Paid $6,000 for Rhapis humilis, did I get bamboozled?

[rhapishumilis]

In Dec 2018 I purchased 2 Rhapis humilis from a well-known seller in the San Diego area. They were almost $6,000 and that was after heavy negotiation. They did not have them in-house but were getting them from some nearby grower whose name they did not disclose.

Much to my surprise, late last summer the larger one produced seeds! Although you can't see them in the pics now taken 10 months later, you can see the empty pieces the seeds were on. Now this goes against everything I understand about Rhapis humilis seeds not existing, since they can only be reproduced by separating the canes.

I emailed the owner of the nursery last month and he said "My suspicion is that they were male flowers that fell."

I'm not sure what he means because they were distinct round brown balls - maybe 1/8 to 1/4" in diameter - hundreds of them which fell from these branches you see in the pics.

The trees have thinned out incredibly (meaning, hundreds and hundreds of fronds have died) since owning. This is especially apparent on the smaller tree. However when I received them, they both had comparable fullness, just different heights.

Did I get humilis or are these excelsa?

[joe_OC]

Here is a good description of R humilis (comments & curiosities):

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Rhapis_humilis

[rhapishumilis]

Thanks @joe_OC yes that is a good informative page, I do not believe I've came across that one before. What is your opinion based on my photos?

[joe_OC]

Need to see more pics of fronds.  From what I can see, the fronds don’t have a lot of blades which would suggest R excelsa.

[tim_brissy_13]

Looks like R excelsa. 

[tropical1]

Agree, I have both and that looks like excelsa to me

[Ben in Norcal]

Whoa.  That's quite the price tag for R excelsa.  I hope you can get your money back!

[Jimbean]

2 hours ago, rhapishumilis said:

In Dec 2018 I purchased 2 Rhapis humilis from a well-known seller in the San Diego area. They were almost $6,000 and that was after heavy negotiation. They did not have them in-house but were getting them from some nearby grower whose name they did not disclose.

Much to my surprise, late last summer the larger one produced seeds! Although you can't see them in the pics now taken 10 months later, you can see the empty pieces the seeds were on. Now this goes against everything I understand about Rhapis humilis seeds not existing, since they can only be reproduced by separating the canes.

I emailed the owner of the nursery last month and he said "My suspicion is that they were male flowers that fell."

I'm not sure what he means because they were distinct round brown balls - maybe 1/8 to 1/4" in diameter - hundreds of them which fell from these branches you see in the pics.

The trees have thinned out incredibly (meaning, hundreds and hundreds of fronds have died) since owning. This is especially apparent on the smaller tree. However when I received them, they both had comparable fullness, just different heights.

Did I get humilis or are these excelsa?

I hate to break the bad news buddy but you totally got bamboozled out of 6K.  I would talk to who sold you those palms and get your money back since those are excelsa and not humilis.

[joe_OC]

Here are pics of my Rhapis:

excelsa:

humilis:

multifida:

[Darold Petty]

Note Joe's photos.  R. excelsa has praemorse leaflet ends ( jagged ends, as if bitten off)

 and R. humilis has acuminate leaflet ends (comining to a smooth point) 

[Breadfruit Bill]

16 hours ago, rhapishumilis said:

In Dec 2018 I purchased 2 Rhapis humilis from a well-known seller in the San Diego area. They were almost $6,000 and that was after heavy negotiation. They did not have them in-house

This is awful.  I’m appalled.  I understand your desire to not embarrass or slander if in fact you did receive what you bargained for...   but I hope you realize now that you were ripped off (I’m not afraid to say it, a spade is a spade).  This is a small community, I personally would appreciate if you would share who you purchased these palms from, to both protect future buyers and to give the seller an opportunity to speak up and make right a wrong...  

[Dusty CBAD]

Why is Rhapis Humilis such an expensive palm? I just haven’t heard of any palm costing even remotely close to this. I’m very new to this and genuinely curious.

[Meangreen94z]

There are plenty of places that sell specimen level plants for 1000% or more of wholesale value. They market it as a package deal that includes installation and usually target new home owners who are short on time, with little knowledge on plants and their value. The above Nursery probably targeted wealthy home owners who want a specific look to their landscaping and  are willing to pay for it. Aside from apparently not being knowledgeable and mislabeling a plant there’s nothing unethical about it. It’s no different than the people who buy high end clothing, purses, shoes etc. at a substantial increase over actual value of the materials.
      

