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Concern with my Mule Palm


xoRudy

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Quick question about my Mule Palm. So far its been growing great here in the desert, other than a few burnt fronds this summer. Its been putting out a new frond for a while now and I walked out this morning to the Palm looking like this. Is it normal that my new frond is too weak to hold itself up that it just falls over. The frond looks healthy and green. Or is there something wrong with the palms development? I've seen a few Mule Palms at home depot with the same "issue". Thank you. 

 

Rudy

Maricopa, AZ

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The fact that it’s planted next to a wall that is reflecting heat onto the palm in an already hot environment, speaks for itself. It likely needs a watering more often. It looks like it’s getting baked. These palms get really big with fat trunks and I’d also be concerned with its closeness to the concrete block wall. It looks too close. 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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@xoRudy alas, I must concur with @Jim in Los Altos and @Steve the palmreader.

I have two of those, they get to be monsters when they're happy. Next spring, when warm but not hot, dig and move at least another foot from the wall. They're fat, tough and gorgeous. But they need room.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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4 hours ago, xoRudy said:

@DoomsDave @Jim in Los Altos @Steve the palmreader How big of a diameter are we talking about. I can assure you that there is plenty of room. Also, any advice about the question at hand, the new leaf coming in, normal or not?

They need space not just for their trunks but for their leaves as well. 

 

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Edited by Jim in Los Altos
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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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7 hours ago, xoRudy said:

@DoomsDave @Jim in Los Altos @Steve the palmreader How big of a diameter are we talking about. I can assure you that there is plenty of room. Also, any advice about the question at hand, the new leaf coming in, normal or not?

They can be 18 - 24 inches across, with a leaf spread of 10 - 15 feet. I really really think your plant is too close to that wall. It's going to be a huge bother someday if that wall needs work, for people to get in there.

They're bigger than the parents; they can make great shade trees, even a reasonable substitute for a Canary Island Date or Jubaea.

I've had palms do the "weak leaf syndrome" and they usually recover. I think your plant will be fine.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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as stated its getting fried by that concrete block wall.  Arizona is very hot and dry, I often used some shade netting till the roots establish on some nondesert palm seedlings.  It is also too close to the wall for a good root system to develop.  I'd put it about 5' from that wall, and put shade netting over it till the roots are established(probably through next summer).  Remember a west facing wall in direct sun is the hottest spot in any arizona yard.

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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My experience is limited, I have 3 of these palms, all under 5g size when planted, but I can offer you hope. 

I was keeping two potted to grow to a different size until I’m ready to tear out the front lawn. This is a marginal palm for me, so I wanted to observe the one doing really well over the winter. 


Alas, I had a palm showing these symptoms, a potted palm in the patio. I moved it to it’s permanent home and planted. 

I agree, keep it really well watered when this hot. When you have given it adequate water for the day, water it again. Seems to be working for me. 

Here’s some photos of the affected palm, also smaller than yours. My center spear is resuming verticals growth, but is still “pale”. 

 

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I’d image if you can get that palm through this summer it will handle anything!  :greenthumb:

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Same thing happened to me on a beccariophoenix. Had a small microburst that also snapped off 10 feet of plumeria growth at the same time. It happens...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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Also,mules don't grow quite as fat in the Arizona desert as they do in a more temperate area. Just stopped by Treeland to check theirs out - one of the first mules planted in the Phoenix area. Base is right around 2 ft maximum.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

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Edited by aztropic
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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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2 hours ago, aztropic said:

Also,mules don't grow quite as fat in the Arizona desert as they do in a more temperate area. Just stopped by Treeland to check theirs out - one of the first mules planted in the Phoenix area. Base is right around 2 ft maximum.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

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I’ve seen this palm at tree land a couple months ago, this is one of the reasons I bought a mule palm a couple weeks later. I’m really not worried about the place where I’ve planted it. It’s in a area where from the wall to my pavers is 5ft. I planted it directly in the middle. So it has two feet in all directions to grow. The large fronds don’t bother me either, I want the jungle look and I can also trim it how I want. Tree land has a nice Cuban there too!

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Their cuban is as torched as everyone elses with the record breaking heat we've had this summer... Currently 47 days of 110+F high temps. An average year is only 19 days.

