anyone here dont use fertlizers?

[Palmfarmer]

I know they can be a really quick fix if the soil is not ideal nutrient wise for the palm, however would some homemade compost with a great variety of things coupled with mulch do allmost as well? 

[mnorell]

Yes of course, that is nature's way! But the only problem is that fresh mulch and (relatively new) compost is going to use nitrogen, rather than to give it up to the plants, unless it is already well composted. It will take some time until it can be used by the plants. I usually add some commercial fertilizer when planting, and if I have some mulch/compost I may include it in the mixture. After that I am terribly lazy about fertilizing. I do it sometimes, but I try to use mostly organic fertilizers. Here in the USA there is a company called Espoma that has high-quality organic fertilizers with various included bacteria and other microbes that help in maintaining soil health. There may be an equivalent product-line in Mexico. The only problem is that they may include animal-based components that attract "problems." I have never noticed a problem at our house in Florida, but at our house in the Sonora Desert, it attracts large numbers of flies and it makes it impossible to work in the yard, they are much worse than mosquitos! So you have to be aware of a few issues, and maybe just try until you find "your way" and see some results. But your general approach is good, not only environmentally but because you will not accidentally burn the plants by overfertilizing.

[Palmfarmer]

  On 1/20/2021 at 3:38 AM, mnorell said:

Yes of course, that is nature's way! But the only problem is that fresh mulch and (relatively new) compost is going to use nitrogen, rather than to give it up to the plants, unless it is already well composted. It will take some time until it can be used by the plants. I usually add some commercial fertilizer when planting, and if I have some mulch/compost I may include it in the mixture. After that I am terribly lazy about fertilizing. I do it sometimes, but I try to use mostly organic fertilizers. Here in the USA there is a company called Espoma that has high-quality organic fertilizers with various included bacteria and other microbes that help in maintaining soil health. There may be an equivalent product-line in Mexico. The only problem is that they may include animal-based components that attract "problems." I have never noticed a problem at our house in Florida, but at our house in the Sonora Desert, it attracts large numbers of flies and it makes it impossible to work in the yard, they are much worse than mosquitos! So you have to be aware of a few issues, and maybe just try until you find "your way" and see some results. But your general approach is good, not only environmentally but because you will not accidentally burn the plants by overfertilizing.

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Yes i actually bought a Fertilizer like that was 60% organic fertilizer it said and the rest humus. It had had all the micronutrients palms need. I will try it once the nights get consistantly mild. 

So far what i have done is used some commercial compost and watered it really well into the soil around the palms and topped it off with a layer of wood chips. previously used a all porpuse fertilizer 17-17-17 NPK, but it had none of those important micronutrients palms can get defieciant at further down the line.

[mnorell]

It is probably worth it to understand the geology of your garden and then figure out what nutrients you may or may not need to supply. I just looked up Durango and it seems that it has varied geology, in places extraordinarily high in iron, in others it is volcanic, etc. Palms in particular are fussy about some of the "micronutrients" (as opposed to macronutrients N-P-K), and you should pay attention to the form of those nutrients (sulfate, phosphate, oxide, sucrate) in the fertilizers you use, to make sure that it will be available to your plants. This is often a function of the soil pH. As an example, in South Florida, where limestone is everywhere and the pH is usually very high (also the irrigation water is very high pH), it is important to avoid any fertilizers that are based on oxides, as the nutrients will be "locked up" by the soil and the plant can never access it. There, one must be careful to buy fertilizers based on sulfates and/or sucrates in that high-pH environment. So at the very least you might want to test the pH of your soil, and the pH of your irrigation water. And then adjust accordingly.

It may or may not apply, but Tim Broschat is the current authority on palm fertilization, and he has studied it for many, many years, particularly in relation to the peculiarities of Florida's soil. If you google his name with "palm" and "fertilizer" you will come across many publications on the internet (many from the University of Florida) that have much good information in them. And you may also want to invest in his book (he is co-author), Ornamental Palm Horticulture. It is a very good treatise on the details of palm cultivation. 

[WaianaeCrider]

Started my palm collection around 1998.  I have used fertilizer off and on, mostly off and my palms keep growing.  Maybe slower, but they are growing.  Main thing to keep them alive is WATER.  When I got lazy about water and didn't check timers and hoses for weeks/months I've lost some small and some big ones.  From time to time rats would chew holes in my poly pipe feeder hoses.  If I pay attention to sudden rapid growth of weeds I'd find them easy.

[redant]

I only fertilize the small needy ones. I do use a lot of horse manure around specific dry sandy areas. Big palms don't need fert IMO.

