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Suggestions on King Palm placement


cdpmath

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Hi everyone. Am going to buy three king palms for my house.  2 are three trunk and the other is a four trunk.  I was told by the nursery that multi trunk palms grow shorter than a single trunk. Is this true? I would love for them to stay below 30ft if possible. 
 

What are the chances of a trunk dying from a four trunk palm? I would assume the palms are always competing for nutrients. 

how close to the eave of the house can they be planted?

And lastly, what’s a fair price for a king Palm that reaches 12’ (three trunk) and 15’ (four trunk) from soil to top of fronds. 

Thank you.

Pictures: the white stick is 8’

 

1DFD5BC3-A84B-4D42-B673-9680E547FD14.thumb.jpeg.599fffe4602163f2a22767e2ef643dd4.jpeg

Edited by cdpmath
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There are a lot of factors in your equation. First where are you located and what is your climate zone?

As far as a quad king palm. I planted one 3 years ago and at no point did the smallest one die. I removed it this summer as they are Cunninghamiana and I planted a few groupings to serve as canopy for more exotic palms. Over time I will continue to edit them out as the other palms mature. 

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As far as king palms go, competing for nutrients is not an issue. Pink rot is usually the main reason Archontophoenix dies unless it’s a watering issue. Kings need lots of water. They are not a drought tolerant palm. 

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1 hour ago, James B said:

There are a lot of factors in your equation. First where are you located and what is your climate zone?

As far as a quad king palm. I planted one 3 years ago and at no point did the smallest one die. I removed it this summer as they are Cunninghamiana and I planted a few groupings to serve as canopy for more exotic palms. Over time I will continue to edit them out as the other palms mature. 

Hi,

 

my growing zone is 10.  I’m in Southern California.  Based on the picture, how much do you think the Palm is?

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1 hour ago, James B said:

As far as king palms go, competing for nutrients is not an issue. Pink rot is usually the main reason Archontophoenix dies unless it’s a watering issue. Kings need lots of water. They are not a drought tolerant palm. 

Thank you for the response. I’ll make sure to water when I get them.

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6 hours ago, Gonzer said:

Don't plant bromeliads underneath, the falling seeds are a bitch.

Lol thanks for the info.  What plants do you suggest I do under the canopy. Also, how much would you say the palm shown in the picture is? Just want to make sure I’m not getting ripped off

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9 minutes ago, cdpmath said:

Lol thanks for the info.  What plants do you suggest I do under the canopy. Also, how much would you say the palm shown in the picture is? Just want to make sure I’m not getting ripped off

Why don't you just tell us what you are paying?

This is probably a $299 plant at a big box in Norcal.  In SoCal, I wouldn't pay more than $200 for a plain old A. cunninghamiana of this size.

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Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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"how close to the eave of the house can they be planted?"

Most people underestimate the growth of their palms and plant way too close to house, fences, sidewalks, etc. I consider this more of a landscape design question than a planting question. How do you want your garden to look? How much space do you have? What other features must be considered? Is your garden area flat or sloped? What is the exposure -N,S,E,W? Is this a blank canvas or are there existing plants you wish to keep?

As to price, these palms grow so fast, I would buy smaller palms and enjoy watching them grow. I planted an Archontophoenix maxima from a 4-inch pot in 2008 and it is double height of the single story house now. (coastal San Diego) Even within four years, it was forming a trunk. I'm not suggesting you start that small, but hinting at the rapid growth rate. You could start with palms in 15-gallon pots and if well watered, they will grow very quickly for you. Remember, the taller they are when you plant, the faster they will hit that 30-foot mark.

Edit: One more thing about price -- it varies greatly with your location. King palms are free in some places where they are so common, people don't want to buy them, but prices kick in and escalate dramatically in places where they are less common and harder to grow.

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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24” box size King Palms in SoCal would be $199-$250 at reasonable nurseries. Paying more than that wouldn’t be ideal unless the palms were some rare form of King like Myolensis that had super genes. At the end of the day though nobody can really tell you what to pay for a palm. It’s personal decision thats different from person to person. 

