Queen palms in Greensboro

[NCFM]

As I was driving home from Lowe’s tonight I noticed these two new additions outside of a local business. Queen palms I think? Of course they have zero chance of surviving long term here, unless they use some serious winter protection methods, but still pretty cool while they last lol

[DAVEinMB]

Hmm

[Jeff985]

Actually they’re foxtails. Even less hardy. 

[JLM]

It kind of looks like royals to me. Pictures during the middle of the day would help. Is there a google maps streetview for this? Interesting indeed!

[NCFM]

15 minutes ago, JLM said:

It kind of looks like royals to me. Pictures during the middle of the day would help. Is there a google maps streetview for this? Interesting indeed!

I doubt it’s up on street view yet as they were just planted recently. I will get more pics next time I drive by during the day 

[NCFM]

1 hour ago, Jeff985 said:

Actually they’re foxtails. Even less hardy. 

Ah. Im rather confused as to why and how they got them. I’m not aware of any place in the Carolinas that sells queens, let alone foxtails that size

[GottmitAlex]

They seem like royals.

Greensboro. 

What are the chances? Mortus est.

 

[palmsOrl]

They look like foxtails to me.  They have 2.5 months or so left so admire them while you can.

Queens could be planted there around March 15 and might be good until December 1 in an average year.

[NCFM]

7 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

They look like foxtails to me.  They have 2.5 months or so left so admire them while you can.

Queens could be planted there around March 15 and might be good until December 1 in an average year.

Yeah, not quite sure what the owner of the business was thinking getting those so late in the season. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Queens do not have crownshafts. Royals and foxtails do. All three are doomed to frigid death in NC

[NCFM]

42 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Queens do not have crownshafts. Royals and foxtails do. All three are doomed to frigid death in NC

Good to know, now I'll be able to tell them apart. Obviously I'm not as familiar with some the species I can't grow here, like those you mentioned.

We can't have any queens (yet), but some people have had success with mules in NC. @Joe NC has a nice one:

It has straps on it because this picture was taken right before Isaias made landfall in the Carolinas. Palm survived unscathed 

Edited August 31, 2020 by NC_Palm_Enthusiast

[PalmatierMeg]

To my knowledge no crownshafted palm can survive in NC

[NCFM]

22 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

To my knowledge no crownshafted palm can survive in NC

Makes sense 

[Joe NC]

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

To my knowledge no crownshafted palm can survive in NC

There was a garden center here in Wilmington nc (zone 8 gardens) that had some sort of Chamaedorea (microspadix?) that were hardy in ground and apparently feely self seeding all over back there.  That place was really neat and very palmy.  The location is apartments or self storage now...  Anyhow I think Chamaedorea have small crownshafts? 

2 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

We can't have any queens (yet), but some people have had success with mules in NC

I'm fairly sure my mule will also die a frigid death during some future polar vortex... Until then I will continue offering whatever protection I can muster and enjoy it while it is around.

I can only assume whoever planted the foxtails in Greensboro assumed that a palm is a palm, and since Trachys do well these will too?  Either that or they have money to burn on expensive fall annuals.

[JLM]

Whenever queens can survive in North Carolina then there will be crownshafted palms all over the place here in the panhandle of Florida!

[NCFM]

1 hour ago, JLM said:

Whenever queens can survive in North Carolina then there will be crownshafted palms all over the place here in the panhandle of Florida!

Maybe in 100+ years of warming trends continue lol. Have you seen the future USDA zone map predictions? Kinda hard to believe 

[NCFM]

1 hour ago, Joe NC said:

There was a garden center here in Wilmington nc (zone 8 gardens) that had some sort of Chamaedorea (microspadix?) that were hardy in ground and apparently feely self seeding all over back there.  That place was really neat and very palmy.  The location is apartments or self storage now...  Anyhow I think Chamaedorea have small crownshafts? 

I'm fairly sure my mule will also die a frigid death during some future polar vortex... Until then I will continue offering whatever protection I can muster and enjoy it while it is around.

I can only assume whoever planted the foxtails in Greensboro assumed that a palm is a palm, and since Trachys do well these will too?  Either that or they have money to burn on expensive fall annuals.

