Pindo palm success in zone 7b?

[knikfar]

I live in Raleigh NC, in zone 7b but just over the line from 8a. In fact, some of our region is in 8a. I only see small pindo palms here, most likely planted in the last few years. So I'm wondering if anyone has had any success growing in a pindo in a similar zone on a longer term basis? I've read online that some people have been growing them around here for years but I've yet to see any large specimens. I've also read that Butia eriospatha (Wooly Jelly Palm) is the hardiest of the butias. But I can't seem to find those anywhere. Only butia capitata. 

[climate change virginia]

success rate is 50/50 if you don't protect it its a goner sooner or later

[PalmatierMeg]

Any Butia in Raleigh lives on borrowed time. Sooner or later your winter roll of the dice will come up snake eyes. I'm not sure how much hardier eriospatha is than B. odorata (almost all so-called B. capitata are B. odorata - capitata are rare). But you'll never find an eriospatha at your local Big Box chain store or even most independent nurseries nearby. I also wouldn't trust most internet or auction websites not to bait-and-switch you, if they even know about eriospatha in the first place.

What I can say is that there are members of IPS on PalmTalk who know their palms and won't take advantage of you. But you'll have to do some research and searching. Maybe a PTer in North or South Carolina can give you a source. There's also North Texas Coldhardy Palms, Jungle Music, even Floribunda.

[NCFM]

Here are some established specimens north of Charlotte: 

Large Butia Palms Spotted in Zone 7b - COLD HARDY PALMS - PalmTalk

[NBTX11]

Good rule of thumb.  If you don't see mature adult plants in your area, then it's not fully hardy in your area.  Chances are, someone tried before you did.

[SEVA]

I’ve been growing Butia spp. in my garden that is slightly farther inland near the 7b/8a transition area for about 10 years now. When I lived in Raleigh, I saw a Butia sp. with maybe 3-4’ of trunk near Schenck Forest. I think it was visible on street view, but maybe someone can find it before I do. 

[knikfar]

On 2/11/2021 at 8:58 AM, SEVA said:

I’ve been growing Butia spp. in my garden that is slightly farther inland near the 7b/8a transition area for about 10 years now. When I lived in Raleigh, I saw a Butia sp. with maybe 3-4’ of trunk near Schenck Forest. I think it was visible on street view, but maybe someone can find it before I do. 

I’ve heard about that one before. I wish I knew where it was so I could check it out. 

[knikfar]

On 2/11/2021 at 8:58 AM, SEVA said:

I’ve been growing Butia spp. in my garden that is slightly farther inland near the 7b/8a transition area for about 10 years now. When I lived in Raleigh, I saw a Butia sp. with maybe 3-4’ of trunk near Schenck Forest. I think it was visible on street view, but maybe someone can find it before I do. 

Do you know where near Schenke Forest? I've tried looking on streetview but to no avale. 

[WSimpson]

Put it in a great microclimate and they can get big . Full sun , southern exposure on the south side of the house with no wind  . Mine has survived through one winter of 4F and one winter at 5F without protection . Fronds closest to the house did better during those cold snaps . 

Will

 

[WSimpson]

On April 9th , 2013 this was planted here ;

 

 

 

Here it is late last winter . It has taken over the Chamaerops humilus  :

Sorry about duplicated pictures .

Below  is on 4/9/2013

Will

Edited March 30, 2021 by Will Simpson

[knikfar]

On 3/30/2021 at 7:17 PM, Will Simpson said:

Put it in a great microclimate and they can get big . Full sun , southern exposure on the south side of the house with no wind  . Mine has survived through one winter of 4F and one winter at 5F without protection . Fronds closest to the house did better during those cold snaps . 

Will

 

I planted it up against a tall willow oak, maybe ten feet away from my house. It's on the trees south side so it'll get lots of sun in the winter. Do you think a tree will provide a microclimate similar to a house? 

[Chad king NC]

The one down the street from Plant Delights didn't survive the 2018 winter.

[knikfar]

2 hours ago, Chad king NC said:

The one down the street from Plant Delights didn't survive the 2018 winter.

Right. But that was a 100 year cold event, just like what happened in Texas this past winter. My sister lost a very large pindo at her house in Wilmington in 2018. And Wilmington has pindos everywhere. 

[Npeterh]

Mine survived -2F in Dallas, lost the fonds but already has 4 new ones.

[Chad king NC]

On 6/17/2021 at 4:18 PM, knikfar said:

Right. But that was a 100 year cold event, just like what happened in Texas this past winter. My sister lost a very large pindo at her house in Wilmington in 2018. And Wilmington has pindos everywhere. 

We had a long duration of cold in 2018, but the minimum temps were not out of zone with exception to our coastal areas. 

[SeanK]

Jelly palms don't tolerate freezing precipitation in the bud. ATL to CLT is notorious for deadly ice storms. Can't say if these extend to Raleigh.

[knikfar]

15 hours ago, SeanK said:

Jelly palms don't tolerate freezing precipitation in the bud. ATL to CLT is notorious for deadly ice storms. Can't say if these extend to Raleigh.

Raleigh and Charlotte are almost identical when it comes to climate. So we definitely get the ice storms. That being said, I see a lot of pics on social media of large pindos growing in both Atlanta and in Charlotte. 

