Washingtonia ID

[Plantasexoticas]

Hi all, 

I grew this washingtonia from seed few years back. 
I purchased the seeds as filifera but was wondering if I could get your thoughts on it? 
not holding hopes up too high as the supplier has sold me many palm seeds that turned out to be hybrids. 
 

James 

[Plantasexoticas]

 

[aztropic]

ANY red on the petiole boot shows it is not a pure filifera.The more red,the more robusta it has in it.Pic is of my pure filifera...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

 

 

[Plantasexoticas]

50 minutes ago, aztropic said:

ANY red on the petiole boot shows it is not a pure filifera.The more red,the more robusta it has in it.Pic is of my pure filifera...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

 

 

Thank you! 
 

could you tell from the pictures I’ve added whether it has any filifera in it? 

[aztropic]

Very little if any filifera. That one will grow up to look like a typical mexican fan palm with the thinner trunk.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

 

 

[Plantasexoticas]

17 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Very little if any filifera. That one will grow up to look like a typical mexican fan palm with the thinner trunk.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

 

 

I did think that would be the prognosis! Thank you. I purchased Phoenix rupicola seeds too from this same site which have turned out to be hybrids too after I shared pictures of them 

[UK_Palms]

It looks like a hybrid Filibusta to me, James. Although it can be difficult to tell Washintonia apart at a young age i.e. before they start trunking properly, especially when hybridisation is involved. But as AZ said, the more red on the base of the petiole, the more Robusta dominant they tend to be. Your one doesn't appear consistent with pure Filifera or a Filifera dominant hybrid, so it may be a 50:50 hybrid at best, or a Robusta dominant hybrid. I don't think it's pure Robusta though as it isn't red enough. But again, it's hard to say for sure, especially when they are still small.

Have you got other specimens from the seed batch, or just the one lone survivor? If they are all quite red, you may well have pure Robusta seedlings. If they are from a batch of hybrid Filibusta seeds, I would expect a mix between Robusta dominant and Filifera dominant specimens. I have a mix of Robusta dominant, 50:50 types and Filifera dominant hybrids, all from the same seed batch. So I definitely notice a lot of variation in the same batch of hybrid seeds. My point is, having multiple specimens from the same seed batch will give you a better understanding of whether they are in fact hybrids, or actual Robusta's. That would also mean you might have a Filifera dominant specimen, even if it isn't pure Filifera. 

In my experience, true Filifera's, or Filifera dominant hybrids, have way more fibres on the ends of the frond tips than Robusta's and Robusta dominant hybrids. I'm not sure how consistent that measure is though across the board. To me at least, Filifera's always seem to have way more fibres. I'm yet to see a Robusta with tons of thick fibres. I have attached two photos of my own 'Filifera' which has a real fibre overload going on, compared to my other pure Robusta/Robusta dominant hybrid which is way less fibrous.

No doubt I will still have some people probably telling me that my Filifera (1st and 2nd pic) is not actually a true Filifera though, and rather a hybrid Filibusta. Just like how people have said my pure Robusta (3rd picture) is actually a Filifera dominant hybrid (it did survive 15F with minimal damage in 2018). What do you reckon? @aztropic

I have also attached a photo of some of my 2 year old hybrid Filibusta seedlings which have been left outdoors in pots unprotected. I haven't lost any due to cold, but I have lost several due to insect infestations and severe underwatering during droughts. 

[aztropic]

Lower leaf petiole is a very reliable indicator of how much robusta is in the palm.Totally green = filifera. ANY red and it's got robusta in it.Very simple to ID this species.Take another look at my filifera picture...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[UK_Palms]

1 minute ago, aztropic said:

Lower leaf petiole is a very reliable indicator of how much robusta is in the palm.Totally green = filifera. ANY red and it's got robusta in it.Very simple to ID this species.Take another look at my filifera picture...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Does that only apply to the outer side of the petiole base? Mine are totally green on the outer side of my 'Filifera', but the inside/topside of the petiole base has some red on it, as seen in the picture(s). But the outside/underside is green. What you are saying may also mean that both of my larger Washie's are Filifera's then.

