Boron Question

[The Gerg]

Hello, as you can see in the pic below, I have a leaning Kentia. I cut off most the fronds on the downside to eliminate some weight.

I know there has been several topics on this, I think the concensus is that most feel that boron could possibly help.

I plan to give it about 2 1/2 cups of PalmGain. How much of the Borax should I use? I’m not sure. I assume too much could be harmful and too little would be useless.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Greg

[Darold Petty]

I would say 'Ix-nay' on the Borax.  While boron is essential there is a narrow range between sufficient and toxic.  If your Palmgain includes boron that should be enough.  Beyond the synthetic fertilizer I would use a rich, organic compost.      Try to obtain a compost sourced from several ingredients rather than just a few.  I use one containing horse manure, cow manure, grape pomace, rice hulls, and greensand.  

Anyone old enough to remember Death Valley Days ?  I believe Ronald Reagan was one of the hosts!

 

[-2 brian]

1 hour ago, The Gerg said:

Hello, as you can see in the pic below, I have a leaning Kentia. I cut off most the fronds on the downside to eliminate some weight.

I know there has been several topics on this, I think the concensus is that most feel that boron could possibly help.

I plan to give it about 2 1/2 cups of PalmGain. How much of the Borax should I use? I’m not sure. I assume too much could be harmful and too little would be useless.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Greg

I had one out of a triple I have get it years ago and I remember coming across an article by Dr Henry Donselman I believe; that mentioned they had some success with cutting the head off ( low enough but obviously not below the heart) I correspond with him through email about it and gave it a shot. I cut off the top but still had a few of the lower fronds on for generating energy. It grew back rather quickly I recall & was successfully in straightening out and the new fronds started opening to all sides again. After awhile I noticed the fronds not separating off again so I would manually separate them with my pole prunner and that seemed to help for awhile. Eventually it came back again and I had that trunk cut down, 

[-2 brian]

Just now, -2 brian said:

I had one out of a triple I have get it years ago and I remember coming across an article by Dr Henry Donselman I believe; that mentioned they had some success with cutting the head off ( low enough but obviously not below the heart) I correspond with him through email about it and gave it a shot. I cut off the top but still had a few of the lower fronds on for generating energy. It grew back rather quickly I recall & was successfully in straightening out and the new fronds started opening to all sides again. After awhile I noticed the fronds not separating off again so I would manually separate them with my pole prunner and that seemed to help for awhile. Eventually it came back again and I had that trunk cut down, 

This all took place over several years. I was actually glad to have one less Kentia to deal with. Good luck whatever u decide to do. Defiantly sanitize your tools if you do any trimming on it 

[The Gerg]

Thanks for the input. I will first try the boron treatment. If that doesn’t look like it is doing anything then maybe more aggressive pruning. This is the second one of these to do this to me. Both about that size in picture. Wondering if I’m doing something wrong in my care of them. Maybe not enough fertilizer. I have another smaller one still doing good. My fingers are crossed it won’t do the same thing when it gets a little bigger.

I think Len mentioned to me in a thread awhile back he thinks it could possibly be mites??? I might also look into that.
 

[Tyrone]

Ive experienced this problem before but never successfully treated it. I managed to speak to Don Hodel??? many years ago who had written info on this regarding the leaning crown syndrome. Anyway I thought at the time that it may be a pH thing. Howea forsteriana in habitat grows on limestone rich sands, so high pH from 7, 7.5 and higher. This is different to Howea belmoreana which grows on gravelly granite derived loams that are on the acidic side. I thought maybe adding lime may fix it, but as he pointed out to me, California is basically high pH clays which blew my theory. Even he didn't have an absolute answer. But I think he said the problem is possibly connected to boron. 

Boron is needed by plants in minuscule amounts and at the right time. It is highly leached by water. Boron controls tissue growth which in a palm is right in the bud area. My theory is that if a palm gets most of the boron leached away in a wet event, the growing bud may develop faster on one side than the other, creating a bend, that may not even be noticed in the beginning. After some time the boron deficiency disappears maybe from the supply of mulch and organic material that naturally has it. However, if the palm already has a bent growing bud, no amount of boron will now fix it. Every new leaf that comes out of the new bud is going to be bent because that's the only shape its being allowed to form by the original boron deficiency event that deformed the bud. Ive heard of people deeply cutting into the bud and using ropes and things to straighten things out with also a bit of removal of deformed leaves with some success. Untreated the palm will tend to grow back into the ground and eventually dies.