Edited by James B
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3 hours ago, James B said:

24” box size King Palms in SoCal would be $199-$250 at reasonable nurseries. Paying more than that wouldn’t be ideal unless the palms were some rare form of King like Myolensis that had super genes. At the end of the day though nobody can really tell you what to pay for a palm. It’s personal decision thats different from person to person. 

That’s a picture I took from moon valley nursery...they are asking $700 for the plant in the picture delivered and planted.  Do you have any suggestion on any nursery I can call to see if I get get it cheaper?  

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4 hours ago, Kim said:

"how close to the eave of the house can they be planted?"

Most people underestimate the growth of their palms and plant way too close to house, fences, sidewalks, etc. I consider this more of a landscape design question than a planting question. How do you want your garden to look? How much space do you have? What other features must be considered? Is your garden area flat or sloped? What is the exposure -N,S,E,W? Is this a blank canvas or are there existing plants you wish to keep?

As to price, these palms grow so fast, I would buy smaller palms and enjoy watching them grow. I planted an Archontophoenix maxima from a 4-inch pot in 2008 and it is double height of the single story house now. (coastal San Diego) Even within four years, it was forming a trunk. I'm not suggesting you start that small, but hinting at the rapid growth rate. You could start with palms in 15-gallon pots and if well watered, they will grow very quickly for you. Remember, the taller they are when you plant, the faster they will hit that 30-foot mark.

Edit: One more thing about price -- it varies greatly with your location. King palms are free in some places where they are so common, people don't want to buy them, but prices kick in and escalate dramatically in places where they are less common and harder to grow.

This is my plan...

I was told they are not fast growers...I just don’t want to wait years for it to grow. Want that instant curb appeal.

63EFC56E-7544-4B3F-BBDA-46654A4A4D0B.png

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5 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Why don't you just tell us what you are paying?

This is probably a $299 plant at a big box in Norcal.  In SoCal, I wouldn't pay more than $200 for a plain old A. cunninghamiana of this size.

Wow, please let me know where I can buy it that cheap in La Puente, CA.  Maybe I’m just going to the wrong place - Moonvalley Nursery.  They are asking $700 for it.

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1 minute ago, cdpmath said:

Wow, please let me know where I can buy it that cheap in La Puente, CA.  Maybe I’m just going to the wrong place - Moonvalley Nursery.  They are asking $700 for it.

Well it is delivered and planted which counts for a bit.  But I have no idea about prices in your area.  It's a nice palm though.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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5 minutes ago, cdpmath said:

Wow, please let me know where I can buy it that cheap in La Puente, CA.  Maybe I’m just going to the wrong place - Moonvalley Nursery.  They are asking $700 for it.

RUN  from Moon Valley..  Guaranteed you will find a better deal elsewhere, esp. among the many growers down there, who are also members here ..and likely have some extra $ to pick up a few more, even less common palms for your project on your visit. Win-win :D 

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10 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

RUN  from Moon Valley..  Guaranteed you will find a better deal elsewhere, esp. among the many growers down there, who are also members here ..and likely have some extra $ to pick up a few more, even less common palms for your project on your visit. Win-win :D 

Need contact info.

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I bought some triples in 15 gallon containers in June of 2019 from a local grower in Vista and they are almost that size now. at ~1.5 yrs later  They were charging $60 for triples or $40 for singles in 15 gallon. Its a good manageable size to plant and you could just rent a pickup if you don't own one and get a kid , spouse or buddy to help pick them up and plant them. I agree with others that Moon is on the expensive end and was not impressed with their service when I bought a palm from them in the past. Once you've paid, your experience may not be so great...

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2 hours ago, cdpmath said:

Wow, please let me know where I can buy it that cheap in La Puente, CA.  Maybe I’m just going to the wrong place - Moonvalley Nursery.  They are asking $700 for it.

I'm not in SoCal, but by reputation Moon Valley are complete rip-off artists.  

