Anyone have experience with Elaeis guineensis?

[PhilippineExpat]

A few months ago at a mall my wife and I found an oil palm seedling growing several feet off the ground in the trunk of an adult oil palm. We decided to snag it and take it home. It was in just a plastic bag for a few hours before we were able to transfer it to a pot. Much to our surprise, it survived! it took a long time, but it's been putting out a new pair of baby fronds so we decided to plant it in our garden. We decided on a space next to our gate because it's the only spot left after jam packing our garden with other palms. Anyways, I have some questions for those of you who are experienced with them:

- How thick do their trunks get in terms of diameter? The gate opens up towards it and I want to make sure I will be able to open the gate.

- How shade intolerant is it? I read this palm wont grow in the shade. Right now it's growing under a dwarf papaya and I'm hoping it can stay that way for either 2-3 years when we plan to remove the papaya or it outgrows the papaya.

- Is it drought tolerant? I tried to find this out online but the articles are talking more about how drought is bad for its fruit production. I am growing this purely as an ornamental, so I don't care if it doesn't grow fruit. I jsut want to know if it can survive a defined dry season of 6 months once it has its full trunk.

- Is it wind tolerant? We get typhoons here and I read this palm gets pretty tall, so I don't want it falling on our car. 

Thanks!

Edited August 16, 2020 by PhilippineExpat

[palmfriend]

Hi,

I ordered seeds six or seven years ago and got more out of them than expected (eight out of ten).

When I traveled down to Malaysia and Indonesia a few times ten years ago I could get a pretty good image about 

how big they can get - in short words, they get big but not really  tall.

It is a palm planted large-scale for commercial reasons while destroying other plants habitat, so it has

not the best reputation but it is obviously not the palms fault... However, it is a cool palm, pretty tough and

and can definitely take typhoon winds.

Here we go (pictures taken a minute ago):

This fella is now six/seven years old, kept potted until last year. Almost no care was taken, they just survive.

This one is at the same age, planted out six year ago...

The trunk gets thick but not monstrous.

 

For scale.

...

It throws out constantly two or three spears and it looks pretty cool - definitely a recommendation if you can 

house it.

Best regards from the often typhoon-hit Okinawa -

Lars

 

[PhilippineExpat]

11 minutes ago, palmfriend said:

Hi,

I ordered seeds six or seven years ago and got more out of them than expected (eight out of ten).

When I traveled down to Malaysia and Indonesia a few times ten years ago I could get a pretty good image about 

how big they can get - in short words, they get big but not really  tall.

It is a palm planted large-scale for commercial reasons while destroying other plants habitat, so it has

not the best reputation but it is obviously not the palms fault... However, it is a cool palm, pretty tough and

and can definitely take typhoon winds.

 

...

It throws out constantly two or three spears and it looks pretty cool - definitely a recommendation if you can 

house it.

Best regards from the often typhoon-hit Okinawa -

Lars

 

Wow thanks for the pics! Yours look great! It seems like there is variability in how yours have grown. I agree they are very cool looking palms and I am super happy ours survived. It reminds me of a date palm with the trunk but the fronds have a more tropical jungle vibe while the date palm has more of an oasis vibe. Your trunk looks nice and thick; I think if ours grows like that then it should be fine. I was worried it would be like royal palm thick which would've been an issue. I'm glad to hear yours do well with typhoons. I've been seeing Ryukyu mentioned a lot lately in the typhoon tracking news and it seems like y'all are getting hit quite a bit. I guess this is your peak time? Most of the direct hits in my neck of the woods is October-December. 

 

Edit: I forgot to say, those thorns are insane! It's like a saw lol. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by PhilippineExpat

[greysrigging]

2 hours ago, PhilippineExpat said:

A few months ago at a mall my wife and I found an oil palm seedling growing several feet off the ground in the trunk of an adult oil palm. We decided to snag it and take it home. It was in just a plastic bag for a few hours before we were able to transfer it to a pot. Much to our surprise, it survived! it took a long time, but it's been putting out a new pair of baby fronds so we decided to plant it in our garden. We decided on a space next to our gate because it's the only spot left after jam packing our garden with other palms. Anyways, I have some questions for those of you who are experienced with them:

- How thick do their trunks get in terms of diameter? The gate opens up towards it and I want to make sure I will be able to open the gate.

- How shade intolerant is it? I read this palm wont grow in the shade. Right now it's growing under a dwarf papaya and I'm hoping it can stay that way for either 2-3 years when we plan to remove the papaya or it outgrows the papaya.

- Is it drought tolerant? I tried to find this out online but the articles are talking more about how drought is bad for its fruit production. I am growing this purely as an ornamental, so I don't care if it doesn't grow fruit. I jsut want to know if it can survive a defined dry season of 6 months once it has its full trunk.

- Is it wind tolerant? We get typhoons here and I read this palm gets pretty tall, so I don't want it falling on our car. 

Thanks!

