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Christmas Palm (Veitchia Merrillii) in mostly shade


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Posted

Hi everyone!

I just ordered a Christmas Palm (veitchia merrillii) because it seems like it will fit my small patio ok. I have 2 sides; one that is in full sunlight practically all day, and one side where the ground never gets sun, but the top of a tall plant would get a few hours every day. My preference for design would be to plant the tree on the side that doesn't get full sun because I fear the branches would cover the entrance to my garage door too much; plus, i can see the shaded section from all windows in my house which is nice. 

Question: will it survive getting that top-only sun? Or does the trunk need to get the sun, too? I live in the Los Angeles area, so it's very hot in the summer, and sunshine most of the year.

Posted

Unless it gets cold during winter then i dont see an issue. But if your talking about only the top part of the fronds getting sun then that would be an issue. All the fronds need sunlight but i think the trunk would be fine. Again as long as it doesnt get cold then you shouldnt have any problems with that location.

Palms - 1 Bismarckia nobilis, 2 Butia odorataBxJ1 BxJxBxS1 BxSChamaerops humilis1 Chambeyronia macrocarpa, 1 Chamaedorea microspadix1 Hyophorbe lagenicaulis1 Hyophorbe verschaffeltiiLivistona chinensis1 Livistona nitida, 1 Phoenix canariensis2 Phoenix roebeleniiRavenea rivularis1 Rhapis excelsa1 Sabal bermudanaSabal palmetto4 Syagrus romanzoffianaTrachycarpus fortunei4 Washingtonia robusta
Total: 39

Posted

Thanks for the advice, JLM! Our winter was pretty cold this year... a few months of 50 degree lows and low 60 degree highs. Is that too cold for this palm?

  • Like 1
Posted

@Mitch's Paradise Welcome to the forums!  They are certainly heat lovers.  Here, they are more prone to have issues with our sudden freezes than anything.  50 degree lows don't bother them, but if you get down around 30F or have frost, that's typically when the problems start.  They've also changed botanical names from Veitchia merrillii to Adonidia merrillii.  There is a tag at Lake Wire here in Lakeland, FL that still has the old botanical name.

  • Upvote 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Posted
4 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@Mitch's Paradise Welcome to the forums!  They are certainly heat lovers.  Here, they are more prone to have issues with our sudden freezes than anything.  50 degree lows don't bother them, but if you get down around 30F or have frost, that's typically when the problems start.  They've also changed botanical names from Veitchia merrillii to Adonidia merrillii.  There is a tag at Lake Wire here in Lakeland, FL that still has the old botanical name.

I have been calling it the Adonidia Merrillii up until a couple days ago when I looked at my order and it was actually listed as Veitchia Merrilli. I freaked out because I wasn't sure if that was exactly the same thing as all the research I had done on the Adonidia, but I guess it is. Thanks for confirming!
Also, it never gets to 30s. I have seen low 40s once here, but not in a few years. I am also about 20 miles north of Los Angeles where it is maybe 8-12 degrees hotter. I hope that means my palm will thrive better!

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Posted

I had a beloved Adonidia for 12 years here in SoCal that I grew from seed I collected on vacation. I finally lost it a couple years back following an especially prolonged winter. My experience was that it was pretty tolerant of a wide range on sun exposure (hence the reason they’re often used as indoor palms in airports; etc.) But they love full sun if they can get it. As the guys in Florida can attest, they can survive the occasional, short lived, severe cold snap well enough. For us out west though, it is our prolonged 5 month cool season that they just can’t seem to abide by. Having said that, I’m germinating more seeds. Self torture is my thing apparently. Good luck with yours.

  • Upvote 2

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

Posted

Welcome! As was pointed out above, these are not only cold intolerant, but also cool intolerant. They don’t like prolonged 40s or 50s. In that regard, it seems your full sun location would work better for it since the winter sun would increase the temp. Furthermore, too much shade causes the trunks to grow thin and the fronds won’t flush out as much. 
hope it does well for you. These are highly ornamental palms, even if they are a bit over planted around florida. Good luck!