Most palm growers only have to be concerned with a winter freeze or possible hurricane editing their gardens. We seem to consistently get hit twice a year with a winter freeze AND a summer burn...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

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Edited by aztropic
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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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7 hours ago, aztropic said:

Their cuban is as torched as everyone elses with the record breaking heat we've had this summer... Currently 47 days of 110+F high temps. An average year is only 19 days.

Most palm growers only have to be concerned with a winter freeze or possible hurricane editing their gardens. We seem to consistently get hit twice a year with a winter freeze AND a summer burn...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

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Our poor palms this summer!!! I'm glad to see treeland nurseries palms are hanging in there.

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To me it looks like Rudy's and Ry's palms were both shadehouse grown.  The original leaves were really  stretched out, and the new ones are dramatically shorter.  They are so much shorter that they are trying to open up inside the "trunk."  I had a shade-grown Bottle do that, the original fronds were probably 6-7 feet long and the subsequent full-sun ones were about 4 feet.  After 3 or 4 fronds the trunk corrected itself and they started opening normally again.  They were still ~4 feet long, just not scrunched up inside the trunk at the base.

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2 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

To me it looks like Rudy's and Ry's palms were both shadehouse grown.  The original leaves were really  stretched out, and the new ones are dramatically shorter.  They are so much shorter that they are trying to open up inside the "trunk."  I had a shade-grown Bottle do that, the original fronds were probably 6-7 feet long and the subsequent full-sun ones were about 4 feet.  After 3 or 4 fronds the trunk corrected itself and they started opening normally again.  They were still ~4 feet long, just not scrunched up inside the trunk at the base.

Thats very educational, thank you. Ill do some research on this, very interesting. 

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When Dave's Doom gives advice, it's from carnage experience :violin:

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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17 hours ago, 96720 said:

Just snapped this picture of my royal i always say the only things royals don’t like is cold

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wow 96720 do you live in a desert climate like phoenix? I have a royal in the ground, have it mulched water it two to three times a day with a hose and fertlize. How do you keep yours so green? 

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I live in Phoenix that is just what royals do I have a lot of them and they all look great just hope we don’t have a cold winter 

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2 minutes ago, 96720 said:

I live in Phoenix that is just what royals do I have a lot of them and they all look great just hope we don’t have a cold winter 

Thanks for the info! I live in Mesa and its the first year in the groune for my royal.  The fronds are pretty toasted right now and I have it planted in a eastern exposure. I am hoping mine look that good in the future!

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Royals love organic material in the soil. They are nitrogen loving palms. 

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

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  • 5 months later...
On 8/19/2020 at 5:23 PM, xoRudy said:

Quick question about my Mule Palm. So far its been growing great here in the desert, other than a few burnt fronds this summer. Its been putting out a new frond for a while now and I walked out this morning to the Palm looking like this. Is it normal that my new frond is too weak to hold itself up that it just falls over. The frond looks healthy and green. Or is there something wrong with the palms development? I've seen a few Mule Palms at home depot with the same "issue". Thank you. 

 

Rudy

Maricopa, AZ

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@xoRudy

Curious as to how your mule made out. Have one that is exhibiting similar symptoms, and hoping for some good news from you.

Cheers!

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@Ras how’s it going brother. My mule palm is doing better. The limp light green leaf fully came out and turned a healthy green color. The limp leaf stayed at a limp level. 
Since that leaf came out, it’s pushed a healthy leaf out and it has two new leafs coming out right now but are now dormant due to the weather. 

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4 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

@xoRudy looks much better. You'll be amazed at how quickly it puts on size now that it's happy and established

Thank you, Im very excited for this growing season. This will mark the palms first year in the ground and their second summer. So I'm expecting some good growth

 

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On 2/12/2021 at 7:34 AM, xoRudy said:

@Ras how’s it going brother. My mule palm is doing better. The limp light green leaf fully came out and turned a healthy green color. The limp leaf stayed at a limp level. 
Since that leaf came out, it’s pushed a healthy leaf out and it has two new leafs coming out right now but are now dormant due to the weather. 

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Glad to see her bouncing back!

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  • 2 months later...

Mark my words, that Mule will be taller than that wall by the end of the summer.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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