tallest hardy palm to zone 7b

[climate change virginia]

I was wondering about some hardy tall palms to zone 7b thanks.  

[Chester B]

Haven't you asked this question already numerous times???

The answer is still the same for your area - only one - Trachycarpus fortunei.  And even then it will need a good sheltered location.

Search through Boca Joe's videos, for his gardening ones.  He lives in your area.  The only trunking palm trees you'll see are Trachycarpus.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BocaJoe/videos

 

 

[Teegurr]

Just now, Chester B said:

Haven't you asked this question already numerous times???

The answer is still the same for your area - only one - Trachycarpus fortunei.  And even then it will need a good sheltered location.

Search through Boca Joe's videos, for his gardening ones.  He lives in your area.  The only trunking palm trees you'll see are Trachycarpus.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BocaJoe/videos

 

 

Yeah, you should know by now, Climate. Seriously. There aren't that many palms that are hardy to zone 7b anyway.

[climate change virginia]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Haven't you asked this question already numerous times???

 

no I havent I asked for feather palms

[Chester B]

12 minutes ago, climate change virginia said:

no I havent I asked for feather palms

Where does it say feather palms?  And feather, pinnate - pretty much the same thing.

I'm going to make this easy for you.  You climate is too cold for just about every type of palm, you are extremely limited.  Stick to this list:

Trachycarpus fortunei with good siting

Needle palm

Sabal minor

Probably Sabal "louisiana"

Trachycarpus wagnerianus with good siting

Everything else won't survive long term without protection.  I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.  That's your ultimate list.   Nothing more, trust me people have tried in your area for decades, if other palms could survive you would see them around.  If you drag the palms inside in the winter than you can grow just about anything.

Asking the same questions over and over with different wording won't give you a different answer.

I used to live in Zone 7a in Ontario, Canada.  No matter how much I read about people in zone 7a palms further south of me, the fact of the matter is no palm can survive. there  Just like where you live you have a very limited selection, you're just going to have to come to terms with this fact. 

 

[DAVEinMB]

@climate change virginia been wondering if these are all legitimate questions. Repeatedly. 

Also been wondering if ur being a troll.

[ahosey01]

5 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@climate change virginia been wondering if these are all legitimate questions. Repeatedly. 

Also been wondering if ur being a troll.

I assume it's a kid with parents who don't monitor internet usage particularly thoroughly.

Likely just needs some guidance.

[Chester B]

He has previously stated that he's 13 years old.  So I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to be as helpful as possible.

However it does allow one to effectively "Spam" the forum, in the same manner as a bot.  

Please read our responses and really take in the information, I think we have all answered your questions multiple times over.  

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Chester B

[JLM]

I have come to terms with my selections. I know my queens will not be long-term in my area. I can replace them and replace them each an every year if they die, but it wont make them anymore hardier. I need to stick with the reliably hardy palms that i see growing in my area. As said above, the Trachycarpus fortunei is about the only tall trunking palm you will manage to grow in the ground in your zone. You can grow bottle palms, foxtail palms, any type of palm you want in a pot if you want to drag them in and out each winter. Whenever your old enough, move to South Florida and start growing coconut palms, but until then you need to come to terms with your options. I might not be much older than you, but i am definetly more accepting when it comes to the options. I might be able to manage some palms here that i dont see growing in the neighborhood, but that doesnt mean they will be hardy to my area.

[PalmatierMeg]

No pinnate/feather palm can survive winter outdoors in your area of VA - Period. Your area is my old stomping ground where I grew up and spent most of my adult life so I know.

@Chester B gave you a list of the few palmate/fan palms you can choose and he may be a trifle optimistic. I like optimism. Enter those species into the project/notebook I suggested you start. Memorize them forward and backward. As my grandmother used to tell me, "That's all there is, there ain't no more."

None of us will live to see the day a coconut palm grows on the Mall in Washington, DC.

[ahosey01]

46 minutes ago, Chester B said:

He has previously stated that he's 13 years old.  So I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt and try to be as helpful as possible.

Nailed it!

