Palmetto trees in Central NC (Johnston County, Wake County) - more to come!

[Cevven]

Hello people. I decided to take a few pictures and a video of a couple palmettos (thought they could of been Sabal Birminghams but they actually look like the BHI or SC variety - but be free to correct me) at the entrance in an exurban subdivision near Benson, NC, just out of the piedmont. I been seeing them for years when I passed by this place, so I had to finally video document them for you guys. Sorry for the low light, I took the pictures around sunset. They look a decent size but I was told by a resident who been there since 2004 that those trees been there when she moved there - so I'm assuming the trees are 16 years old or more. However, this part of Johnston County is in zone 8A according to the USDA (even though they had an 7B or 7A winter in January 2018 - and as you can see, the trees survived those single digit temps obviously). I was also told that the trees periodically get sprayed with some type of chemical but I'm not sure if it's to protect the trees from single-digit or less temperatures or what not (didn't get a chance to get the details from the lady about it). This part of NC averages in the 50's for highs and 30's for lows according to official data BUT major temp swings are common here. While we are rated as humid subtropical, our winters are quite continental and unstable where we get randomly hit with arctic blasts that kills or damages a lot of vegetation from time to time. 

Here are some a couple of photos for the Palmtalk family: 

Here is another photo of one in a neighborhood near my home in Raleigh I took tonight

This is the video of the palmetto trees I was referring to in the beginning of the post: 

 

[kinzyjr]

@Cevven Welcome to the forums and thank you for sharing the photos and videos!  The contrast of palms and and a real fall really makes them stand out.

[Allen]

Those are some nice palmetto!

[Reyes Vargas]

Those are some nice looking palmettos.  It's nice to see that whomever trims these palms knows what they are doing.  Usually they just destroy them and only leave 2 or 3 fronds.

[Cevven]

13 hours ago, Reyes Vargas said:

Those are some nice looking palmettos.  It's nice to see that whomever trims these palms knows what they are doing.  Usually they just destroy them and only leave 2 or 3 fronds.

Yeah, the resident told me there used to be 4 palmetto trees on the property but one was struck by lightning and she wasn't sure why they removed the other one. In this part of NC, you are pretty limited on what kind of palms you can grow unfortunately. You pretty much limited to the at least some of the Trachycarpus variety (i.e. Windmill palms - considered temperate zone palms - windmill palms to coconut/royal palms is like paw paws to mangoes), some of the Sabal Palmetto variety (Cabbage palmettos are pretty marginal here from what I see but you do see a few in the area - Sabal Birmingham and Dwarf Palmetto are certainly hardy though), Pindo palm can grow here but if the temperatures are forecasted to hit below 15F, I would protect them JUST in case, and of course Needle palms can grow here (they grow without winter protection in "icebox" and "sub-boreal" states in the Midwest like Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, etc - it's hardy to zone 5). What annoys me a lot about NC's climate is that we are subject to extreme Arctic blasts past the degree other subtropical locations on other continents are. East China at the same latitudes can get chilly but their mean minimum temps don't get as low as ours - so they can support more subtropical vegetation than we can do in NC. The Appalachian Mountains is just a speed bump for the Canadian High and the Polar Vortexes that dip down to mid-latitudes and even low latitudes from to time. If the Appalachian Mountains was higher in elevation to filter out the extreme cold from these air masses, we will be able to support way more evergreen and subtropical vegetation. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Cevven

[Cevven]

Took a picture of a few windmill palms. Found one in a small town near Raleigh that is a decent size IMO. Pullen Park has the best windmills in the area I heard (I pass by there a lot when I'm in Raleigh but never actually went inside the park - will go there soon and provide photos when I get a chance). I'm not a huge fan of windmills when they are in the early stages but they look great IMO when they are mature, even though they are not a tropical palm by any stretch of the imagination. 

Windmill (Trachycarpus Fortunei) palm in Wake County (near Garner, NC) 

 

Fairly mature windmill palm in Angier, NC (Harnett, County) at a local restaurant downtown. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Cevven

[Alex High]

5 hours ago, Cevven said:

Took a picture of a few windmill palms. Found one in a small town near Raleigh that is a decent size IMO. Pullen Park has the best windmills in the area I heard (I pass by there a lot when I'm in Raleigh but never actually went inside the park - will go there soon and provide photos when I get a chance). I'm not a huge fan of windmills when they are in the early stages but they look great IMO when they are mature, even though they are not a tropical palm by any stretch of the imagination. 

Windmill (Trachycarpus Fortunei) palm in Wake County (near Garner, NC) 

 

Fairly mature windmill palm in Angier, NC (Harnett, County) at a local restaurant downtown. 

 

 

 

 

Welcome to Palmtalk! Wow, that second windmill looks really nice! I went on Google Maps and found the palm and it looks like it is growing in a nice grassy lot where hopefully it can naturalize. I just hope they don't develop on the lot and remove the palm! I have seen that happen far too often. It is nice to see some good sized palms growing that far inland. The palmettos looks great too, they are big! Thanks for sharing!