[sonoranfans]

The need for fertilizer depends on the palm species and the soil you have.  Natures way was that these palms adapted over millions of years to the soil and climate of their native habitat.  Then you put them in your soil, and your climate, and see what happens.  Some palms dont like or need lots of humus bismarckia and borassus Ae come to mind.  Some palms prefer a different, alkaline pH which is hard to maintain in constant humus application.  Here in sandy soils, potassium is rinsed out of soils so you might need more than humus/organics to properly feed those cuban copernicias(they like alkaline soil too).  If you dont have much natural rain in your area and/or clay soils organics might be able to keep up the potassium and other micros.  The proof is in the palms, are they happy?  If it took you 2x as long to grow that big beccariophoenix would your organic fertilizer be worth it?  Manure still pollutes waterways in a rain runoff so its not as environmentally friendly as you may think.   By not using NPK you may rule out being able to grow some species to look their best.  No one strategy fits all for fertilization regimens or soil contents.  If you intend not to use NPK fertilizer you shold probably research what to grow first before planting.

[mnorell]

Another issue is input/output...because in practice, in residential and commercial landscapes, amendment is usually necessary in all but the most natural garden settings that use an organic, "no exit, all return" mulching system. In the Florida Keys, there is an almost hysterical desire among some homeowners for an uptrimmed garden, and I kid you not, there is one house near us that has about ten barrels a week waiting for garbage pickup with nothing but Cocos and Dypsis lutescens fronds. It is horrifying to me to think about the nutrient export going on in that yard (and many other yards), particularly when the substrate is nothing but limestone rock and the only noticeable input is glyphosate. If you remove not only carbon but the nitrogen, potassium, manganese, magnesium, boron, etc. that is a **finite** resource in the soil, there are going to be major problems over the long term without a matching input regime. In California's hyper-manicured low desert of Palm Springs-Rancho Mirage-La Quinta, every June a swarm of landscapers descend on the Washingtonia robusta, W. filifera and Phoenix dactylifera to prune off literally tons of leaves and leaf-bases. This is especially noticeable of course with Washingtonia robusta, of which there may be roughly half a million trees in the Coachella Valley. It's hard for me to believe that there is any long-term health for these palms without some sort of fertilization regime, considering what is taken away. In Florida it is the Sabals and Cocos that are trimmed to within inches of their lives it seems, every year, to the great benefit of the landscape maintenance firms that scare homeowners into an annual "hurricane cut" with no simultaneous education on the fertilization required to counterbalance the trimming. What has been done annually to all the Cocos on Ohio Key at the Sunshine Key RV Resort is just shy of criminal IMHO.

[sonoranfans]

Excellent points mike, I digest my smaler leaves like livistona, archies, kentiopsis and satakentia but I need a "palm leaf chipper" for royals, bismarckias etc.  But it seems like wood chippers are not effective on palm leaves.  Hurricane cuts are not needed for most palms, they survived in hurricanes before cultivation, its what they are adapted to do.

[Dunedin Steve]

Nope, zero fertilizers -- Except for fruit trees.   I'm close to beach and prone to flooding (salt) so a few years ago, I started adding mulch-dirt-rocks-mulch-dirt-rocks around the house to raise elevation.   Keep it kinda watered, and the mulch decomposes fast.  I get truckloads of it delivered for free from local tree companies.  Nbors having a pool installed?  I ask for their dirt fill.   I've raised my yard prolly close to five feet and haven't stopped yet.   Stuff grows like crazy.   Big nightcrawler worms showed up.   Plus I've always had 6-8 chickens that wander the yard, adding nitrogen.   Nice copernecias, huge bizzies,  latans, varieties of royals and more common stuff, as well as gumbo limbos, bamboo, etc.    The saltwater was deadly -- Even grass/Floratam got torched...  Thing about the mulch: when it's fresh off the truck, it gives off HEAT -- I guess from starting to decompose, so don't surround anything with too much of it, or just keep it kinda wet and cooled off.

 

Onward and upward..!

[Palmfarmer]

  On 1/20/2021 at 3:49 PM, sonoranfans said:

The need for fertilizer depends on the palm species and the soil you have.  Natures way was that these palms adapted over millions of years to the soil and climate of their native habitat.  Then you put them in your soil, and your climate, and see what happens.  Some palms dont like or need lots of humus bismarckia and borassus Ae come to mind.  Some palms prefer a different, alkaline pH which is hard to maintain in constant humus application.  Here in sandy soils, potassium is rinsed out of soils so you might need more than humus/organics to properly feed those cuban copernicias(they like alkaline soil too).  If you dont have much natural rain in your area and/or clay soils organics might be able to keep up the potassium and other micros.  The proof is in the palms, are they happy?  If it took you 2x as long to grow that big beccariophoenix would your organic fertilizer be worth it?  Manure still pollutes waterways in a rain runoff so its not as environmentally friendly as you may think.   By not using NPK you may rule out being able to grow some species to look their best.  No one strategy fits all for fertilization regimens or soil contents.  If you intend not to use NPK fertilizer you shold probably research what to grow first before planting.