  • Upvote 1
Posted

All great advice. Thank you so much everyone! Can't wait until it comes in.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Another question: if I WANT to keep the trunk somewhat thin, and the fronds not too extended, it would be ok to put it in the shadier section of my patio? It isn't full shade, but the top of the palm would get long hours of sun when it is about 5 feet tall. As a 3 foot tree, it would a couple hours of sun a day. I just don't want it to die... advice on that? Thanks!!Let me ask one more question.. I would like it t

  • 4 weeks later...
Posted

Hi everyone! I received the 3-palm cluster almost a month ago, and I decided to very carefully separate them.. thankfully, I purchased the plant warranty.. although, it's odd.. everyone is saying they need full sun, however, the one I planted in the most sun is completely dead. the one that doesn't get as much seems to be hanging on, and the one in the pot on the patio doesn't seem to be doing well...

I am going to get another one that is younger and see if it is safer to separate the roots and try again. I don't know what I did wrong, though, with the one that gets the most sun. I used palm fertilizer, root food, and organic soil mix when I planted it.  Any other advice?

Posted

I'd be careful about using fertilizer after separating and transplanting unless it was a time/slow release fert like osmocote.Let the plant recover from any root damage/transplant shock,then fertilise after recovery.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

  • Like 1

Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

Posted

My advice would be to separate them into pots next time and give them a chance to recover in ideal conditions. That's much easier to control with potted plants than it is with those in ground. Once they're settled in you can put them in the ground with negligible root disturbance.

These palms grow well in hot exposed situations, but you need to give young plants time to slowly adjust.

  • Like 1
Posted
3 hours ago, Mitch's Paradise said:

Hi everyone! I received the 3-palm cluster almost a month ago, and I decided to very carefully separate them.. thankfully, I purchased the plant warranty.. although, it's odd.. everyone is saying they need full sun, however, the one I planted in the most sun is completely dead. the one that doesn't get as much seems to be hanging on, and the one in the pot on the patio doesn't seem to be doing well...

I am going to get another one that is younger and see if it is safer to separate the roots and try again. I don't know what I did wrong, though, with the one that gets the most sun. I used palm fertilizer, root food, and organic soil mix when I planted it.  Any other advice?

Sounds like you ordered from FGT? 

The ones that died in the sun were probably sunburnt. Figure out from the nursery if they were field grown or shade grown. Even being in the box for a few days from shipping can cause them to lose sun tolerance. Acclimate them to full sun slowly over 2 weeks to avoid burning them..

Splitting them up is tricky and probably might have killed them as well. Combine that with quick fertilizing and sure to be a mess somewhere :(

My advice is try to order single stems from the start, acclimate to full sun over 2 weeks, and then start fertilizing.

Posted
14 minutes ago, PalmX said:

Sounds like you ordered from FGT? 

The ones that died in the sun were probably sunburnt. Figure out from the nursery if they were field grown or shade grown. Even being in the box for a few days from shipping can cause them to lose sun tolerance. Acclimate them to full sun slowly over 2 weeks to avoid burning them..

Splitting them up is tricky and probably might have killed them as well. Combine that with quick fertilizing and sure to be a mess somewhere :(

My advice is try to order single stems from the start, acclimate to full sun over 2 weeks, and then start fertilizing.

Yes, they are from FGT. I'm happy one of them isn't dead yet. It has one mostly strong fronds, 2 dead ones, and 1 that is only half brown. Photo below of the seemingly healthiest one.

I didn't realize fertilizing to soon after planting was bad. I put down the fertilizer maybe 2 weeks after I planted them, so I thought it was fine. Great tip on slowly acclimating to sun! I'll definitely do that with the replacement they send me. I wanted only 1 palm, but they're always grouped in 3's. 

healthy palm.jpg

  • Upvote 1
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Mitch's Paradise said:

Yes, they are from FGT. I'm happy one of them isn't dead yet. It has one mostly strong fronds, 2 dead ones, and 1 that is only half brown. Photo below of the seemingly healthiest one.

I didn't realize fertilizing to soon after planting was bad. I put down the fertilizer maybe 2 weeks after I planted them, so I thought it was fine. Great tip on slowly acclimating to sun! I'll definitely do that with the replacement they send me. I wanted only 1 palm, but they're always grouped in 3's. 

 

Yeah they're from SC so most likely not field grown.

I've ordered from them as well., I really had to baby them into the full sun- several weeks- starting at 3 hours of morning sun only, working up to about 9 hours full/filtered sun.