[EastCanadaTropicals]

Sabal urseana might work as well

Edited December 8, 2020 by EastCanadaTropicals

[sevapalms]

2 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

no I havent I asked for feather palms

Unfortunately, no pinnate palms are hardy to the climate anywhere in Virginia except for maybe the zone 8a areas in the southeastern part of the state (Virginia Beach, Norfolk, other areas near the Chesapeake Bay and Atlantic Ocean). Even then, the only pinnate palms there that would likely survive an average winter would be one of a handful of Butia species. In your 7b zone, I would suggest trying Trachycarpus fortunei or Trachycarpus wagnerianus if you would like a relatively tall trunking palm (however, they have palmate leaves, not pinnate). In a warmer than average winter in your area you may even manage to get a Butia capitata to survive, but it wouldn't be a long term plant in your area given that even an average 7b winter would likely kill it. If you're really dedicated to getting a pinnate palm to be a long term plant in your garden, you'd have to invest in equipment to protect it from cold snaps.

[climate change virginia]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

Where does it say feather palms?  And feather, pinnate - pretty much the same thing.

I'm going to make this easy for you.  You climate is too cold for just about every type of palm, you are extremely limited.  Stick to this list:

Trachycarpus fortunei with good siting

Needle palm

Sabal minor

Probably Sabal "louisiana"

Trachycarpus wagnerianus with good siting

Everything else won't survive long term without protection.  I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.  That's your ultimate list.   Nothing more, trust me people have tried in your area for decades, if other palms could survive you would see them around.  If you drag the palms inside in the winter than you can grow just about anything.

Asking the same questions over and over with different wording won't give you a different answer.

I used to live in Zone 7a in Ontario, Canada.  No matter how much I read about people in zone 7a palms further south of me, the fact of the matter is no palm can survive. there  Just like where you live you have a very limited selection, you're just going to have to come to terms with this fact. 

 

also i meant i asked about feather palms before and sorry my grammar LHM. ima write down that list thx. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by climate change virginia

[Jimhardy]

Whats in a name.?

[Dartolution]

LOL Some of you guys would make terrible parents!   No patience at all. hahaha cracks me up.

Anyway, 

@climate change virginia It is good that you are passionate about learning how to cultivate one of the most iconic plants on this planet; a taxa in botany that just about every genus and species exudes tropic-esque aesthetics. 

The IPS website is a good place to learn. If you haven't already worked it out, you can view your own topics/posts in your profile activity, and re-read what you've asked previously. Sometimes I forget myself, and have to go back and look (I'm getting old). 

Also, there are several VERY good books about palm cultivation. One of my favorites is the Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms.

This book also gives you a good amount of cultivation information, and plant hardiness ratings. 

Palmpedia is another online website that I feel is useful. 

 

If you like to read, perhaps this book, or one like it, would be a good Christmas present to ask for?

 

Keep the interest alive, and continue your quest for information about this interesting and diverse group of plants. 

Also, don't be afraid to get your hands on some inexpensive seeds either by collection (legally of course), or purchase online and try growing some where you are. Experiment with it!

 

 

[Fallen Munk]

Banana Joe is who you want to follow.  https://www.youtube.com/user/BananaJSSI

[Jimhardy]

Yeah....he's perfect for you.

[climate change virginia]

10 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Banana Joe is who you want to follow.  https://www.youtube.com/user/BananaJSSI

his videos are great his jubaea is looking nice his trachys are tall too his butia is probably the best one ive seen

[knikfar]

I'm also in zone 7B, Raleigh NC. We have lots of different kinds of trachys here and I've never seen anyone protect them in the winter. We also have some fairly tall sabals, not sure of the variety, maybe Bald Head Island? Those don't get protected either. So while its true that there are no feather leaf palms that will survice in 7b, there are still other options that don't need protection. 

[climate change virginia]

7 minutes ago, knikfar said:

I'm also in zone 7B, Raleigh NC. We have lots of different kinds of trachys here and I've never seen anyone protect them in the winter. We also have some fairly tall sabals, not sure of the variety, maybe Bald Head Island? Those don't get protected either. So while its true that there are no feather leaf palms that will survice in 7b, there are still other options that don't need protection. 

I didn't mean feather palms it was my grammar I said I wanted feather palms before now I honestly don't care about what leaf type it is now also im going to buy a bald head palmetto once our frosts are done and I am doing trachies too thanks

[Aidandp]

Possibly a Chilean wine palm, looks similar to a canary island date palm

[ShadyDan]

On 12/8/2020 at 12:37 PM, Chester B said:

.I used to live in Zone 7a in Ontario, Canada.  No matter how much I read about people in zone 7a palms further south of me, the fact of the matter is no palm can survive. there  Just like where you live you have a very limited selection, you're just going to have to come to terms with this fact. 