Drought tolerant in the NT of Australia.... these ones are the remnants of an old experimental plantation on Darwin Prison land. Planted over 30 years ago. No water whatsoever for about 5 months of the year.

[PhilippineExpat]

7 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

Drought tolerant in the NT of Australia.... these ones are the remnants of an old experimental plantation on Darwin Prison land. Planted over 30 years ago. No water whatsoever for about 5 months of the year.
 

Nice that's a real relief they can last so long without water! Our dry season can get pretty dry, but I think only 4/6 months are bone dry and the other 2 have a little rain at least. 

[Merlyn]

I have a small seedling that I got from an eBay seller in South FL, it did pretty well in a pot for ~1 year before I picked a spot for it.  I have read that they take severe damage below about 28F, and may defoliate in the upper 20s.  So in my area it's a questionable palm.  I put it in the ground in late April and the existing leaves sunburned pretty quickly, turning yellow and then recovering to a medium green.  It's put out two new fronds in the past ~3 months and is working on a third now.  For reference, this one is about 30" diameter right now.

[PalmatierMeg]

They get quite large. My largest is by the house. Below is a juvenile oil on our garden lot with my husband and cat to give scale. They have a primitive Jurassic Park vibe.

 

[PhilippineExpat]

3 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

They get quite large. My largest is by the house. Below is a juvenile oil on our garden lot with my husband and cat to give scale. They have a primitive Jurassic Park vibe.

 

Woah that thing is a monster! Such a cool palm and I can't wait for ours to grow  I think the adult oil palm we got our seedling from was half that diameter, but I know there is zero chance it is cared for properly. It looks like you guys take great care of yours! Maybe I should neglect mine a bit to keep its size under control.

[tropicbreeze]

These can get very tall. I have two that are up to about 25 metres and one about 4 metres (and not counting the seedlings that keep popping up). Some seeds get caught in the bases of old fronds, germinate, and grow for a few years sometimes.

It's hard to get a good photo of them as they're amongst other tall plants.

A seedling growing on the trunk.

[palmfriend]

3 hours ago, tropicbreeze said:

These can get very tall. I have two that are up to about 25 metres and one about 4 metres (and not counting the seedlings that keep popping up). Some seeds get caught in the bases of old fronds, germinate, and grow for a few years sometimes.

It's hard to get a good photo of them as they're amongst other tall plants.

A seedling growing on the trunk.

Wow, thank you very much for these images! I have never seen such tall ones down in Southeast-Asia and I have been there quite a few times.

Let's see how they are going to perform over here in Okinawa - I am definitely looking forward to it!

best regards

Lars

 

[PhilippineExpat]

15 hours ago, tropicbreeze said:

These can get very tall. I have two that are up to about 25 metres and one about 4 metres (and not counting the seedlings that keep popping up). Some seeds get caught in the bases of old fronds, germinate, and grow for a few years sometimes.

It's hard to get a good photo of them as they're amongst other tall plants.

 

Wow those are tall! They're like coconuts! Do you know how old they are? That's so amazing some seedlings can last a few years growing in the trunks! I guess those seeds have a lot of nutrients and energy. I'm a big believer now in their hardiness, especially after seeing all that ours went through. I wish we did a better job keeping it watered because it probably would've recovered faster. Still, it makes a lot of other plants look like wimps in terms of transplant shock (like my saribus rotundifolius). 

[hbernstein]

In South Florida, at least, they can be a bit weedy, with seedlings popping up unexpectedly quite far (at least hundreds of feet) from the mother tree. I would say plant cautiously or remove fruits before they ripen!

[Really full garden]

These do surprisingly well at the beach. Mine is 18 years old and has 22 feet of trunk. Vultures and bats love the seeds and they do pop up all over my garden. They provide excellent spots for mounting orchids, bromeliads etc.

I do not think it is a suitable palm for a typical suburban garden.

[tropicbreeze]

On 8/17/2020 at 10:20 PM, palmfriend said:

Wow, thank you very much for these images! I have never seen such tall ones down in Southeast-Asia and I have been there quite a few times.

Let's see how they are going to perform over here in Okinawa - I am definitely looking forward to it!

best regards

Lars

Oil Palms, like a lot of other plants, slow in production when they get old and big. For that reason they replant to keep productivity high, and also to make harvesting easier. I saw a lot of Oil Palm plantations in Papua New Guinea and all their trees looked a lot shorter than mine. Easier to prune the dead fronds.

 

19 hours ago, PhilippineExpat said:

Wow those are tall! They're like coconuts! Do you know how old they are? That's so amazing some seedlings can last a few years growing in the trunks! I guess those seeds have a lot of nutrients and energy. I'm a big believer now in their hardiness, especially after seeing all that ours went through. I wish we did a better job keeping it watered because it probably would've recovered faster. Still, it makes a lot of other plants look like wimps in terms of transplant shock (like my saribus rotundifolius). 