I used the mix, and hormone back in February when I repotted it and just had my first new frond open, and it was already about 12 inches when they sent it. Maybe with the heat and some fert they will grow quicker.

But I too was hoping for a single trunk so I wound up ordering from RealPalmTrees.com and I am much happier with what I got for the $$$. You can pick the exact size and stems you want.

Edited by PalmX
Posted
10 hours ago, PalmX said:

Yeah they're from SC so most likely not field grown.

I've ordered from them as well., I really had to baby them into the full sun- several weeks- starting at 3 hours of morning sun only, working up to about 9 hours full/filtered sun.

I used the mix, and hormone back in February when I repotted it and just had my first new frond open, and it was already about 12 inches when they sent it. Maybe with the heat and some fert they will grow quicker.

But I too was hoping for a single trunk so I wound up ordering from RealPalmTrees.com and I am much happier with what I got for the $$$. You can pick the exact size and stems you want.

oh man, this is all fantastic advice. Thanks! Unfortunately, I have to stick with Fast Growing Trees since I have a warranty with them on this tree.. Looks like it can ship quicker now, though, so they won't be stuck in that box and truck for the 8 days it was during the first shipment. 

Do you have Christmas Palms? Are they easier to separate if they are younger?

Posted
8 hours ago, Mitch's Paradise said:

oh man, this is all fantastic advice. Thanks! Unfortunately, I have to stick with Fast Growing Trees since I have a warranty with them on this tree.. Looks like it can ship quicker now, though, so they won't be stuck in that box and truck for the 8 days it was during the first shipment. 

Do you have Christmas Palms? Are they easier to separate if they are younger?

Yes they're all Christmas palms. Mine shipped  to Georgia so they got here in about 2 days, and they still have some drama from shipping, because it was dipping into the high 30's at night when shipped.

8 days in a box would probably be detrimental to a Christmas palm.

I should clarify, the palms I got were 2-3 feet, but the first new frond that opened was about 12 inches grown already when I got it.

I'm not sure about separating them, I didn't try because most people, including FGT, recommended I don't. That's why I ordered the single trunk from RPT.  Now I have 3 Christmas palms lol.  2 from FGT and a single trunk from RPT.

Posted
On 6/2/2020 at 5:41 PM, PalmX said:

Yes they're all Christmas palms. Mine shipped  to Georgia so they got here in about 2 days, and they still have some drama from shipping, because it was dipping into the high 30's at night when shipped.

8 days in a box would probably be detrimental to a Christmas palm.

I should clarify, the palms I got were 2-3 feet, but the first new frond that opened was about 12 inches grown already when I got it.

I'm not sure about separating them, I didn't try because most people, including FGT, recommended I don't. That's why I ordered the single trunk from RPT.  Now I have 3 Christmas palms lol.  2 from FGT and a single trunk from RPT.

Thank you! My new Christmas Palms are arriving today, and the space I have does not allow for 3 of them to grow... hoping it only has 2 palms which will be a very tight fit, too, but 1 in each corner was what I wanted :( 
RPT is far more expensive from what I'm seeing, too. My Christmas Palms from FGT only cost $80, while I'm seeing $500 for taller, single Christmas Palms from RPT. Since it is really hot now in Southern California, I hope that helps them start off right. I'll update on the progress!

Posted
On 6/2/2020 at 5:41 PM, PalmX said:

Yes they're all Christmas palms. Mine shipped  to Georgia so they got here in about 2 days, and they still have some drama from shipping, because it was dipping into the high 30's at night when shipped.

8 days in a box would probably be detrimental to a Christmas palm.

I should clarify, the palms I got were 2-3 feet, but the first new frond that opened was about 12 inches grown already when I got it.

I'm not sure about separating them, I didn't try because most people, including FGT, recommended I don't. That's why I ordered the single trunk from RPT.  Now I have 3 Christmas palms lol.  2 from FGT and a single trunk from RPT.

Hi again. I received the palms yesterday, and there are, of course, 3 of them in the pot. They're a bit thicker and bigger in general than the first ones I got, so I'm worried about separating them. However, I will have them in their original pot for I guess about 4 days, and then try to separate into 3 pots. I was planning on giving them 1 hour of sun today and tomorrow, maybe 2 hours of sun the next couple days, then 3 hours for 2 days and so on...  I would put them in the ground in 2-3 weeks. Do you think that is a safe plan?