Location of Large Windmill Palm

Edited December 15, 2020 by PalmsUSA

[PalmsNC]

7 hours ago, Cevven said:

Took a picture of a few windmill palms. Found one in a small town near Raleigh that is a decent size IMO. Pullen Park has the best windmills in the area I heard (I pass by there a lot when I'm in Raleigh but never actually went inside the park - will go there soon and provide photos when I get a chance). I'm not a huge fan of windmills when they are in the early stages but they look great IMO when they are mature, even though they are not a tropical palm by any stretch of the imagination. 

Windmill (Trachycarpus Fortunei) palm in Wake County (near Garner, NC) 

 

Fairly mature windmill palm in Angier, NC (Harnett, County) at a local restaurant downtown. 

 

 

 

 

The biggest windmill palm in front of the pond at pullen park is dead, it was dying past few months but its dead now. RIP

[Cevven]

11 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

The biggest windmill palm in front of the pond at pullen park is dead, it was dying past few months but its dead now. RIP

Are you serious? That tree had to be decades years old. I passed by Pullen Park countless times but never actually went inside the park to see palm trees. I seen photos online, though. 

[Alex High]

19 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

The biggest windmill palm in front of the pond at pullen park is dead, it was dying past few months but its dead now. RIP

NO!!! I was going to visit Pullen Park in a couple of weeks! I hope they replant and replace it! Thank you!

PalmsUSA

Edited December 16, 2020 by PalmsUSA

[PalmsNC]

6 hours ago, PalmsUSA said:

NO!!! I was going to visit Pullen Park in a couple of weeks! I hope they replant and replace it! Thank you!

PalmsUSA

Its ok though, I got plenty of seeds from there this spring. I think I had them in my bag too long tho none came up. Also, the palms there have spread everywhere , into places they weren't planted. You can find sabal minors popping up on the railroad tracks, further up near the tennis courts, etc. A lot of palms to see! Also, my favorite thing is the magnolia tree next to the carousel.... go inside the tree and you will find at least 20 small palms growing under it! Bit of a hidden secret I found when I was a kid, its open enough inside the tree though for an adult as well!

[Alex High]

12 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

Its ok though, I got plenty of seeds from there this spring. I think I had them in my bag too long tho none came up. Also, the palms there have spread everywhere , into places they weren't planted. You can find sabal minors popping up on the railroad tracks, further up near the tennis courts, etc. A lot of palms to see! Also, my favorite thing is the magnolia tree next to the carousel.... go inside the tree and you will find at least 20 small palms growing under it! Bit of a hidden secret I found when I was a kid, its open enough inside the tree though for an adult as well!

Awesome, thanks! I will definitely check it out if I got to the Raleigh area.

[Cevven]

14 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

Its ok though, I got plenty of seeds from there this spring. I think I had them in my bag too long tho none came up. Also, the palms there have spread everywhere , into places they weren't planted. You can find sabal minors popping up on the railroad tracks, further up near the tennis courts, etc. A lot of palms to see! Also, my favorite thing is the magnolia tree next to the carousel.... go inside the tree and you will find at least 20 small palms growing under it! Bit of a hidden secret I found when I was a kid, its open enough inside the tree though for an adult as well!

Wow, that's dope. Yeah I wish there was more naturalization of such vegetation in NC outside of the coastal areas of the state.  I would like to see more broadleaf evergreens, more windmills, sabals, and even needles. The thing about piedmont and even much of the coastal plain region is the large number of deciduous hardwood trees. Now I don't have a huge dislike for them, I love how they look in the summer here, a very lush green, giving the forests sorta of a tropical look. I'm not just a huge fan of the dead winter look full of barren trees. However, like you see in some of the forests in southern SC, GA, FL, I want to see more longleaf pine, maybe even slash with some more broadleaf evergreens and naturalized palmetto trees and even windmills. I was raised between Fayetteville NC and Lowcountry SC (living overseas in Germany as a child too in the 90's) where both of them full of pine forests with some hardwoods. 

[PalmsNC]

On 12/17/2020 at 6:16 AM, Cevven said:

Wow, that's dope. Yeah I wish there was more naturalization of such vegetation in NC outside of the coastal areas of the state.  I would like to see more broadleaf evergreens, more windmills, sabals, and even needles. The thing about piedmont and even much of the coastal plain region is the large number of deciduous hardwood trees. Now I don't have a huge dislike for them, I love how they look in the summer here, a very lush green, giving the forests sorta of a tropical look. I'm not just a huge fan of the dead winter look full of barren trees. However, like you see in some of the forests in southern SC, GA, FL, I want to see more longleaf pine, maybe even slash with some more broadleaf evergreens and naturalized palmetto trees and even windmills. I was raised between Fayetteville NC and Lowcountry SC (living overseas in Germany as a child too in the 90's) where both of them full of pine forests with some hardwoods. 

