Royals next to houses

[enigma99]

In your opinion what is the closest you can plant a royal to a wall and not run into trouble in a few years?

[WaianaeCrider]

  On 10/27/2020 at 4:18 AM, enigma99 said:

In your opinion what is the closest you can plant a royal to a wall and not run into trouble in a few years?

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Are you referring to the diameter of the trunk or damage to it from falling very HEAVY fronds?

[kinzyjr]

  On 10/27/2020 at 6:30 AM, WaianaeCrider said:

Are you referring to the diameter of the trunk or damage to it from falling very HEAVY fronds?

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Good question!  This is often overlooked.  That said, probably the oldest one here in town is tight up against a house.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0112732,-81.9485036,3a,75y,173.61h,93.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s63HGe7BqIFviWGEbn6Nk8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[Johnny Palmseed]

Like @WaianaeCrider asks, what is your concern? Trunk diameter, rootball diameter, of frond fall?Are you talking about a wall of a house or a wall like a fence? Personally, I would stay far away from the house. The fronds get huge and heavy and when they fall, they can inflict damage. Mine are not close to the house but when a hurricane ripped some off, they smashed my gutters pretty bad, put a gash in some shingles and were a pain to get off the roof. In the example from @kinzyjr, I guarantee that when that palm was growing over the 10-12’ range it was “brooming” the shingles every time the wind blew. It would require removing the fronds on the house side in order to protect the shingles. It’s doable but not a great idea. A wall that is free standing would not be concerned about that but you would want to make sure it has a solid foundation before planting a huge palm next to it. Generally speaking I don’t think palm roots will create as much of a problem as say, hardwood trees. But it could cause damage if the wall is not well built. Another lesser concern is seed drop. Even though they are similar age, one of my royals has yet to seed but the other has seeded continuously and profusely for several years. I would hate to have to clean the seeds out of the gutters.

[sonoranfans]

As far as damage its the crownshaft that weighs the most and will do the damage to your roof shingles.  My royals always drop their leaves with the crownshaft hitting within 3-4' of the trunk.  Like a dart they follow the heavy crownshaft.  My closest is 9' from the corner of the roof and I did plant a livistona saribus and some veitchias around it so they take the hit instead of the roof.  So far afgter 10 years, no damage to the roof or the surrounding palms.  Breaking the momentum of a falling leaf is a good strategy, I have a B. alfredii to break the fall of the leaves of my other royal, it "protects" the walking path in principle.  But that alfredii needs to get bigger to do that(currently its 20' overall).

[enigma99]

Thanks for all the replies. I am worried mostly about damage to the roof etc. Good to know 4-5’ is the range they like to damage the most. I have a southern wall which is really warm, and I guess next year I will be digging a hole and planting one there!

[PalmatierMeg]

Ours is about 15' from the house, should be another 5' away. But we manage. Most fronds miss the house but during Irma several fronds bounced across our metal roof and slightly damaged one of our gutters. Left slight dents on the roof but otherwise no problems. A shingle roof in good shape will probably take an occasional frond but I would beware if the roof is old, leaking or starting to fail in case sheathing is rotten. I would never plant a royal right next to our house.

[Palm Tree Jim]

Removed mine about 4 years ago. It was not very close to the house, but anything underneath it was destroyed when the fronds fell. It was easy to manage when it was smaller (removing the fronds myself), but once it was out of reach for me, I did not have a chance to stop them.

My solution was to remove the palm. 

[sonoranfans]

  On 10/27/2020 at 3:53 PM, enigma99 said:

Thanks for all the replies. I am worried mostly about damage to the roof etc. Good to know 4-5’ is the range they like to damage the most. I have a southern wall which is really warm, and I guess next year I will be digging a hole and planting one there!

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Basically the heavier it is(more wet) the closer it will fall to the trunk, parametric physics.  If they ar elighter they can fly further.  Weight will be determined by moisture content(they are ~70% moisture).  The crownshafts of mine when wet weights ~ 2-3x the rest of the leaf and its distributed in a 5-6' crownshaft where the rest of the leaf is 20' long.  This is how I have observed them falling.  If its really wet, its close, when dry maybe 2x as far by 1/2 the weight.  In terms of potential damage from falling leaves, keep it more than 5' from the house.  In IRMA(65-75mph winds for 5-6 hrs) mine has some snapped petioles, no crownshaft fell, again mine is 9' from the closest roof area, a SE corner of the house.  I dont plant other palms within that distance(9') of the royal either.