[Kim]

This really puzzles me. It is upsetting to think a "well known grower" would knowingly sell a buyer the wrong palm at such an inflated price. Heck, even if they were R. humilis, it's an inflated price, in my opinion -- though prices for palms vary around the world, and I'm used to Hawaii prices, which are relatively low.  (I have a small R. humilis for which I  paid less than $20, typical of my spending habits.) 

But you said the seller was obtaining the palms from another source -- did you actually see the palms before your purchase? And how did you determine what you were buying? I mean, the difference in appearance is striking enough for even a neophyte palm enthusiast to recognize. Did you research the palm before encountering the seller, or did the seller steer you toward this palm?

"Buyer beware" is an operative concept, but not an excuse for a seller to mislead a customer. 

I wouldn't spend that much on a palm unless it was viable seed of a double coconut, Lodoicea maldivica! Make that 2 seeds!

[rhapishumilis]

Thank you everyone for your comments of confirming they are excelsa. Here are some additional photos I took this morning. The first 2 are of the smaller plant (on the right side) and next 2 are of the larger plant (on the left side of terrarium).

If the smaller plant looks sick you, that's because it is. When I got it, I was perplexed to find the leaves carefully trimmed in many areas. Only after a while did I discover why that is - they are chronically going brown and dying. I spend many, many hours myself cutting the ends about every 60 days so it looks presentable.

For the comment about price markups etc. and how they correlate with service of planting and so forth. This purchase did not involve any service. I did pay for delivery, which was curbside. I actually had to hire people separately, unexpectedly. Myself and partner were able to bring them down 2 flights of stairs, but we were unable to lift them up the 2 ft needed to go into that terrarium. We used an app to hire people later in the evening and long story short, it was a choatic day from the time the plants were dropped off at sunrise, to when we got them in position. I reiterate, this was curbside delivery.

For the comment about steering towards humilis - the seller did not steer me towards any specific species. I contacted the seller after finding them as an authority for Rhapis humilis on Google. I inquired as to their current inventory of them and they replied with these 2 they had available. They did provide pics from a distance and of course I trusted they were what they said they were. You can see the space requirements and aesthetics of this terrarium, I specifically sought humilis because I desired their mature height (higher than excelsa) and less full look.

Before I post the name of the nursery, I am going to await a response from him within the next day or two. I emailed him over 4 weeks ago about the seeds and he never responded. It was until I emailed him again a few days ago asking why he didn't respond, that he replied saying they were probably male flowers (which didn't make sense to me, since they were distinct balls that fell off).

Edited August 6, 2020 by rhapishumilis

[joe_OC]

Michael,

Hopefully, you will be able to resolve the issue with the seller.  If you do end up keeping the excelsa, we can definitely help get them healthier.  

 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

2 hours ago, Dusty CBAD said:

Why is Rhapis Humilis such an expensive palm? I just haven’t heard of any palm costing even remotely close to this. I’m very new to this and genuinely curious.

Was curious regarding $ of these myself and checked around a few nurseries in /around San Diego... Won't name where i looked but the most i could find for say boxed R. humilis specimens was about $900.00 and i'd trust that nursery's identification.  Another place had 24" boxed specimens listed for about $350.00 which, in their case, could be wholesale pricing but having delt w/them myself in the past for other stuff, their retail prices wouldn't even come close to the $900.00 price of the 1st nursery..  

If i were selling them, even at the higher-end price, my client would have had all the bells and whistles as far as getting them to the site, planted, and i'd check in every so often to see how they're doing,  for at least a year, if not 2 ...and still not have spent anywhere close to $6K. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[rhapishumilis]

Thanks @joe_OC that would be appreciated. 

A  correction - I went back and added up the receipts for these and total price was closer to $5,000 (not $6,000 per title). However with the hired third-party help I had to use to get these down 2 flights of stairs and into that terrarium, there was a few hundred on top of that.

At that time, Moon Valley had quoted me $2,200 for 2 excelsas which were actually bigger, with white glove delivery and planting in my terrarium included. I had provided them over a dozen photos of pathway to basement and terrarium, and that was included in their price. 

This is especially frustrating as I grew up with nothing and earned every dollar I have. About 4 weeks after getting these, I was diagnosed with a terminal disease and 10% of my bone marrow remaining. That got down to 5% in 2019. So as you can understand, I am addressing this late for a reason. 