How do you ID a pure Robusta as well? Is there a limit to how much red it must have on the base of the petiole, before it stops becoming a hybrid and can then be considered pure Robusta?

Cheers

[aztropic]

Yes.ID by the outside base but filifera is green - top and bottom,inside and out.Most washingtonia are hybrids.ANY red - there's robusta in it and it will have a thinner mature trunk than an example that is all green.Very simple.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Plantasexoticas]

12 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

It looks like a hybrid Filibusta to me, James. Although it can be difficult to tell Washintonia apart at a young age i.e. before they start trunking properly, especially when hybridisation is involved. But as AZ said, the more red on the base of the petiole, the more Robusta dominant they tend to be. Your one doesn't appear consistent with pure Filifera or a Filifera dominant hybrid, so it may be a 50:50 hybrid at best, or a Robusta dominant hybrid. I don't think it's pure Robusta though as it isn't red enough. But again, it's hard to say for sure, especially when they are still small.

Have you got other specimens from the seed batch, or just the one lone survivor? If they are all quite red, you may well have pure Robusta seedlings. If they are from a batch of hybrid Filibusta seeds, I would expect a mix between Robusta dominant and Filifera dominant specimens. I have a mix of Robusta dominant, 50:50 types and Filifera dominant hybrids, all from the same seed batch. So I definitely notice a lot of variation in the same batch of hybrid seeds. My point is, having multiple specimens from the same seed batch will give you a better understanding of whether they are in fact hybrids, or actual Robusta's. That would also mean you might have a Filifera dominant specimen, even if it isn't pure Filifera. 

In my experience, true Filifera's, or Filifera dominant hybrids, have way more fibres on the ends of the frond tips than Robusta's and Robusta dominant hybrids. I'm not sure how consistent that measure is though across the board. To me at least, Filifera's always seem to have way more fibres. I'm yet to see a Robusta with tons of thick fibres. I have attached two photos of my own 'Filifera' which has a real fibre overload going on, compared to my other pure Robusta/Robusta dominant hybrid which is way less fibrous.

No doubt I will still have some people probably telling me that my Filifera (1st and 2nd pic) is not actually a true Filifera though, and rather a hybrid Filibusta. Just like how people have said my pure Robusta (3rd picture) is actually a Filifera dominant hybrid (it did survive 15F with minimal damage in 2018). What do you reckon? @aztropic

I have also attached a photo of some of my 2 year old hybrid Filibusta seedlings which have been left outdoors in pots unprotected. I haven't lost any due to cold, but I have lost several due to insect infestations and severe underwatering during droughts. 

Those first two palms are insane with the extra filaments! I love this look, it was the reason I purchased Filifera seeds to get a different looking palm and was told that they had a lot more fringing. 
 

I did guess mine was a hybrid but I’m still happy with its growth. Sadly it’s the only one left of the few seeds I had but I do like how it has many more filaments than my Robusta have. If I purchase again it won’t be from that site who have been disappointing. 
 

your palms look amazing though! 

[Plantasexoticas]

8 hours ago, aztropic said:

Yes.ID by the outside base but filifera is green - top and bottom,inside and out.Most washingtonia are hybrids.ANY red - there's robusta in it and it will have a thinner mature trunk than an example that is all green.Very simple.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Great looking palm and I can see it’s a far chunkier palm than robusta, thank you for your help and advice 

[Dimovi]

It is almost certainly not robusta and it does have a lot of filifera characteristics. The trunk of filifera is conical and the leaf base mostly green.

If you want free pure filifera seeds let me know.

For a reference this is a pure robusta, the base is brown and more cylindrical and look at these thorns.

[cisco]

I found the link here and bookmarked it.  I hope this help.

http://palmvrienden.net/gblapalmeraie/2017/07/05/how-to-recognize-the-difference-between-washingtonia-filifera-and-robusta/