Raleigh area is full of pines I would say, it’s area slightly further west that really are more hardwood dominated like Charlotte and Greensboro .  Forests down east nc like the Croatoan , goose creek , and the forests immediately on the outerbanks are very green . The ones on the coast are almsot 100% green! I have pictures of wild palms from the Croatoan forest growing with large live oaks . Heck some wild homeless guy built a hut out of the fronds there ! Very green and I visited just 2 weeks ago !

[Cevven]

On 12/20/2020 at 4:48 PM, PalmsNC said:

Raleigh area is full of pines I would say, it’s area slightly further west that really are more hardwood dominated like Charlotte and Greensboro .  Forests down east nc like the Croatoan , goose creek , and the forests immediately on the outerbanks are very green . The ones on the coast are almsot 100% green! I have pictures of wild palms from the Croatoan forest growing with large live oaks . Heck some wild homeless guy built a hut out of the fronds there ! Very green and I visited just 2 weeks ago !

Yup. I used to live in Charlotte. Charlotte is more hardwood dominated with significant pockets of loblollies and shortleaf, when you go to the southside of the metro (i.e. Rock Hill, Fort Mill, Providence/South Park/S. Charlotte and Carowinds area) - you see more pine trees, including the more 'subtropical-esque' longleaf pine (those areas in the Charlotte metro, especially the SC sections are a solid 8A in hardiness - so more palms can be grown in those areas). I agree that the Triad has less pines (Loblollies are there but mostly shortleaf when it comes to the Southern Yellow pines - Greensboro is colder in the winter (but still 'mild' by NYC or Detroit standards) and has more continental influences in it's climate than places like Fayetteville (8A on 2012 USDA map, 8B hardiness based on 1991-2020 figures - their mean min is 16F - Raleigh is 12F) and even Raleigh (transition point from a more subtropical-like climate to a more continental temperate climate) and Charlotte.  

That's dope they are crowing cabbage palms in Croatan, that area is a more of a legit 8B (Eastern Coast of NC) in hardiness and I love the climate there relative to the rest of the state. I know it gets colder there even (SC has a better climate IMO, longer growing season). 

 

[PalmsNC]

10 hours ago, Cevven said:

Yup. I used to live in Charlotte. Charlotte is more hardwood dominated with significant pockets of loblollies and shortleaf, when you go to the southside of the metro (i.e. Rock Hill, Fort Mill, Providence/South Park/S. Charlotte and Carowinds area) - you see more pine trees, including the more 'subtropical-esque' longleaf pine (those areas in the Charlotte metro, especially the SC sections are a solid 8A in hardiness - so more palms can be grown in those areas). I agree that the Triad has less pines (Loblollies are there but mostly shortleaf when it comes to the Southern Yellow pines - Greensboro is colder in the winter (but still 'mild' by NYC or Detroit standards) and has more continental influences in it's climate than places like Fayetteville (8A on 2012 USDA map, 8B hardiness based on 1991-2020 figures - their mean min is 16F - Raleigh is 12F) and even Raleigh (transition point from a more subtropical-like climate to a more continental temperate climate) and Charlotte.  

That's dope they are crowing cabbage palms in Croatan, that area is a more of a legit 8B (Eastern Coast of NC) in hardiness and I love the climate there relative to the rest of the state. I know it gets colder there even (SC has a better climate IMO, longer growing season). 

 

Raleighs airport station is in the colder part of the county,  the difference between Fayetteville and RDU mean minimum shouldn't be that great, its only 1 degree difference between GSO and RDU apparently! Another station on NCSU campus has a mean minimum of 14 91-20. Also there are places in NC with similar growing seasons and mean minimums as Savannah Georgia and Charleston. Places like Hatteras, Nags Head, and even Manteo and other sound side locations in Hyde and Tyrell county.

[Cevven]

16 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

Raleighs airport station is in the colder part of the county,  the difference between Fayetteville and RDU mean minimum shouldn't be that great, its only 1 degree difference between GSO and RDU apparently! Another station on NCSU campus has a mean minimum of 14 91-20. Also there are places in NC with similar growing seasons and mean minimums as Savannah Georgia and Charleston. Places like Hatteras, Nags Head, and even Manteo and other sound side locations in Hyde and Tyrell county.

Yeah RDU airport is closer to Durham, which is a few degrees colder than Downtown Raleigh.  However, based on 91-20 numbers, Durham is zone 8A and so is Greensboro.  But yea you right, the Outer Banks, the Cape Fear region has longer growing seasons. To be honest, the Flatwoods ecoregion (far eastern NC, coastal Pee Dee and Low Country SC) is my favorite region ecology. I like the mountain region and the air may be cleaner (they great waterfalls and even the water is not as dirty and acidic as Eastern NC waterways), the Pisgaw area got some beautiful coniferous forests (green in the winter in certain parts there). However, the Carolina mountain areas are too cold in the winter but beautiful weather in the spring to early fall.  Eastern NC is not too much warmer in the winter but in general more green in the winter.  There is more subtropical vegetation and the ecosystem there is awesome. You mentioned Crotan National Forest and it's hella green. Eastern NC has some beautiful maritime forests as well, full of live oaks with moss and pines.