As others have mentioned you can seriously overdose the palm on boron and adding organic matter will likely do the trick to fix the deficiency in the first place. But I think without surgery the palm is stuck in the bent condition.

[-2 brian]

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

Ive experienced this problem before but never successfully treated it. I managed to speak to Don Hodel??? many years ago who had written info on this regarding the leaning crown syndrome. Anyway I thought at the time that it may be a pH thing. Howea forsteriana in habitat grows on limestone rich sands, so high pH from 7, 7.5 and higher. This is different to Howea belmoreana which grows on gravelly granite derived loams that are on the acidic side. I thought maybe adding lime may fix it, but as he pointed out to me, California is basically high pH clays which blew my theory. Even he didn't have an absolute answer. But I think he said the problem is possibly connected to boron. 

Boron is needed by plants in minuscule amounts and at the right time. It is highly leached by water. Boron controls tissue growth which in a palm is right in the bud area. My theory is that if a palm gets most of the boron leached away in a wet event, the growing bud may develop faster on one side than the other, creating a bend, that may not even be noticed in the beginning. After some time the boron deficiency disappears maybe from the supply of mulch and organic material that naturally has it. However, if the palm already has a bent growing bud, no amount of boron will now fix it. Every new leaf that comes out of the new bud is going to be bent because that's the only shape its being allowed to form by the original boron deficiency event that deformed the bud. Ive heard of people deeply cutting into the bud and using ropes and things to straighten things out with also a bit of removal of deformed leaves with some success. Untreated the palm will tend to grow back into the ground and eventually dies.

As others have mentioned you can seriously overdose the palm on boron and adding organic matter will likely do the trick to fix the deficiency in the first place. But I think without surgery the palm is stuck in the bent condition.

This sounds like the same article i came across and advice I received years ago. I don’t recall exactly who the author of he article was that I corresponded with. Seems like it must have been Don Hodel as Tyrone points out ray her then Dr. Donselman. Mine was leaning a bit worse then that before I attempted correction. 

[The Gerg]

8 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

I would say 'Ix-nay' on the Borax.  While boron is essential there is a narrow range between sufficient and toxic.  If your Palmgain includes boron that should be enough.  Beyond the synthetic fertilizer I would use a rich, organic compost.      Try to obtain a compost sourced from several ingredients rather than just a few.  I use one containing horse manure, cow manure, grape pomace, rice hulls, and greensand.  

Anyone old enough to remember Death Valley Days ?  I believe Ronald Reagan was one of the hosts!

 

Darold, somehow earlier when viewing from my phone I missed this. Thanks for input. Maybe I will try this.

[The Gerg]

2 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Ive experienced this problem before but never successfully treated it. I managed to speak to Don Hodel??? many years ago who had written info on this regarding the leaning crown syndrome. Anyway I thought at the time that it may be a pH thing. Howea forsteriana in habitat grows on limestone rich sands, so high pH from 7, 7.5 and higher. This is different to Howea belmoreana which grows on gravelly granite derived loams that are on the acidic side. I thought maybe adding lime may fix it, but as he pointed out to me, California is basically high pH clays which blew my theory. Even he didn't have an absolute answer. But I think he said the problem is possibly connected to boron. 

Boron is needed by plants in minuscule amounts and at the right time. It is highly leached by water. Boron controls tissue growth which in a palm is right in the bud area. My theory is that if a palm gets most of the boron leached away in a wet event, the growing bud may develop faster on one side than the other, creating a bend, that may not even be noticed in the beginning. After some time the boron deficiency disappears maybe from the supply of mulch and organic material that naturally has it. However, if the palm already has a bent growing bud, no amount of boron will now fix it. Every new leaf that comes out of the new bud is going to be bent because that's the only shape its being allowed to form by the original boron deficiency event that deformed the bud. Ive heard of people deeply cutting into the bud and using ropes and things to straighten things out with also a bit of removal of deformed leaves with some success. Untreated the palm will tend to grow back into the ground and eventually dies.

As others have mentioned you can seriously overdose the palm on boron and adding organic matter will likely do the trick to fix the deficiency in the first place. But I think without surgery the palm is stuck in the bent condition.

Thanks Tyrone. Yeah, ultimately I feel like it’s an eventual gonner. I’ve already given a lot of thought into just removing and replacing.

Thats why I thought what do I have to lose with the boron. Maybe try the rich organic mulch as Darold suggests too. Or just save time and replace sooner than later. Get straight to the point.

[Steve in Florida]

A leaning crown without deformed leaflets is often a symptom of phytophthora.  I routinely drench with Banrot and a mild boron solution for this problem and have always seen improvement .