Now, as others have intimated, I have a recommendation for you...buy 5 or 15 gallon kings, given how explosively fast they are.  That's the sweet spot, in terms of size.  Box plants tend to be stunted, since kings can't really be field grown.  I have planted 24" box kings and 15 gallon plants just feet apart - the smaller plants are larger after a couple of years, and 2-3x the size in 5 years.  I will never plant anything larger than a 15 again.

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Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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Please, someone PM cdpmath for an intervention before he spends $700 on kings. 

Note to OP: all in good fun and good faith. I hope you get messages from PalmTalk peeps near you who can guide you to some good deals. Reconsider 15-gallon pots, they are the way to go. These are generally not slow growing palms, despite what you were told. Just be prepared for your water bill. You said you want instant curb appeal. Fair enough, if you are also okay with medium-term telephone poles.

By the way, we are going into winter. Most people would have planted palms from a mild climate earlier or later than now. Maybe someone in your climate can weigh in on whether or not to hit the "pause" button.

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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5 minutes ago, Kim said:

Please, someone PM cdpmath for an intervention before he spends $700 on kings. 

Note to OP: all in good fun and good faith. I hope you get messages from PalmTalk peeps near you who can guide you to some good deals. Reconsider 15-gallon pots, they are the way to go. These are generally not slow growing palms, despite what you were told. Just be prepared for your water bill. You said you want instant curb appeal. Fair enough, if you are also okay with medium-term telephone poles.

By the way, we are going into winter. Most people would have planted palms from a mild climate earlier or later than now. Maybe someone in your climate can weigh in on whether or not to hit the "pause" button.

100% on smaller plants, Kim!

I plant kings all year round.  a) they are cool weather growers, quite happily pushing new fronds in the 60s, and b) they are cheap as chips to replace - unless you buy from Moon Valley! 

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Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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3 hours ago, cdpmath said:

That’s a picture I took from moon valley nursery...they are asking $700 for the plant in the picture delivered and planted.  Do you have any suggestion on any nursery I can call to see if I get get it cheaper?  

Mike at Palm Plantation in Riverside sells A.Alexandrae in 24” box size for $160. If he has in stock you probably will not find cheaper. Moon Valley price gouges like crazy. But they will plant it for you and guarantee it and will replace it if it dies. So while way overpriced it comes down to what works for you. Personally I would not pay $700 for a King Palm when so many nurseries have them available. You can also get 24” box size Kings at big box stores in the area for $199.

Edited by James B
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4 hours ago, cdpmath said:

Wow, please let me know where I can buy it that cheap in La Puente, CA.  Maybe I’m just going to the wrong place - Moonvalley Nursery.  They are asking $700 for it.

Nice to meet you!

What city are you in? 

$700 for kings? Might be worth it planted  in a tough place but let’s find out more?

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

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CDPMath,   I join the chorus here, don't patronize Moon, and purchase smaller plants.  Jungle Music sells a king palm form with superior genes, they call it 'teracarpa'.  Welcome to Palmtalk ! :)

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San Francisco, California

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1 hour ago, James B said:

Mike at Palm Plantation in Riverside

@cdpmathI bought my Bismarckia and Arenga engleri from Mike and I live in Texas!  Good plants, nice guy and good prices too!

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Jon Sunder

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Awesome! Thank you for the lead James.  Am curious, what’s the size of a 15g king from Palm plantation? Is it single, double?, tri, quad. 

 

How tall are they?

 

I will call them tomorrow but figure some of you may know.  I appreciate all of the help all of you have given me.  I need to cancel my order from moon valley too.

 

Also, what’s the best king palm that’ll stay less than 30ft from soil to top of fronds.

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Moon valley was trying to sell me a 25 gal Bismarckia for 1100 dollars and I bought a bizzy the same size from a local grower for 280.. I really don’t know how they come up with their prices.

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58 minutes ago, cdpmath said:

Awesome! Thank you for the lead James.  Am curious, what’s the size of a 15g king from Palm plantation? Is it single, double?, tri, quad. 

 

How tall are they?

 

I will call them tomorrow but figure some of you may know.  I appreciate all of the help all of you have given me.  I need to cancel my order from moon valley too.

 

Also, what’s the best king palm that’ll stay less than 30ft from soil to top of fronds.