 

Hey me too! My parents still live in the Niagara region. I’m growing some needle palms and Sabal minor “Cherokee” to try at their place. In a sheltered spot against the house of course. 

[amh]

47 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Hey me too! My parents still live in the Niagara region. I’m growing some needle palms and Sabal minor “Cherokee” to try at their place. In a sheltered spot against the house of course. 

How's the Sabal minor handling the winter so far?

[ShadyDan]

10 hours ago, amh said:

How's the Sabal minor handling the winter so far?

They are still in my greenhouse. Hopefully will be able to plant them next summer if we are allowed to travel again.

[amh]

2 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

They are still in my greenhouse. Hopefully will be able to plant them next summer if we are allowed to travel again.

Okay, does the ground freeze or does the snow provide insulation?

[ShadyDan]

15 minutes ago, amh said:

Okay, does the ground freeze or does the snow provide insulation?

Really depends on the winter (Southern Ontario is a wild ride of temperature swings in the winter) but if there is a cold snap without snow cover the ground will freeze at least a little. With snow cover the ground won’t freeze. Never freezes against their house though. My folks live between Lake Erie and Lake Ontario so that moderates temperature quite a bit compared to places further from the lakes, even further south.

Looking like a nice mild winter for them so far. They had some 25c+ days back in November for about a week, which is pretty unheard of for anywhere in Canada that time of year. 

[amh]

41 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Really depends on the winter (Southern Ontario is a wild ride of temperature swings in the winter) but if there is a cold snap without snow cover the ground will freeze at least a little. With snow cover the ground won’t freeze. Never freezes against their house though. My folks live between Lake Erie and Lake Ontario so that moderates temperature quite a bit compared to places further from the lakes, even further south.

Looking like a nice mild winter for them so far. They had some 25c+ days back in November for about a week, which is pretty unheard of for anywhere in Canada that time of year. 

If the ground doesn't freeze, they just might make it.

Good luck and keep everyone informed on the progress.

Edited December 17, 2020 by amh

[Chester B]

2 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

Really depends on the winter (Southern Ontario is a wild ride of temperature swings in the winter) but if there is a cold snap without snow cover the ground will freeze at least a little. With snow cover the ground won’t freeze.

The ground will freeze for sure, every year.  How far down can vary.  Yes Winters are mild but all you need is one cold week to screw everything up and there is usually at least one of those.  I used to live about 500 feet from the shore of Lake Ontario in both the Beaches (Zone 7A), Oakville (Zone 6B), 0.5km away when I live in Downtown Burlington (Zone 6B) and prior to that I also lived many years in the North end of St. Catharines (Zone 7A) and in a bad year Lake Ontario and Erie (especially) would freeze pretty far out from shore.  The lakes help a great deal acting as a source of heat in the winter and is the reason why the climate is so mild that far north.

There are a small number of people trying cold hardy palms from Toronto to Niagara.  Rice Road Greenhouses in Welland was my original go to for more tropical plants, but now there are a few others specializing in palms.  I am not aware of anyone having long term success without some form of protection, even if its minimal.  Personally I would always provide some level of protection even for a needle palm.  Zone 7A in Ontario isn't exactly the same as 7A in say Virginia, it stays at the lower end of the zone temps much more each year.

 

[Chester B]

Weather for Niagara Falls, Ontario.  Not exactly bone chilling but not the best for palms.  January and February are usually colder, I always thought once Christmas was over that's when the real winter hits.

[Nj Palms]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Weather for Niagara Falls, Ontario.  Not exactly bone chilling but not the best for palms.  January and February are usually colder, I always thought once Christmas was over that's when the real winter hits.

I agree. Even though I am a far ways south in New Jersey our coldest temps almost always happen after Christmas. 

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:55 PM, Aidandp said:

Possibly a Chilean wine palm, looks similar to a canary island date palm

No they wont survive long enough to get hardy and established. The Jubaea is actually my profile pic, but I'm gonna grow butia x jubaea instead.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

21 hours ago, Chester B said:

The ground will freeze for sure, every year.  How far down can vary.  Yes Winters are mild but all you need is one cold week to screw everything up and there is usually at least one of those.  I used to live about 500 feet from the shore of Lake Ontario in both the Beaches (Zone 7A), Oakville (Zone 6B), 0.5km away when I live in Downtown Burlington (Zone 6B) and prior to that I also lived many years in the North end of St. Catharines (Zone 7A) and in a bad year Lake Ontario and Erie (especially) would freeze pretty far out from shore.  The lakes help a great deal acting as a source of heat in the winter and is the reason why the climate is so mild that far north.