Had the place for 16 - 17 years and they were probably 10 - 15 years old then. They're in very poor soil and don't get the amount of water they'd like. I think they prefer over 2000mm annual rain spread throughout most of the year. It's the animals that collect the fruit from mine.

[Really full garden]

Wrong post

Edited August 19, 2020 by Really full garden

[greysrigging]

Here's some suburban Darwin ones......

 

[PhilippineExpat]

34 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

Here's some suburban Darwin ones......

 

Wow those are beautiful! I like how rough and weathered they look because it adds to their ancient Jurassic vibe. 

[greysrigging]

4 hours ago, PhilippineExpat said:

Wow those are beautiful! I like how rough and weathered they look because it adds to their ancient Jurassic vibe. 

Not that common in cultivation in Darwin, but if you look for them you do see 'em.... I have one in my front yard about half this size, its healthy enough but I have never really looked after it.

 

[tropicbreeze]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:38 PM, greysrigging said:

Not that common in cultivation in Darwin, but if you look for them you do see 'em.... I have one in my front yard about half this size, its healthy enough but I have never really looked after it.

 

Over the years I've only managed to give one seedling away. One look at the parents and people say "No thanks!"

[greysrigging]

2 hours ago, tropicbreeze said:

Over the years I've only managed to give one seedling away. One look at the parents and people say "No thanks!"

Yep.... can't imagine them very high up on the 'I must have' list of available species..... not the least reason being the wicked ( painful ) spikes !
Many local ones seem to have parasitic strangler Figs, or Banyans of some description growing on the trunks ?

[Merlyn]

On 8/16/2020 at 1:30 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

They get quite large. My largest is by the house. Below is a juvenile oil on our garden lot with my husband and cat to give scale. They have a primitive Jurassic Park vibe.

I planted my small one about 5-6 feet to the right side of the path below.  Do you recall if these grow "up then out" like a Queen, or if they grow "out then up" like a CIDP?  If they get a lot bigger than 10-12' diameter before starting to grow upwards then I may have a problem...    The Arenga Pinnata is about 10' up the path from it, and I know that one grows straight up like a "fountain of fronds" when they are young.  Any thoughts on path clearance?

[PalmatierMeg]

1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I planted my small one about 5-6 feet to the right side of the path below.  Do you recall if these grow "up then out" like a Queen, or if they grow "out then up" like a CIDP?  If they get a lot bigger than 10-12' diameter before starting to grow upwards then I may have a problem...    The Arenga Pinnata is about 10' up the path from it, and I know that one grows straight up like a "fountain of fronds" when they are young.  Any thoughts on path clearance?

It looks quite close to that path. The leaves initially tend to reach for the sky but as the palm grows, older leaves will sag outward. When that happens we cut them off even while green so we don't get slapped in the face. The mature palm near the house is sandwiched between a Livistona decora and an Attalea butyracea so we had to cut leaves off of all 3 when they interfered with one another. So far, so good. All are going upward.

[Merlyn]

5 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

It looks quite close to that path. The leaves initially tend to reach for the sky but as the palm grows, older leaves will sag outward. When that happens we cut them off even while green so we don't get slapped in the face. The mature palm near the house is sandwiched between a Livistona decora and an Attalea butyracea so we had to cut leaves off of all 3 when they interfered with one another. So far, so good. All are going upward.

Ok thanks for the info!  That sounds sort of like what I was hoping.  As long as it doesn't spread right out to 10+ feet in diameter then it should be manageable.  I don't mind brushing past fronds as long as they aren't stabby!

I have to cut back the Asian Lemon bamboo (Bambusa eutuldoides viridi-vittata) on the left, and the Dypsis Lutescens just past the Arenga on the right.  Also on the left there is a 12' tall Caryota Mitis cluster and a Dypsis Pembana cluster that have so far been pretty well-behaved, and a 12+ foot tall B. Alfredii that is sorta okay.  The Butia down near the "T" in the path is somewhat annoying at it's current height, but should be tall enough next year to not be a big issue.  Here's the other two ends of the path, posted just 'cause I'm happy with how they look! 

 

[Moose]

With 25ft of trunk, spines in the base of the leaflets and looking tattered, I wish I hadn't planted mine now. Enjoyed it the first 10 years. Now I got to pay someone to remove it.

[SouthFLA]

A beautiful large palm but I regret ever planting it. Very fast growth rate in South Florida. It has viscous spines and retains its massive fronds so pruning is a constant problem. The messy fruit is prolific and it attracts every squirrel, rat and parrot for miles. If you are a masochist who enjoys wildlife and mess then this is your palm. I'm constantly plucking seedlings all over my yard. I would categorize this palm as invasive because every seed has a very high chance of germination. Mine was put in the ground in 2013 at 2 ft overall. In the photos I placed a 5gal bucket at the base for scale - you can see it's a monster now. I keep the trunk diamond cut but it's a chore, this is not the natural growth habit.