Thank you everyone for the input, I value all of it and greatly appreciate and respect your knowledge!!

[ahosey01]

11 minutes ago, rhapishumilis said:

Thanks @joe_OC that would be appreciated. 

A  correction - I went back and added up the receipts for these and total price was closer to $5,000 (not $6,000 per title). However with the hired third-party help I had to use to get these down 2 flights of stairs and into that terrarium, there was a few hundred on top of that.

At that time, Moon Valley had quoted me $2,200 for 2 excelsas which were actually bigger, with white glove delivery and planting in my terrarium included. I had provided them over a dozen photos of pathway to basement and terrarium, and that was included in their price. 

This is especially frustrating as I grew up with nothing and earned every dollar I have. About 4 weeks after getting these, I was diagnosed with a terminal disease and 10% of my bone marrow remaining. That got down to 5% in 2019. So as you can understand, I am addressing this late for a reason. 

Thank you everyone for the input, I value all of it and greatly appreciate and respect your knowledge!!

Moon Valley is basically the worst at anything related to plants.  I have no idea how they're in business.  They're all over here in Arizona.

[Darold Petty]

Moon Valley seems to be expanding, as well.  I knew of the location on I-15 in San Diego county, but recently they opened in Gilroy, CA. 

[doubravsky]

Yeah I used to enjoy Tropic World nursery and would stop by whenever I was out that way. Went once after Moon Valley took over.... won’t be back. 

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Moon Valley seems to be expanding, as well.  I knew of the location on I-15 in San Diego county, but recently they opened in Gilroy, CA. 

  Spreading Like Plague..  Warn anyone ( and everyone ) you know...

[LJG]

3 hours ago, rhapishumilis said:

Thanks @joe_OC that would be appreciated. 

A  correction - I went back and added up the receipts for these and total price was closer to $5,000 (not $6,000 per title). However with the hired third-party help I had to use to get these down 2 flights of stairs and into that terrarium, there was a few hundred on top of that.

At that time, Moon Valley had quoted me $2,200 for 2 excelsas which were actually bigger, with white glove delivery and planting in my terrarium included. I had provided them over a dozen photos of pathway to basement and terrarium, and that was included in their price. 

This is especially frustrating as I grew up with nothing and earned every dollar I have. About 4 weeks after getting these, I was diagnosed with a terminal disease and 10% of my bone marrow remaining. That got down to 5% in 2019. So as you can understand, I am addressing this late for a reason. 

Thank you everyone for the input, I value all of it and greatly appreciate and respect your knowledge!!

Freaking terrible. So it was Moon Nursery that sold these? 

[daxin]

Just yesterday a friend was recommending the new Moon Valley branch in Gilroy.  Guess I will be keep my eyes open when I go visit them.

[rhapishumilis]

It was not Moon Valley that sold me these.

To clarify, I was comparing the costs of 2 Rhapis excelsa with in-house delivery and planting from Moon Valley, as that is the price they quoted me at that same time. Meaning, if I wanted to buy excelsa, I could have gotten 2 which were slightly bigger and with in-house delivery and planting for around 60% less than what I paid for my humilis. I also had looked at excelsa option from Armstrong, as well as independent sellers in Los Angeles. If I wanted to do these as excelsa I was looking at anywhere from $1,300 to $2,200.

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, daxin said:

Just yesterday a friend was recommending the new Moon Valley branch in Gilroy.  Guess I will be keep my eyes open when I go visit them.

They’re not 100% terrible.  They are like 90% terrible, though.

[Meangreen94z]

You can actually talk Moon Valley down on price and also remove the installation charge portion of the price if you’re able to take the plant yourself(but no warranty). I looked into a western region tree that basically only they could get locally. The guy came down quite a bit, over 50% off sticker, told him I would come back but never did.  

[ahosey01]

3 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

You can actually talk Moon Valley down on price and also remove the installation charge portion of the price if you’re able to take the plant yourself(but no warranty). I looked into a western region tree that basically only they could get locally. The guy came down quite a bit, over 50% off sticker, told him I would come back but never did.  

This is valid. I did this with a Eucalyptus globulus... 15 foot tree listed for like $699, talked em down to $300 OTD. One of two times I’ve ever purchased there.