden away, but I have no idea how they have fared.

Richard said a few weeks ago that the Flamingo coconuts are still there and still untrimmed. No green yet though. The Polyalthia are coming back from the base.

There are some Adonidia on the south side of a building in Port Isabel that look like they will squeak by.

How is everything else on the island? Are the Veitchia dead dead now? I noticed there is a lot of delayed damage at the coast, a lot of the Norfolk pines that looked good more than a month ago are now completely bronze.  

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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38 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Richard said a few weeks ago that the Flamingo coconuts are still there and still untrimmed. No green yet though. The Polyalthia are coming back from the base.

There are some Adonidia on the south side of a building in Port Isabel that look like they will squeak by.

How is everything else on the island? Are the Veitchia dead dead now? I noticed there is a lot of delayed damage at the coast, a lot of the Norfolk pines that looked good more than a month ago are now completely bronze.  

Thanks for the info about the Flamingo coconuts.  Sounds good about the Polyalthia and Adonidia. 

The Veitchia in my neighbors backyard appears on its way to returning to health.  Others I have seen on the island are looking poorly or have already been removed.

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Clay

South Padre Island, Zone 10a

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  • 1 month later...

It's interesting that Avicennia are the most cold-hardy mangroves in North America and Australia. Over here they grow around the Victorian coastline, but not in Tasmania.

Philip Wright

Sydney southern suburbs

Frost-free within 20 km of coast

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  • 3 weeks later...

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On 7/9/2021 at 4:52 PM, philinsydney said:

It's interesting that Avicennia are the most cold-hardy mangroves in North America and Australia. Over here they grow around the Victorian coastline, but not in Tasmania.

What species of mangroves grow around the Victorian coastline? And how far down?

I was under the understanding that the mangroves that grow around the northern tip of New Zealand (down to the Bay of Plenty on the East Coast and just below Raglan on the West) were the southernmost / most distant from the Equator in the world.

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1 hour ago, sipalms said:

What species of mangroves grow around the Victorian coastline? And how far down?

I was under the understanding that the mangroves that grow around the northern tip of New Zealand (down to the Bay of Plenty on the East Coast and just below Raglan on the West) were the southernmost / most distant from the Equator in the world.

They grow in Westernport Bay and Corner Inlet near Wilson's Prom. Maybe Port Phillip Bay as well. I don't know how that latitude compares with the NZ ones.

Philip Wright

Sydney southern suburbs

Frost-free within 20 km of coast

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  • 2 months later...

Also I thought many of the tropical look alikes such asuch as queens and royals and majestic  and plateau coconut coconut were 25゚ Hardy all day and that Christmas palms had a tiny bit of Hardiness. 

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To clarify how did the lookalike tropicals fare or are they not common there? All the news seems to be full tropicals in South tx and cold hardy sabal etc in the rest of state. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/16/2021 at 8:33 AM, Xerarch said:

Name anywhere else in the world at 26 degrees latitude on the coast that can get that cold

Yeah, that's something that really pisses me off about the South Texas Coast and RGV.  What bad luck to be exposed to such cold on the rare occasion so far south!

John

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/1/2021 at 11:34 PM, richtrav said:

There are a couple of trunking coconuts left in Matamoros

 

Matamoros.JPG

Great!!!  I figured there would be, especially if they are mature pure Mexican Talls, which should be slightly more cold hardy than the pure Jamaican Talls that survived the 1989 freeze in coastal Central Florida, and from what I understand, those Jamaican Talls were exposed to temps 2F to 4F colder, so it should be no surprise at all that there are survivors in Matamoros.

John

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