Yeah who knows. I really want to ask the owner, but the business has no sign and it’s surrounded by a tall fence, so tracking him/her down might not be so easy.

Here’s to hoping your mule makes it through future winters. It’s a magnificent specimen for sure 

[JLM]

12 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Maybe in 100+ years of warming trends continue lol. Have you seen the future USDA zone map predictions? Kinda hard to believe 

I dont believe i have. I might have but not sure. Do we know when the zone map will be updated again? 

Edited September 1, 2020 by JLM

[NCFM]

31 minutes ago, JLM said:

I dont believe i have. I might have but not sure. Do we know when the zone map will be updated again? 

I think @RJ posted them in another thread. 

It took them 22 years to publish the 2012 update... so it may be a while unfortunately  

[palmsOrl]

I think the USDA will issue an updated zone map next year (or within the next couple years) once all of the 2020 data is able to be included.  1991-2020 will be the 30-year period of data used for the next zone map.  I am eagerly awaiting the update for my area.

-Michael

[JLM]

22 years? Goodness.

I looked it up, and it shows 9a in may area. Maybe queen palms will become a slightly more frequent palm here.

[PalmsNC]

Cape Hatteras is zone 9A, actually has a slightly milder mean minimum than Savannah Georgia. Makes me wonder what could be grown there if we had a large community on the island.

[PalmsNC]

12 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

I think the USDA will issue an updated zone map next year (or within the next couple years) once all of the 2020 data is able to be included.  1991-2020 will be the 30-year period of data used for the next zone map.  I am eagerly awaiting the update for my area.

-Michael

I am as well, I've looked at some stations in eastern NC that fall under 8B near Cape Hatteras and many are now borderline 9A or even 9A. Speaking on places like Swanquarter and other spots in Hyde  and Dare counties. Cape Hatteras is also an even more solid 9A with a mean minimum of I think 23 91-20 vs 21 81-10.  What will be even more impressive is the expanse of 8B and 8A across the state. 91-20 would have zone 8A extended deep into the piedmont in places like Greensboro, Winston Salem, and even foothill spots like Hickory NC. 8B will cover a much larger and more inland expanse of eastern NC. Fayetteville mean minimum temperature is 15 using 91-20. 7A will pretty much be relegated to higher elevations  with current 7A spots like  Wilkesboro and Mt airy being 7B. Even Asheville would be 7B as well as much of inland Virginia in places like Lynchburg, Roanoke, Charlottesville etc.  8A would push just southeast of Richmond using 91-20, think Richmond has a mean minimum of 9 91-20. 8B would be more solid into Virginia even as Virginia Beach mean minimum 91-20 is 17 degrees ! Jesus! Manteo and Atlantic Beach have mean minimums of 20 91-20, Beaufort NC has a mean minimum of 19!

 

 

Most drastic changes to hardiness zones will be reflected in the south. Ive checked lots of northern stations , a lot are about the same.

Edited September 1, 2020 by PalmsNC

[Joe NC]

https://nca2014.globalchange.gov/report/appendices/climate-science-supplement/graphics/shifts-plant-hardiness-zones

 

If I can just keep my mule palm alive long enough, maybe it will be self sufficient by the time I retire.  

Edited September 1, 2020 by Joe NC

[JLM]

Wouldnt it be something if places like Destin, FL fell under cold 9b. I think we might be getting ahead of ourselves. There will be that one feeze that will erase it all!

[palmsOrl]

The Orlando area of course should have a large "bubble" of 10a on the new map and the area of 10a in the Tampa Bay area should be expanded significantly north and east in many areas.  Lakeland may fall just short of having any 10a show up, but the boundry of 10a in the interior portion of South-Central Florida may creep north a tad in general and on the coasts, 10a should extend to near New Smyrna Beach as the absolute northern extent on the barrier island and should move north a bit on the barrier island of the west coast too.  