There are a small number of people trying cold hardy palms from Toronto to Niagara.  Rice Road Greenhouses in Welland was my original go to for more tropical plants, but now there are a few others specializing in palms.  I am not aware of anyone having long term success without some form of protection, even if its minimal.  Personally I would always provide some level of protection even for a needle palm.  Zone 7A in Ontario isn't exactly the same as 7A in say Virginia, it stays at the lower end of the zone temps much more each year.

 

What about the far south of Nova Scotia, around Yarmouth or Brier Island, its even milder there. However I don't know how long their cool temperature periods are, so I think trachycarpus is best for the area.

Edited December 18, 2020 by EastCanadaTropicals

[amh]

1 hour ago, Nj Palms said:

I agree. Even though I am a far ways south in New Jersey our coldest temps almost always happen after Christmas. 

Same here in the south, some of our coldest temps can be in March.

[RaleighNC]

Perhaps the tallest palm for 7b of eastern US might be Trachycarpus takil, if you can find a real one.  There are pictures of some remarkably tall ones on Palmpedia.

[Chester B]

2 hours ago, RaleighNC said:

Perhaps the tallest palm for 7b of eastern US might be Trachycarpus takil, if you can find a real one.  There are pictures of some remarkably tall ones on Palmpedia.

Anecdotal evidence from people who have these say they are slightly less hardy than regular fortunei. I have one and it’s the only Trachycarpus I’ve ever had spear pull when it was briefly exposed to 25F. It recovered and hasn’t done it since but I was pretty disappointed at the time. 

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 12/8/2020 at 5:21 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

No pinnate/feather palm can survive winter outdoors in your area of VA - Period. Your area is my old stomping ground where I grew up and spent most of my adult life so I know.

@Chester B gave you a list of the few palmate/fan palms you can choose and he may be a trifle optimistic. I like optimism. Enter those species into the project/notebook I suggested you start. Memorize them forward and backward. As my grandmother used to tell me, "That's all there is, there ain't no more."

None of us will live to see the day a coconut palm grows on the Mall in Washington, DC.

Maybe butia x Jubaea will survive a few years.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:06 PM, knikfar said:

I'm also in zone 7B, Raleigh NC. We have lots of different kinds of trachys here and I've never seen anyone protect them in the winter. We also have some fairly tall sabals, not sure of the variety, maybe Bald Head Island? Those don't get protected either. So while its true that there are no feather leaf palms that will survice in 7b, there are still other options that don't need protection. 

Raleigh is still borderline 8a, Ive seen some Sabal Palmetto there that have been there for over 10 years, and Trachycarpus that are numerous decades old.  Ive heard of a few butia too but can not confirm.  Trachycarpus are the dominant palm in the area for sure besides minor and needles.  

[RaleighNC]

On 12/20/2020 at 12:12 PM, Chester B said:

Anecdotal evidence from people who have these say they are slightly less hardy than regular fortunei. I have one and it’s the only Trachycarpus I’ve ever had spear pull when it was briefly exposed to 25F. It recovered and hasn’t done it since but I was pretty disappointed at the time. 

I have had three small takil in the ground for the last couple of winters, and have not yet had and spears pull. Granted, the last couple of winters have been relatively mild so they really haven't been tested. BTW, have you found them to grow more slowly than other Trachycarpus? Mine have been noticably slower.

Edited December 25, 2020 by RaleighNC

[Chester B]

6 hours ago, RaleighNC said:

I have had three small takil in the ground for the last couple of winters, and have not yet had and spears pull. Granted, the last couple of winters have been relatively mild so they really haven't been tested. BTW, have you found them to grow more slowly than other Trachycarpus? Mine have been noticably slower.

I don’t notice it being slow, faster than similar sized waggies for sure. All of my fortunei were purchased larger so I can’t compare. I transplanted it mid summer and since it has put on 3 fronds. Still growing albeit slowly through winter.  I find that with Trachycarpus they are all kind of slow until they get a couple feet of trunk and then they take off.