You’d have to call him. That I could not answer. As for 30 feet. Cunninghamiana and regular Alexandrae are probably your best bet. Maybe Purpurea.

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27 minutes ago, xoRudy said:

Moon valley was trying to sell me a 25 gal Bismarckia for 1100 dollars and I bought a bizzy the same size from a local grower for 280.. I really don’t know how they come up with their prices.

Thinking they figure people who really aren't " plant savy " or simply too busy to care  will assume because it it more expensive,  it must be better than doing some comparison shopping, before making a purchase.  The more people that " go for it ", the more they can quietly up their prices..  Kind of like people who choose to spend $250.+ bucks on a pair of jeans, or other basic clothing, etc..  Makes absolutely no sense to me,  ..but who am i?..  " Used car sales people " usually avoid me, or quickly learn to, lol. 

***Speaking generally***, 

As for the " They'll deliver/plant it, replace it" yada yada..  they/ others pitch,  If someone needs a hand planting, or picking something up, call up someone/ others you know and make planting day a BBQ w/ some adult beverages, if one so indulges.. Why waste the extra $ ( $$$ ). The whole " But X place is better because they have a plant guarantee "  Classic sales spiel.. Ignore it..  no one can guarantee nothing will ever go wrong w/ living things, which inc. plants..  You can however guarantee something will go wrong ..if you don't spend time doing necessary research,  first.  Some mistakes are just that,  others?, ...and iv'e witnessed the extreme example of this, should get another hobby / live in an apartment, surrounded by Concrete. 

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12 hours ago, cdpmath said:

That’s a picture I took from moon valley nursery...

Moon Unit Nursery also has occasional sales on tropical plants suitable for outdoors in Greenland.

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Even Lowe’s has King palms in 5 gallon to 24” box. I’ve bought big healthy 15 gallon multis for $69.00 for a client.  Just remember that they LOVE water. It’s impossible to over water them, really. The ones in this photo in my Nor Cal yard were planted out of one gallon containers less than 15 years ago. They’re all more than 30.’ Multi trunked one’s will grow every bit as fast and tall as single when watered properly. 

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CBB72FA3-BCDD-451C-A730-9415E59CBC03.thumb.jpeg.6be82a3dabb85ca92e2f558e047cc194.jpeg

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C402BCEB-8946-4A42-B824-0C7D6AE7E397.thumb.jpeg.6ead300f2f30ca1afa040fb14222851c.jpeg

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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I believe if you’re looking for Cunninghamiana then absolutely HD and be a close and easy option. They also deliver for a fee as well. Especially if someone is looking for 24” box size. Here they charge $199 for 24” box Kings. The only specialty nursery that beats them in price at that size is Palm Plantation in Riverside. 

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  • 2 years later...

I have a triple king palm and a double king palm planted about 3 feet apart. Is this an issue? The guy that planted them says it isn't. They are around 6 feet tall right now. I can't find any info online regarding this. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you in advance.

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24 minutes ago, Steele2003 said:

I have a triple king palm and a double king palm planted about 3 feet apart. Is this an issue? The guy that planted them says it isn't. They are around 6 feet tall right now. I can't find any info online regarding this. Any advice would be helpful. Thank you in advance.

I don’t think so but I prefer the jungle look in my garden. My old garden had multiple triples lined up with smaller palms beneath them that were more tender. Really it comes down to what you are trying to achieve in your garden.

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In Hawaii where they have taken over on the big island, they are all growing very close together and get along just fine...

 

At least you don't have Albizias. 

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Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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6 hours ago, James B said:

I don’t think so but I prefer the jungle look in my garden. My old garden had multiple triples lined up with smaller palms beneath them that were more tender. Really it comes down to what you are trying to achieve in your garden.

 

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7 hours ago, James B said:

I don’t think so but I prefer the jungle look in my garden. My old garden had multiple triples lined up with smaller palms beneath them that were more tender. Really it comes down to what you are trying to achieve in your garden.

So having a doue and triple planted literally 3 feet a part will be fine? I read they need more space. Seems like they'd  be growing into one another, no?

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