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Thanks for the input. I dont mind NPK or syntetic fertilizers I just wanted to know if a spesific palm fertlizer with all those micronutrients was needed for some of them. 

Palms I grow currently in the ground are. Livestona Chinensis, Majesty palm, Robilinis, Queens, Bismarck, Dypsis lutescens, Washies and a Pindo.

All seems to be happy campers except the Dypsis. they grow slow, yellowing fronds, and grey burnt tips. that however might come from transplant shock and getting used to the sunshine or to much or little water, dry air etc.

My soil is on the clay side and slightly sandy as well but it really depends on the spot of the garden it drains at medium speed.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Palmfarmer

[sgvcns]

  On 1/20/2021 at 11:57 PM, Dunedin Steve said:

Nope, zero fertilizers -- Except for fruit trees.   I'm close to beach and prone to flooding (salt) so a few years ago, I started adding mulch-dirt-rocks-mulch-dirt-rocks around the house to raise elevation.   Keep it kinda watered, and the mulch decomposes fast.  I get truckloads of it delivered for free from local tree companies.  Nbors having a pool installed?  I ask for their dirt fill.   I've raised my yard prolly close to five feet and haven't stopped yet.   Stuff grows like crazy.   Big nightcrawler worms showed up.   Plus I've always had 6-8 chickens that wander the yard, adding nitrogen.   Nice copernecias, huge bizzies,  latans, varieties of royals and more common stuff, as well as gumbo limbos, bamboo, etc.    The saltwater was deadly -- Even grass/Floratam got torched...  Thing about the mulch: when it's fresh off the truck, it gives off HEAT -- I guess from starting to decompose, so don't surround anything with too much of it, or just keep it kinda wet and cooled off.

 

Onward and upward..!

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So with the soil level rising so much are the flags lowering in relative terms?

[sonoranfans]

Humus is good for helping salt tolerance, and salty sand is not a great soil for many palms.  I see lots of palms there that dont need micros,  Bizzies dont need anything their native soil is lateritic.  Royals are native to florida so they dont either, triangles, hard to kill here, very adaptable.  I dont see any copernicias, a baileyana would be a testament to success in K level retention.  Seawater does bring some minerals with it.  Probably half my palms dont really need palm fertilizer.  I use it on the ones that either respond to it or are notorious for needing it.  Nice jungle, but I am confused about the 5' addition of soil.  Did you bury the slab or is the ground that heavily sloped that you can add 5' without doing that?  Mulch added is quickly digested here, it doesnt accumulate much as the microbes eat it up in the hot/wet summer.   Once the mulch is digested you are left with rock I expect. I have added 20-25 cubic yards of mulch in 10 years to 2000 square feet of garden and I have basically ~6 inches of rich soil on top.   I find mulching absolutely necessary, but clearly not sufficient to prevent K or Mg deficiency in cuban copernicias(my "canary in a coal mine").  Here is are my cubans with minimal deficiency

[redant]

  On 1/20/2021 at 11:57 PM, Dunedin Steve said:

Nope, zero fertilizers -- Except for fruit trees.   I'm close to beach and prone to flooding (salt) so a few years ago, I started adding mulch-dirt-rocks-mulch-dirt-rocks around the house to raise elevation.   Keep it kinda watered, and the mulch decomposes fast.  I get truckloads of it delivered for free from local tree companies.  Nbors having a pool installed?  I ask for their dirt fill.   I've raised my yard prolly close to five feet and haven't stopped yet.   Stuff grows like crazy.   Big nightcrawler worms showed up.   Plus I've always had 6-8 chickens that wander the yard, adding nitrogen.   Nice copernecias, huge bizzies,  latans, varieties of royals and more common stuff, as well as gumbo limbos, bamboo, etc.    The saltwater was deadly -- Even grass/Floratam got torched...  Thing about the mulch: when it's fresh off the truck, it gives off HEAT -- I guess from starting to decompose, so don't surround anything with too much of it, or just keep it kinda wet and cooled off.

 

Onward and upward..!

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Nice jungle, love all the rocks, that's about a million dollars or rocks in fl : )