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Which Queen has survived the coldest temps?


Dimovi

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What is the coldest temperate a Queen has survived without protection and does anyone have seeds from it?

A large community of users can come up with great varieties with selective breeding when sharing seeds from plants with interesting traits.

I like to always plant a lot palms and look for interesting traits.

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Mine have seen -5.5C / 22.1F on more than one occasion and are fine and healthy. They are not quite seeding yet though, and not sure if they will in my cooler climate.

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I'm surprised @Estlander and @JLM haven't chimed in just yet.  Surely there are a few up in the Florida panhandle that have at least had a brush with death in the high teens and lived to tell the tale.

In the mean time, there are some observations into the teens and low 20s here:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3191-syagrus-romanzoffiana/

A few are from TX and still frequent the site.  Might not hurt to reach out.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Mine havent been in the ground for a year yet. But they did have some brutal 26F north winds. They are fully exposed to north winds with no canopy in sight. They had fairly thin sheet over them with C9 lights. I have never gotten the nerve to try and test how cold they can get without protection though. My largest did slowly push out a spear through winter, the spear had no damage from the cold nor did the rest of the tree. Usually the top was left exposed. Mine was put through a cold 9a winter right after planting, they are tough but how tough is what i need to experiment. I may do some trial runs this winter and push the limits on cold they can get this winter. I can tell you that @Estlander has had many more experiences with the winter conditions than i have.

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Palms - 3 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 2 BxS, 1 C. nucifera, 1 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa

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1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

I'm surprised @Estlander and @JLM haven't chimed in just yet.  Surely there are a few up in the Florida panhandle that have at least had a brush with death in the high teens and lived to tell the tale.

In the mean time, there are some observations into the teens and low 20s here:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/3191-syagrus-romanzoffiana/

A few are from TX and still frequent the site.  Might not hurt to reach out.

Recently a couple of mature Syagrus in my San Antonio neighborhood planted near the east side of the house sailed through 20 degrees on consecutive nights in January 2018 with no visible damage.  My Syagrus was still a 5-foot juvenile and only in the ground 3 months so I wrapped it in lights and a sheet.  No visible damage to mine either.  When I lived in Spring, Texas (north of Houston) in 2013 there were Syagrus near me that survived 18 (humid) degrees in 2010, but I don't know if or how much damage they took.  By 2013 you couldn't tell if they had been damaged or not.  These were on the south side of a building.

Edited by Fusca
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Jon Sunder

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Michael at Mule Palms of Mississippi reported his Queen coming through 15 degrees in the winter of 2018. (The temperature dropped to 17 degrees that week near me in Mobile.) That tree is, of course, his pollen donor for the mules.

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My old neighbors queens survived 18-19*F and ice (January 2018) in his backyard, which saw morning sun. His front yard queens died due to no sunlight until about 10-11am. They were all about 15 feet tall.

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12 hours ago, Manalto said:

Michael at Mule Palms of Mississippi reported his Queen coming through 15 degrees in the winter of 2018. (The temperature dropped to 17 degrees that week near me in Mobile.) That tree is, of course, his pollen donor for the mules.

The 15 degrees is something along the mythical temperatures I have read about. I've heard also that silver Queens can go to 10, but I know people here have disputed that. How can I reach Michael, is he a user here?

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4 hours ago, Laaz said:

I have three that came through the 2018 freeze of 16F. All had spear pull but came back strong.

Nice. Are they old enough to flower? Do you happen to have any seeds?

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30 minutes ago, Dimovi said:

The 15 degrees is something along the mythical temperatures I have read about. I've heard also that silver Queens can go to 10, but I know people here have disputed that. How can I reach Michael, is he a user here?

Also what I have found in my limited years of growing palms is variance within a breed. I have seen the same breed in a patch have some pull and others not despite having the same batch, soil, age and care. Honestly for zone pushing you just have to hope and pray you get the good genetics in what you're planting.

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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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11 hours ago, Dimovi said:

The 15 degrees is something along the mythical temperatures I have read about. I've heard also that silver Queens can go to 10, but I know people here have disputed that. How can I reach Michael, is he a user here?

@Dimovi, I have never read anywhere were silver queens ('litoralis') can take 10F. Where did you hear this?

You can contact Michael directly on his website. MulePalmsofMississippi.

I have 3 of his silver queen offspring that I received a few months ago, and will trial them in 8a for a time for fun. 

1 is potted in full sun and drip irrigation 

1 is potted in part sun, no drip, in zone 7b (gift).

1 is planted in the ground in full sun here and irrigated. 

 

Time will tell.

Edited by Dartolution
typo
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On 6/17/2020 at 12:22 PM, sipalms said:

Mine have seen -5.5C / 22.1F on more than one occasion and are fine and healthy. They are not quite seeding yet though, and not sure if they will in my cooler climate.

Hey Si - I am still waiting for Photos of your Queens???

I remember when you planted them and have not seen them since.

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Established Queens can take -5°c ( 23°f ) in Christchurch New Zealand.

Edited by Albey
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Many large, generic queens in Houston survived low 20s if not 18-19 and a day that scarcely rose above freezing (high temp 34-36). Smaller, trunk-less specimens nearly all died. Some large ones died as well. If you looked carefully you could probably find some exceptional specimens with seedlings underneath them like the one's Fusca mentioned. The seedlings transplant well in my experience. From my observation, skinnier queens fared worse than the thick ones.

I have some Santa Catarina seedlings that I recently sprouted. If the claims are true, these may have an edge over the rest. They are a stouter variety of queens. We'll see!

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On 6/17/2020 at 9:24 PM, Dartolution said:

@Dimovi, I have never read anywhere were silver queens ('litoralis') can take 10F. Where did you hear this?

