Sacramento Palm Ideas

[bar]

Hello,

I need something really cool for Sacramento.  Just as a quick background, I've got four Dypsis decipiens, doing well, and growing S-L-O-W-L-Y.  Successful with Chambeyronia macrocarpa in protected area. Chuniophoenix nana and hainanensis do well here too, as do Lanonia dasyantha (in protected spot).  So I do have some cool things already.  BUT...

I have a spot where I want to create  some shade by placing a relatively fast growing palm about ten to fifteen feet to the west, to decrease the direct hot sun from about 2-5 PM.  It shouldn't become tremendous, however because then it will overpower the whole area. The palm will start out with a bit of dappled sun, then grow into the hot full sun once it reaches about five to six feet tall. I have been communicating with Phil at Jungle Music, and he has suggested a Foxtail.  However it seems that not too many people have been successful with this in the central valley. 

Some thoughts so far:  Phil says the plants below will all be marginal in Sacramento (I live in South Land Park).  I have seen Caryota in the neighborhood growing with a bit of damage, and slowly. My Caryota "Himalaya" has finally started to grow, at about two leaves per year, so it's slow for me as well.   Also saw something that appeared "dypsis like" from afar, but the owners ripped it out before I had a chance to even identify it, let alone take it off their hands! 

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana: 24 - 26

Dypsis madagascariensis 24-25

Dypsis prestoniana: 24-25 (sun tolerant?)

Ptychosperma rakkii: 24 - 25

Roystonea borinquena: 24-25

 

I'd love to hear some ideas, especially if you are growing in the Sacramento area.

 

By the way, we are still working with the city council on creating the Sacramento Botanical Garden.  It will have a tropical look garden with (drum roll please...) lots of palms!

 

Thanks for your help!

Bruce

[tim_brissy_13]

Pretty sure my climate is similar to Sacramento but just on the opposite side of the globe. What about something like Parajubaea suncka? Not as huge as its relatives but still fast growing and should give some nice filtered light. 

[tim_brissy_13]

I’ve just seen your summer days are a lot hotter on average than mine, but nights cool similarly so I think Parajubaea should still be ok especially if it’s quite dry in summer. 

[bar]

Thanks Tim.  

I've actually already got three Parajubaea torallyi towards the rear of my property.  It is listed as hardy to 24 degrees, which is more or less the same as the others I am thinking of.  I would have placed the P. sunkha on the short list if I didn't have the torallyi already!  Also, I am trying to put in something with a crownshaft if possible.

 

Bruce

[tim_brissy_13]

How does Kentiopsis oliviformis go in your area? They seem to be ok with hot sun once they adjust to it so the only question would be absolute minimum temperature. A few years ago mine had less damage from a fairly heavy frost than nearby A. cunninghamiana and myolensis to put it in perspective (that same frost also killed a D baronii outright that was next to the Kentiopsis. 

[doubravsky]

I bet Beccariophoenix Alfredii would be a winner for you......

[bar]

Thanks.  I'll check out those two.  Any more ideas are greatly appreciated!

Bruce

[Darold Petty]

Do not use Parajubaea cocoides, it is more suited for coastal areas.  The Bolivian ones are better,   P. torallyi or P. sunkha.  Good luck !  

[enigma99]

I would add a kentiopsis as well. They seem to do fine. Archontophoenix are bulletproof in this area and good for protecting more tender stuff.

If you got a shady spot, get a rhopalostylis baueri. Mine are cranking. Plain old majesty palms are an idea. 

Stay away from the foxtails. Although foxy ladys seem to do better (hybrid) 

Royals, maybe? In Rocklin I have clay and that kills them every year. They do fine in a pot outside all winter but then die once in the ground. Needs to drain excellent. if you try it, put it on a southern sunny wall and perhaps try mounding 

I have had success with pritchardia remota and  beccarianna. And B alfredii as mentioned above are excellent. Mine are getting huge

Edited May 12, 2020 by enigma99

[Stelios]

Tri-bear (dypsis decaryi x leptocheilos)

[enigma99]

2 hours ago, Stelios said:

Tri-bear (dypsis decaryi x leptocheilos)

+1!  I have two and they are growing flawlessly. Also both seem to do fine decaryi and leptocheilos. I’ve got a free decaryi in a 20g if you want it.

[bar]

Looks like Archontophoenix cunninghamiana may end up  being the best bet for me.  How does it do with our hot sun?

Any other suggestions before I order?

 

Bruce

[doubravsky]

Here in riverside- they struggle a bit in full sun when young... some leaf burn.. but with enough water they get through it and can handle the heat well...

[tim_brissy_13]

4 hours ago, bar said:

Looks like Archontophoenix cunninghamiana may end up  being the best bet for me.  How does it do with our hot sun?

Any other suggestions before I order?

 

Bruce

Maybe Rhopalostylis sapida var. Oceana (Chatham Island)? If you can protect it from full sun when it’s young they are quite fast and become tough when they get older. The only question would be your hot summers but I’d bet it would cope at least as well as a A cunninghamiana and is a cool looking palm for something a bit different. 

[Ben in Norcal]

I would focus on some of the ideas from Derrick and others close to you/in similar climes.  You need to not only regard absolute hardiness figures - but our extreme heat, and very damp, cool winter conditions.  As an example, a Roystonea is hardy to the mid 20s (purportedly), but you have zero chance with it due to winter wet, outside of a pot anyway.  They give up the ghost every spring even here, and I am warmer than you.  A foxtail may make it a year or two but will spot up dreadfully and look terrible even in a freeze free winter here.  They just aren't worth it as they look like crap for most of the year.  Trust me, Derrick, myself, and others have far too many attempts with these genus under our belt!