I'd fertilize the soil after 2 weeks of them being in the ground so they settle first. I really want these ones to make it.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mitch's Paradise said:

Hi again. I received the palms yesterday, and there are, of course, 3 of them in the pot. They're a bit thicker and bigger in general than the first ones I got, so I'm worried about separating them. However, I will have them in their original pot for I guess about 4 days, and then try to separate into 3 pots. I was planning on giving them 1 hour of sun today and tomorrow, maybe 2 hours of sun the next couple days, then 3 hours for 2 days and so on...  I would put them in the ground in 2-3 weeks. Do you think that is a safe plan?

I'd fertilize the soil after 2 weeks of them being in the ground so they settle first. I really want these ones to make it.

Can you post some pictures of them? I would recommend keeping the bigger one, and cutting the other two at the base that are smallest. 100% success rate for your single trunk palm. Splitting them is not worth it having the two runts.

Start off with a 2-3 days of sitting in shade the whole day just to get them accustomed to sunlight and wind outside. Then move to an area where it will get about 3 hours of morning sun and then move it into shade again for the rest of the day.. Then move up to 2 days of 4 hours morning sun, then 2 days of 5 hours, etc. until it's getting intense afternoon sun for 6 hours a day.  Then it will be ready for wherever you put it.

I know the RPT is expensive, but it's the best site I've found where you can pick the size and amount of stems you want. The single trunk I got was $300 shipped for the 6ft version,, but what they sent was about 7 feet tall with 5+ feet of clear trunk.  
 

Edited by PalmX
Posted
12 minutes ago, PalmX said:

Can you post some pictures of them? I would recommend keeping the bigger one, and cutting the other two at the base that are smallest. 100% success rate for your single trunk palm. Splitting them is not worth it having the two runts.

Start off with a 2-3 days of sitting in shade the whole day just to get them accustomed to sunlight and wind outside. Then move to an area where it will get about 3 hours of morning sun and then move it into shade again. (days 3-5). Then move up to 2 days of 4 hours morning sun, then 2 days of 5 hours, etc. until it's getting afternoon sun for 6 hours a day.  Then it will be ready for wherever you put it.

I know the RPT is expensive, but it's the best site I've found where you can pick the size and amount of stems you want. The single trunk I got was $300 shipped for the 6ft version,, but what they sent was about 7 feet tall with 5+ feet of clear trunk.  
 

That sounds like a great idea to cut off 2 of the trees and save the root separating... but my fear with that is that the one I save doesn't survive, so I wanted to keep one, at least, in a planter as a backup. Also, would the other roots die and rot, or affect the tree I'd want to save? Pics of what it looks like now!

day 2.jpg

day1.jpg

day3.jpg

Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Mitch's Paradise said:

That sounds like a great idea to cut off 2 of the trees and save the root separating... but my fear with that is that the one I save doesn't survive, so I wanted to keep one, at least, in a planter as a backup. Also, would the other roots die and rot, or affect the tree I'd want to save? Pics of what it looks like now!

 

 

 

Looks bigger than the ones I got from FGT! In this video you can see mine. The one on the right was shipped to me as a 4 trunk, but I cut the two smallest off.  I've had both of these since Feb. The one in the middle I've only had a few weeks now, and it was from RPT. 

I would just recommend snipping them and taking care to acclimate the single slowly. There's much higher risk of losing all 3 if you separate the roots. 

Edited by PalmX
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, PalmX said:

Looks bigger than the ones I got from FGT! In this video you can see mine. The one on the right was shipped to me as a 4 trunk, but I cut the two smallest off.  I've had both of these since Feb. The one in the middle I've only had a few weeks now, and it was from RPT. 

I would just recommend snipping them and taking care to acclimate the single slowly. There's much higher risk of losing all 3 if you separate the roots. 

Ok. I guess that is a better point than to try to separate them. Yes, these ones are WAY bigger than the first ones they sent (and I ordered a larger size initially and a smaller size this time around, hmmmm). I will keep it out of the sun for a little longer and follow your instructions. Thank you so much.

 

Question, though. I planted this guy on May 10th, and this is what it looks like today. Does it seem like it is going to make it? I lightly water it 3 times a week now. There is a dead frond in the back, and the other ones haven't gotten any more brown in weeks.

palm1.jpg

Edited by Mitch's Paradise

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