You can contact Michael directly on his website. MulePalmsofMississippi.

I have 3 of his silver queen offspring that I received a few months ago, and will trial them in 8a for a time for fun. 

1 is potted in full sun and drip irrigation 

1 is potted in part sun, no drip, in zone 7b (gift).

1 is planted in the ground in full sun here and irrigated. 

 

Time will tell.

You are right, I don't think it was 10F, it might have been -10C. Also, the thread here was about how the Silver Queens were supposedly not hardier than then regular Queens, but I still want to try them.

Two years ago I got some mystery Queens that I bought online as Pindos. One of them I planted in the ground at 2 years old and it survived 25F without protection, which seems good for a small queen.

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@Dimovi 25F w/o protection is good. I think the consensus is 22F is where they start to fry. 18F usually is death. 

The Silvery Queens are reportedly NOT killed at 18F. 

The 3 I have were from parent queens that survived that bad 80's freeze I think.

 

 

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I have one that survived 1989 in Jax --- very bitter 16F and sveral days after that 

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35 minutes ago, edbrown_III said:

I have one that survived 1989 in Jax --- very bitter 16F and sveral days after that 

Great! Do you have any seeds? Also, do you know what variety it is?

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On 6/18/2020 at 10:42 PM, Albey said:

Hey Si - I am still waiting for Photos of your Queens???

I remember when you planted them and have not seen them since.

Sorry. I will have to upload some pics sometime. I have a lot to sort through but will try do on my desktop computer next week.

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That would be interesting if there was a super hardy (in the terms of queen palms) variety that became common. I’ve seen one at the Salty Dog Cafe on Hilton Head Island, SC and I’ve seen a smaller one in Charleston, SC although I know they can get bigger there. I lost my picture of the Hilton Head Island queen palm thanks to my phone resetting in my pocket one day, but you can see it on Google Maps and on Google Earth street view. It is tall and I bet it flowered (or at least tried to, they might have been pruned off) at one point. It must have seen a cold temperature some time before, but I’m not sure how cold, you can find a good amount of solid zone 9a palms there. 

B8434138-F1FD-4914-B984-E3FBCD20F22A.jpeg

B4AC230A-2B00-4E4B-A10E-1623DA89C5C7.png

Edited by PalmTreeDude
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PalmTreeDude

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@PalmTreeDude Im sure that queen has probably seen some cold, and Im also sure that with that amount of black asphalt around it, and being next to a house it is in a warmer microclimate than others. To me, that trunk diameter doesn't appear to be consistent with santa catarina, or litoralis queens, but that could also just be the picture itself. 

Either way, that queen is definitely protected in a bit of a microclimate bubble there, and thats pretty neat.

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On 6/20/2020 at 11:46 AM, Dartolution said:

@PalmTreeDude Im sure that queen has probably seen some cold, and Im also sure that with that amount of black asphalt around it, and being next to a house it is in a warmer microclimate than others. To me, that trunk diameter doesn't appear to be consistent with santa catarina, or litoralis queens, but that could also just be the picture itself. 

Either way, that queen is definitely protected in a bit of a microclimate bubble there, and thats pretty neat.

Yeah it is in a microclimate. There were a few more in the Sea Pines area that I saw but they were much smaller. 

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PalmTreeDude

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The 2010/2011/2018 "death line" in the Houston Area closely follows the 17 degree mark, anywhere that got below that in any of the 3 freezes doesn't have any queens 10+ years old (with a few exceptions). I live very close to the western boundary (along I-10) for queens, there are no large queens just a few miles west of me. My area saw upper teens in 2010, 2011, 2014, and 2018. 

Most queens in Houston (except closer to the coast) have seen at least 19-20F, as that was the reading in 2018 even in the usual heat island micro-climate of central Houston. 

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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@Albey I'm in a sticky situation. I was under the impression that with Palmtalk forum, pics could be removed at a later date if requested of the original poster, as I am looking at possibly selling my house in the next 18 months and wanted to make sure that I could.  However I contacted Palmtalk admin say they wouldn't facilitate this. 

I'd love to share the pics but just as long as I could have them removed at a later date (only if need be - not saying I would for sure). 

I'm not a privacy obsessed person but not super comfortable about this. I know I have posted one or two pics in the past of my house and garden. Any ideas anyone?

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This queen palm at my old house in Jacksonville, FL (near the Cecil Field cold zone, two houses ago) survived 19 degrees. It wasn’t producing seeds yet, though. The small one behind it died. 

D788E943-81A8-4D9B-92F8-AA3D9B64E1F6.jpeg

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These queen palms at my childhood home in Jacksonville, FL (I own it but don’t live there) have been in the ground since 1997. They’ve survived 17 degrees. I could get you seeds from here. PM me if interested. They were originally purchased at Home Depot in Daytona Beach. (This was before queen palms were common at stores in Jacksonville)

C9672890-78DC-4FA5-9F74-73211ACEF141.jpeg

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On 6/22/2020 at 2:03 PM, sipalms said:

@Albey I'm in a sticky situation. I was under the impression that with Palmtalk forum, pics could be removed at a later date if requested of the original poster, as I am looking at possibly selling my house in the next 18 months and wanted to make sure that I could.  However I contacted Palmtalk admin say they wouldn't facilitate this. 

I'd love to share the pics but just as long as I could have them removed at a later date (only if need be - not saying I would for sure). 

I'm not a privacy obsessed person but not super comfortable about this. I know I have posted one or two pics in the past of my house and garden. Any ideas anyone?

Hi Si - You could just send me a photo to my Private email address - that way its not made public and i can delete it when you sell your house.

Where do you plan on moving?

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