[DoomsDave]

Royals next to houses can be a mixed bag, though I don't think the problem is damage to a house from the falling leaves. Rather, I think the bigger problem is damage to cars, furniture, smaller plants, or even conks on the noggins of people nearby.

Butch is magnificent, but the falling leaves weigh 60 pounds.

[Ben in Norcal]

  On 10/27/2020 at 3:53 PM, enigma99 said:

Thanks for all the replies. I am worried mostly about damage to the roof etc. Good to know 4-5’ is the range they like to damage the most. I have a southern wall which is really warm, and I guess next year I will be digging a hole and planting one there!

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You can plant it as close as you want, Derrick, since it will be dead by spring. 

Isn't this like your 463rd attempt at a Royal?  I've moved on...

[Brett in Mission Viejo]

60lb leaves falling become a liability at a certain height. I removed it for that reason:

[The Gerg]

I have two in my backyard that are starting to put on a little size but still plenty small enough to manage old leaf bases.           This topic has been discussed in many threads and every time I read about it I ponder whether or not I should remove them. If I would have seen these threads prior to planting them I don’t think I would have planted them. We just had to put our dog down in June and just two weeks ago we got a new puppy. It makes me stop to think what the odds are of one of those 60lb leaves falling down on a dog. 

 

[Frond-friend42]

  On 10/28/2020 at 10:55 PM, Brett in Mission Viejo said:

60lb leaves falling become a liability at a certain height. I removed it for that reason:

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This big tree you took out? Such a beautiful tree. 

Can't the falling fronds just be watched as they get dried out? How often do they fall? (Then you can put signs and caution tape around the area, plus a sonar fence for the pup). 

[DoomsDave]

  On 10/29/2020 at 11:45 AM, Frond-friend42 said:

This big tree you took out? Such a beautiful tree. 

Can't the falling fronds just be watched as they get dried out? How often do they fall? (Then you can put signs and caution tape around the area, plus a sonar fence for the pup). 

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I cried I sobbed, I agreed, then I looked, saw Butch, and revved up the saw.

Sob.

[Frond-friend42]

  On 10/29/2020 at 12:57 PM, DoomsDave said:

I cried I sobbed, I agreed, then I looked, saw Butch, and revved up the saw.

Sob.

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Dave you are joshing around..Did you seriously murder Brett's tree?

[DoomsDave]

  On 10/29/2020 at 1:23 PM, Frond-friend42 said:

Dave you are joshing around..Did you seriously murder Brett's tree?

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No, he hired some people, whom I later hired to murder the Caryotas of Doom, Terror and Destruction in early 2019.

[enigma99]

  On 10/28/2020 at 9:29 PM, Ben in Norcal said:

You can plant it as close as you want, Derrick, since it will be dead by spring. 

Isn't this like your 463rd attempt at a Royal?  I've moved on...

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463rd? no, must be higher! Actually the southern wall is pretty hot, even in the winter. Grows my plumerias, foxtails etc really well. I think a Royal has a good chance there but time it gets above 25-30 ft and then dies, then it was fun while it lasted

Edited October 29, 2020 by enigma99

[sonoranfans]

I learned from palmtalkers not to put royals in traffic areas around the doors or drives of my house.  Having one near an entrance way could be a serious liability.  Only a big wind knocks off a wet leaf in my yard so I dont linger under them when the wind kicks up.  Usually the leaves dry out and then fall at about half the weight.  And a drying leaf foretells that its going to fall soon. Different climates may have different results in how they fall off, wet or dry.  Ideally they are dry when they fall and weigh just 20-30 lbs.

[NOT A TA]

  On 9/5/2022 at 8:45 PM, Cestenert said:

How can I deal with mold and pathogens on the walls?

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Product called Wet and Forget. Use it once a year, start using it right after the next time you have it pressure washed.

[aztropic]

  On 10/27/2020 at 4:18 AM, enigma99 said:

In your opinion what is the closest you can plant a royal to a wall and not run into trouble in a few years?

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I have 2 only 12 and 18 inches away from the house in Arizona. Here,dry fronds present no problem as they only weigh about 5 pounds when they drop from the tree. (yes,I actually weighed a couple) 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[NOT A TA]

  On 9/5/2022 at 11:45 PM, aztropic said:

Here,dry fronds present no problem as they only weigh about 5 pounds when they drop from the tree. (yes,I actually weighed a couple) 

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WOW, here freshly fallen Royal fronds from mature trees weigh so much we cut them in half before picking them up and the halves are still heavy!