Coco Queens are a suggestion I haven't seen yet and one of my faves/a staple of my yard.  They also take sun better from a young age than A. cunninghamiana.  Other hybrids of many different types are also a good, bulletproof choice!

[Ben in Norcal]

BTW - I would probably cross off everything from your original list from Phil, bar the Achontophoenix.  I am all for trial and error - you never learn about palms or your microclimate otherwise - and after all my yard is dubbed "the killing fields!"  But my experience suggests minimal chance of success with all of those suggestions.  The absolute hardiness of these plants, again, doesn't account for our "context."

[bar]

Thank you all, for your help.  I've settled on the Archontophoenix.  If Derrick says it's bulletproof in Rocklin, I think I can confidently plant it here!

 

Bruce

[Ben in Norcal]

12 minutes ago, bar said:

Thank you all, for your help.  I've settled on the Archontophoenix.  If Derrick says it's bulletproof in Rocklin, I think I can confidently plant it here!

 

Bruce

You make it sound like you are buying one palm.  This is just the beginning. 

If you buy from Lowes/HD, be aware they will be greenhouse grown and unless adapted gradually, will burn to a crisp in full summer sun in Sac.  They will likely survive but look bad for a lengthy time.  Plant in no more than 50% sun, or adapt to full sun here gradually, would be my recommendation.

Good luck with it!

[bar]

Oh no!  This is NOT the beginning, it's actually the end!  I've got three Sabal causarium, one unhappy Cyphophoenix elegans, a Caryota "Himalaya", four Chuniophoenix hainanensis, three C. nana, Lanonia dasyantha, one Chamberyonia macrocarpa and two recently planted, three Brahea (maybe armata, very gray leaves), Acoelorrhaphe wrightii, three Arenga engleri, four queen palms, a small grove of Trachycarpus fortunei, lots of Chamaedorea radicallis, both regular and tree form, 3 C. metallica, 3 C. ernesti-augustii, 4 C microspadix, Dypsis baronii, D. heteromorpha, and 4 D. decipiens, rhapis excelsia, and tons of small mystery Trachycarpus like plants that are definitely NOT fortunei! 

And that's just what's in the ground;  Lots of seedlings growing up, including Sabal minor, S. maritima, S. mauritiformis, Chamaedorea woodsoniana, Rheinhardtia gracillis, Dypsis saintelucei, Licuala 'elegans", and I am sure some others I can't remember.

So I am simply about OUT of room for anything else, but I have space for one or maybe two more large trees, that I want to be super special.  Sacramento is, in a way a very difficult region to figure out what to grow, because it is just a bit on the borderline for average absolute yearly minimum temperature.  Of course, in the city, we get a few degrees of extra warmth, but the summer sun is brutal.  Phil from Jungle Music is a great resource, by the way, and has been helping me try to find something as well.  

In summary, it's not that I am planting just one palm.  I'm just down to the last few spaces that are available to create the canopy, and I would love to put in a crownshaft palm that will grow fast enough to enjoy within five years!  I'm not getting any younger!  

Bruce

[Ben in Norcal]

10 minutes ago, bar said:

Oh no!  This is NOT the beginning, it's actually the end!  I've got three Sabal causarium, one unhappy Cyphophoenix elegans, a Caryota "Himalaya", four Chuniophoenix hainanensis, three C. nana, Lanonia dasyantha, one Chamberyonia macrocarpa and two recently planted, three Brahea (maybe armata, very gray leaves), Acoelorrhaphe wrightii, three Arenga engleri, four queen palms, a small grove of Trachycarpus fortunei, lots of Chamaedorea radicallis, both regular and tree form, 3 C. metallica, 3 C. ernesti-augustii, 4 C microspadix, Dypsis baronii, D. heteromorpha, and 4 D. decipiens, rhapis excelsia, and tons of small mystery Trachycarpus like plants that are definitely NOT fortunei! 

And that's just what's in the ground;  Lots of seedlings growing up, including Sabal minor, S. maritima, S. mauritiformis, Chamaedorea woodsoniana, Rheinhardtia gracillis, Dypsis saintelucei, Licuala 'elegans", and I am sure some others I can't remember.

So I am simply about OUT of room for anything else, but I have space for one or maybe two more large trees, that I want to be super special.  Sacramento is, in a way a very difficult region to figure out what to grow, because it is just a bit on the borderline for average absolute yearly minimum temperature.  Of course, in the city, we get a few degrees of extra warmth, but the summer sun is brutal.  Phil from Jungle Music is a great resource, by the way, and has been helping me try to find something as well.  

In summary, it's not that I am planting just one palm.  I'm just down to the last few spaces that are available to create the canopy, and I would love to put in a crownshaft palm that will grow fast enough to enjoy within five years!  I'm not getting any younger!  

Bruce

I am at the stage, even with a third of an acre (a lot in California), where I have to delete to add.  It still happens.  A lot.

Phil is great.  But, he naturally doesn't know much about the climate we have, or the implications for hardiness, in our region.  Hardiness for different genus can be spot on with what Phil thinks it is, or wildly off.  That's natural; it's a vastly different climate.  In general, our limiting factor is not cold (which is largely commensurate in SoCal).  We have a very different cool + wet, and extreme heat, vs. SoCal coast.  Our local stories are the ones we should all rely on.  IMHO.  Hardiness in Socal is very different here, more often than not.

[enigma99]

Also when you get your archontophoenix, limit it to 15gal. I bought about ten 24” boxes and all of my 3-15 gal range are cranking and actually passing them up. Because they are sooo extremely root sensitive its easy to stunt them

[doubravsky]

+1 for the smaller size. I bought some archontos in 24” boxes... and the 5 gallon ones I planted the same year caught them within 3 years....