[knikfar]

On 6/20/2021 at 9:29 PM, Chad king NC said:

We had a long duration of cold in 2018, but the minimum temps were not out of zone with exception to our coastal areas. 

We had a low of 4 degrees in 2018 here in Raleigh. That's definitely a zone 7a winter, not 7b. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

We hit 5 degrees several days in a row in austin tx and had over a hundred hours below freezing, with 6 inches of snow and multiple nights of ice yet butias, trachy’s, Phoenix canariensis and most dacty’s, Sabal Mexicana and palmetto, Filifera pretty much all came back. Washingtonia hybrids at maybe 65% and robustas at 5%. Find some survivor butia seeds from someone down here and I’d bet those could survive. Anything coming from Florida won’t 

[WSimpson]

Mine just flow9E32A2CE-FA23-4200-8A12-B40875DBB85B.heicered for the first time . It has 3 more spathes ready to open . Two have opened . 

Will

9E32A2CE-FA23-4200-8A12-B40875DBB85B.heic

[WSimpson]

I have 2 spathes that opened and 3 more are ready to pop .

Will

[Dartolution]

On 6/17/2021 at 3:18 PM, knikfar said:

Right. But that was a 100 year cold event, just like what happened in Texas this past winter. My sister lost a very large pindo at her house in Wilmington in 2018. And Wilmington has pindos everywhere. 

This is a very good point. 

It could be argued that just because you have a rare - or very extreme event - doesn't mean that you can't grow a palm in your location. 

It does mean that you'll likely get years and years of enjoyment out of it - possibly a lifetime - but it won't likely survive an eternity there. 

It would be unfair to say that you cant grow, say, royals in Texas anymore (in the parts that were severely frozen and had large mature species growing previously). 
They can grow, and likely reach maturity, but they may not survive another century. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

51 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

This is a very good point. 

It could be argued that just because you have a rare - or very extreme event - doesn't mean that you can't grow a palm in your location. 

It does mean that you'll likely get years and years of enjoyment out of it - possibly a lifetime - but it won't likely survive an eternity there. 

It would be unfair to say that you cant grow, say, royals in Texas anymore (in the parts that were severely frozen and had large mature species growing previously). 
They can grow, and likely reach maturity, but they may not survive another century. 

Absolutely right. We lost basically all of our robustas in Austin after snowmagaeddon this year, but 50 miles south in new braunfels you start seeing them come back and then by the time you are in downtown SA the majority are back. Hopefully in a few decades you'll see 40-60 footers again. 

Us Texans learned a lot this year. Our palms had no business coming back after 5 days in a row with an inch or more of snow on the ground and consecutive nights of 14,7,4, and 7 days in a row where high was 32 or less.. What saved us was the drought we were in beforehand. Same thing happens in New Mexico with their washy's surviving in zone 7 climates. 

I think your best shot on east coast is planting it in an elevated area where it doesn't catch as much runoff water, watering it yourself when you need it to and then let it dry out in the winter. I would also think an industrial fan on a low setting during snow or ice events to prevent to much from accumulating would help or just to dry out the tree

[Sabal King]

On 6/17/2021 at 3:35 PM, Npeterh said:

Mine survived -2F in Dallas, lost the fonds but already has 4 new ones.

Curious but are you in Texas?  Also, where did you source yours from?

[knikfar]

On 6/27/2021 at 12:30 AM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Absolutely right. We lost basically all of our robustas in Austin after snowmagaeddon this year, but 50 miles south in new braunfels you start seeing them come back and then by the time you are in downtown SA the majority are back. Hopefully in a few decades you'll see 40-60 footers again. 

Us Texans learned a lot this year. Our palms had no business coming back after 5 days in a row with an inch or more of snow on the ground and consecutive nights of 14,7,4, and 7 days in a row where high was 32 or less.. What saved us was the drought we were in beforehand. Same thing happens in New Mexico with their washy's surviving in zone 7 climates. 

I think your best shot on east coast is planting it in an elevated area where it doesn't catch as much runoff water, watering it yourself when you need it to and then let it dry out in the winter. I would also think an industrial fan on a low setting during snow or ice events to prevent to much from accumulating would help or just to dry out the tree

And I think what we all know is that climate change is making our weather more sporadic. Although our climate is generally warming, we're seeing more intense fluctuations in both heat and cold, which includes snow and/or ice. I think more people will be able to grow palms in the coming years but I also think all of us, even those in areas that never had to worry about the cold hardiness of their palms, will need to be prepared to protect our palms from extreme weather events. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

2 hours ago, knikfar said:

And I think what we all know is that climate change is making our weather more sporadic. Although our climate is generally warming, we're seeing more intense fluctuations in both heat and cold, which includes snow and/or ice. I think more people will be able to grow palms in the coming years but I also think all of us, even those in areas that never had to worry about the cold hardiness of their palms, will need to be prepared to protect our palms from extreme weather events. 

I don’t know what it’s like for you guys but in Central Texas here we can grow pretty much anything we want except for 2-3 days per year. That’s the case in much of the southeast as well. I think perhaps there are still undiscovered ways to protect palms in the winter. Because it is certainly worth it. Even with all the palms Texas lost this year, if you could have kept them 5 degrees warmer tons more would have survived