Livistonia in full shade

[happ]

Picked up a handsome 4 ft. L. chinensis that was grown in 90% shade.  The nursery recommended it be transplanted in near-total shade but everything I read is that it can handle full sun and prefers only partial shade.

I have a perfect 90% shady area.  Will chinensis thrive in such conditions in California?

[sonoranfans]

(happ @ Jul. 09 2007,18:54)

QUOTE

Picked up a handsome 4 ft. L. chinensis that was grown in 90% shade.  The nursery recommended it be transplanted in near-total shade but everything I read is that it can handle full sun and prefers only partial shade.

I have a perfect 90% shady area.  Will chinensis thrive in such conditions in California?

I would take the advice of the nurseryman.  Mine is doing great, its in a protected area sunwise, no direct sun after 1PM and overhead filtered shade before that.  It must be doing fine, its working on its 5th new palm this year.  "Full sun" depends on where you are.  I can assure you it will die rapidly here in the full sun.  Nurseries here generally dont sell them because they dont survive the sun so well here.  California is a little different, but still, low humidity in the hot season will be the test.

[bgl]

Happ,

I have a bunch of L. chinensis here, but more importantly, I also planted a number of them when we lived in Poway, which definitely has hot inland sun. I planted a few in full sun and a few were in shade (and as some of the other palms were getting taller, those L. chinensis ended up in 100% shade). All did great. The ones in full sun were very short with almost no visible petiole. The ones in deep shade ended up with petioles that were gradually longer and longer (up to 6-7 ft long!!). An interesting look! If you have a 90% shaded area, it should thrive.

Bo-Göran

[MattyB]

Shade, shade!!!!!  They love shade and look awesome!  Check out the Jungle Ride @ Disneyland.  The petioles on those things are super long and the fans are so huge and round.  I prefer them grown in lots of shade! :cool:

[happ]

Thanks for the feedback.  Supports my inclination to go with the nursery's advice.  Hard to complain when the shade-grown specimen looks great.  I'm finding that shade/over story is a tremendous plus.  Howea forsteriana is the most handsome palm in my garden.  I only worry a bit during intense heat [recorded 99F/37.2c in May with overhead sun for 3-4 hr w/o damage    

BTW for LA palm aficionados the nursery is Tropics on Santa Monica Blvd/W. Hollywood [normally too pricey since most of the stock is huge in size/$.  I picked up 2 vietchia arecina/ 3-5 ft for $50 due to frost damage.  Will add them to another arecina [a great grouping of palms often observed in Miami     The 15 footers are under $900.

[Alberto]

I have them growing in shade an also in full sun. All look great,but the shade grown palms have bigger fans and longer petioles. I like them in shade.

I have two other palms that I also will plant in shade!

[happ]

Here's a photo of the livistonia.  Sweet  

[STEVE IN SO CAL]

Happ...I just planted two L Saribus in DEEP shade, hoping for the stretched petioles with gnarly teeth.

[Kathryn]

Here's one that has been growing in full shade at Audubon Zoo. This picture was taken just a few months after Katrina, so the canopy is quite stripped. Normally there is not much sun in this area. Notice how the petioles are long and it has retained many fronds.

[happ]

Damn    That's an incredible specimen Kathryn.  I'm embarrassed to ask is the zoo in New Orleans?

[fiji jim]

Here they grow well anywhere from shade to full sun near the beach but display different characteristics like Bo described.

[FRITO]

I prefer the look of the chinese fan palm when grown in a shadier location.

~

[DoomsDave]

Happ:

That's a lovely Liv, but I don't think it's Chinensis.  The tips are nowhere near droopy enough, and the leaflets are too fine.

Looks more like one of the more tropical species, in which case you got a real bargain!  Scream, holler!  Run around the block . . . .

How about a close up of the crown base and petioles.  If my memory serves, some of the tropical Livs prefer the shade anyway.

[happ]

(Dave from So-Cal @ Jul. 10 2007,14:08)

QUOTE

Happ:

That's a lovely Liv, but I don't think it's Chinensis.  The tips are nowhere near droopy enough, and the leaflets are too fine.

Looks more like one of the more tropical species, in which case you got a real bargain!  Scream, holler!  Run around the block . . . .

How about a close up of the crown base and petioles.  If my memory serves, some of the tropical Livs prefer the shade anyway.

Your wish is my command especially if it is something like rotundifolia or jenkinsiana[huge leaves  

[bubba]

The Livistonia chinesi in South Florida definitely prefer shade.