The northern extent of the sliver of 10b on the east coast might reach as far north as Cocoa Beach right on the barrier island and we all know the Tampa Bay area already has areas of 10b on some of the islands and little peninsulas.  Overall though, the contiguous sliver of 10b might reach Venice to Sarasota on the Barrier island of the west coast (just a guess there).  There might even be some spots of 11a in the 10,000 islands and even Marco Island on the west side, but I doubt this will show up due to a lack of official data in the former area.  11a might extend as far north as Boca Raton on the Barrier Island and include the cities of Fort Lauderdale and most of Miami and of course the respective beaches.

11b might move northeast to include a greater swath of the FL Keys and I believe Key West itself now is a 12a!  I doubt this will be reflected on the next map though.

-Michael

[Palmlover.]

its probably a foxtail judging by the bushy frawns and green at the top of the trunk

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

On 8/31/2020 at 5:30 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

To my knowledge no crownshafted palm can survive in NC

Chamadorea radicalis and microspadix can. 

[PalmatierMeg]

13 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Chamadorea radicalis and microspadix can. 

Thanks for the info

[ZPalms]

On 8/30/2020 at 8:38 PM, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

As I was driving home from Lowe’s tonight I noticed these two new additions outside of a local business. Queen palms I think? Of course they have zero chance of surviving long term here, unless they use some serious winter protection methods, but still pretty cool while they last lol

Are they still there? Did they protect them or did they just die?

[knikfar]

On 9/8/2020 at 10:11 PM, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Chamadorea radicalis and microspadix can. 

What I'm seeing online is that 20f is about the lowest a chamadorea radicalis can take. Since our temps here in Raleigh usually go below that during the winter, do these palms function as dieback perennials? 

[NCFM]

10 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Are they still there? Did they protect them or did they just die?

They did not protect them so they just died 

[DAVEinMB]

10 hours ago, knikfar said:

What I'm seeing online is that 20f is about the lowest a chamadorea radicalis can take. Since our temps here in Raleigh usually go below that during the winter, do these palms function as dieback perennials? 

C. Radicalis is good for lower than 20F. I have a number of them planted in my yard and they laughed at the freezing rain event and back to back weekends of 19F. No burn, nothing. Same with all my C. Microspadix. Both species are likely good to somewhere in the 15F range before you'd need to protect. Microspadix is a clumping species so that might act like a perennial if you saw complete die back; Radicalis is solitary, if it dies it's not coming back

[JLM]

1 hour ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

They did not protect them so they just died 

The feeling of disappointment is strong with whoever got these planted. I would be willing to bet that they didnt even know what kind of palm it was. 

[DAVEinMB]

3 minutes ago, JLM said:

The feeling of disappointment is strong with whoever got these planted. I would be willing to bet that they didnt even know what kind of palm it was. 

Well if you don't do your research....

[ZPalms]

What a shame 

[knikfar]

16 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

C. Radicalis is good for lower than 20F. I have a number of them planted in my yard and they laughed at the freezing rain event and back to back weekends of 19F. No burn, nothing. Same with all my C. Microspadix. Both species are likely good to somewhere in the 15F range before you'd need to protect. Microspadix is a clumping species so that might act like a perennial if you saw complete die back; Radicalis is solitary, if it dies it's not coming back

Thank you! This is very helpful.

[Laaz]

Jan 2018 we had a freak ice / snow storm. Temp's dropped to 16F, radicalis had zero damage.

[Collectorpalms]

One of my Cham Radicalis that survived 4F and flowered previously is damaged from ice gale force winds and 21F, one limb is hanging down boke. The relative recent lack of canopy I suspect is the cause. The Washingtonias, Pines, and Eucalyptus above it died last spring from the cold. I am seeing a lot of damage that I am not use to due to the TX apocalypses.

Even seeing damage on my flushed cycads. It going to be rough going forward for awhile. Tempted to dig some things up and move them this spring.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Swolte]

3 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

One of my Cham Radicalis that survived 4F and flowered previously is damaged from ice gale force winds and 21F, one limb is hanging down boke. The relative recent lack of canopy I suspect is the cause. The Washingtonias, Pines, and Eucalyptus above it died last spring from the cold. I am seeing a lot of damage that I am not use to due to the TX apocalypses.

One of my Radicalis was mushed as well. I am on track for losing more plants this winter than the last.