[DoomsDave]

Happ:

When I get out of the Dark Tower, I'll peruse my L. Chinensis for comparison and try to post a visible pic for all to compare with . . . .

dave

[steve 9atx]

Don't L. chinensis have spiny petioles at this size?  The ones around here only lose their spines into trunking size.

Steve

[ruskinPalms]

Happ, that is not L. chinensis. They have nasty spines on the petioles and droopy leaflets like others have said. I guess you got lucky and found a rarer variety! As for chinensis, I do prefer them in shade. They work well as foundational plantings under big oaks and under faster growing queen palms for a very lovely, yet very cold hardy, tropical look.

[ruskinPalms]

Just looking at the travel log section and noticed the trip to China thread. Here is a shot of a L. chinensis in habitat. Not so droopy, eh?

[FRITO]

my experience(last 3 yrs) with chinesis have never had droppy leaflets. I belive its a varaiable chracteristic.

Bill, thanks for posting the L. Chinesis in habitat photo. that palm has a small dosage of costapalmate leaves.

~

[Kathryn]

The tips of the fronds appear to have been cut – all Livistona palms I’ve ever seen have pointed tips.

I have grown several hundred from seed to five-gallon size and some have had very minimal spines.

[ruskinPalms]

(Kathryn @ Jul. 10 2007,22:53)

QUOTE

The tips of the fronds appear to have been cut – all Livistona palms I’ve ever seen have pointed tips.

I have grown several hundred from seed to five-gallon size and some have had very minimal spines.

In Happ's pic, they do look cut, but then I couldn't imagine any place cutting the tips of these palms. Why? I would still like to think it is a rare Livistona. I still don't think Happ's is a chinensis because of the lack of those very brutal spines found on my young L. chinensis.

[wendisplantation]

I have a Livistona that was labeled 'chinensis' when I got it. I planted it in full sun and it became a low shrubby looking thing with stunted leaves and petioles. I dug it up last year and it is now in a pot in dappled light, which has allowed the leaves to grow larger and a little more length on the petioles, but not much yet.

This plant has hook like spines on petioles, and pointed leaflet tips, but no drooping. After reading this thread, I am definately going to plant it where I had recently thought  would make a nice spot, but wasn't sure it would get enough sun. I guess my Steve will be digging this weekend, again....LOL

[Kris]

Dear Friends  

can you I.D these 2 fan palms for me !

here are the still of the palm_1

[Kris]

now to the other palm,what palm is this ?

since the first one is growing in full shade,while this one is growing in full sun..

here is a still of that palm_

[happ]

Mystery is over.  I have close-up photos that show every frond has been meticulously trimmed  

[sonoranfans]

I finally got some pics of my palms.  Here is my Livistona chinesis, shaded and shielded.  It sure doesnt look like that magnificent one in louisiana, but I'll take it.  the leaf burn on the tips is from the freeze of '07.  there was alot of new growth on this one this spring, 4-5(?) new palms.  Note how I have it in a cluster of other palms to protect it.  The queens were planted 1 1/2 years ago after the new palms showed sign of dessication, now the new growth is nice.  The house shades to the west, the queens to the east/overhead.

[Kathryn]

Happ,

What about the spines? Are there any at all? Can you get a close-up of the stem?

[DoomsDave]

Happ!

You may have gotten a bargain, that even the [expletives} you bought it from don't realize.

Seriously.

Here's an L.  chin at my dive.

[DoomsDave]

Closeup o' petioles, etc.

[The Germinator]

I have one of Joe Palmas decipiens in full sun, no problem although it probably will not stetch out nice like in the shade. I have another HD special its a tripple and I have been wanting to post a picture to see if it is a Chinese. I think it is, it is also in full sun but it does not like it lots of yellow.

[fiji jim]

We have many of these in different locations and they are quiet variable. With or without spines but ones with spines have only small ones pointing down towards the petiole base.

Some will also have spines on some petioles and not on others on the same palm.

Ones grown in full sun are more compact than those in the shade and once established do not suffer from dryness or full sun.

[happ]

Here are close-ups that reveal spines though weak on some petioles.  Rubbed my hand up the dominate [tallest] petiole & it was smooth/no spines?  ???    

fiji jim

Are you referring to variations of chinesis?

[Wai`anae Steve]

They have gone wild in the hills behind Honolulu and grow outstanding in the deep shade of the rain forest.

[DoomsDave]

Happ;

I don't think you have an L. chin.

dave