Are There Any Large Trunking Cyphophoenix alba in SoCal?

[joe_OC]

New Cal palms are slow, but steady growers for me.  The only palm I really have a hard time with is C. alba.  It got me thinking.  I don't think I have ever seen a large specimen for this species.  Do they exist?  Trying to figure out what I need to do to grow them.   If you are having good success with this palm in SoCal, please share.

[Tracy]

  On 4/21/2020 at 5:15 AM, joe_OC said:

New Cal palms are slow, but steady growers for me.  The only palm I really have a hard time with is C. alba.  It got me thinking.  I don't think I have ever seen a large specimen for this species.  Do they exist?  Trying to figure out what I need to do to grow them.   If you are having good success with this palm in SoCal, please share.

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I haven't tried one so can't add to your knowledge, but am interested to see yours and hear what your experience has been.  What type of position you tried in the garden, how long it's been in the ground and photos.  I was just looking at the Cyphosperm balinsae photo Matt just posted of his here in So Cal and am thinking maybe I should allow mine to get a little more light.  So perhaps others with young C. alba plantings can learn from your experience here even if no one has any large specimens.  Hopefully someone will have a big one that they can share experience in our climate but in the interim let's start small Joe.

[joe_OC]

  On 4/21/2020 at 1:16 PM, Tracy said:

I haven't tried one so can't add to your knowledge, but am interested to see yours and hear what your experience has been.  What type of position you tried in the garden, how long it's been in the ground and photos.  I was just looking at the Cyphosperm balinsae photo Matt just posted of his here in So Cal and am thinking maybe I should allow mine to get a little more light.  So perhaps others with young C. alba plantings can learn from your experience here even if no one has any large specimens.  Hopefully someone will have a big one that they can share experience in our climate but in the interim let's start small Joe.

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I am asking to see if anyone has been successful growing a small one to adulthood.  I lost my last one to fungal.  Rotted out the meristem and spear pulled.  Seems my winters are too cold and wet for them.  

[Matt in OC]

SUPER slow for me and I only have one left that my, ahem, apprentice over-pruned so I don't expect it to do anything anytime soon. 

[DoomsDave]

Hmm, interesting.

I've grown lots of them in pots at my place, and they've been a relatively easy grow for me as New Callians go. They definitely seem to appreciate summer heat a lot more than the rest of the New Callians do. Never tested one with a freeze.

But, I don't think I've ever planted one in the ground. Have to check and see, and if I haven't, well, time for some editing and replacing!

[Tracy]

  On 4/21/2020 at 3:38 PM, Matt in OC said:

SUPER slow for me and I only have one left that my, ahem, apprentice over-pruned so I don't expect it to do anything anytime soon. 

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Matt is yours in the ground or still in the pot?  How many did you start with... i.e. what's your batting average in baseball terms?

 

  On 4/21/2020 at 1:44 PM, joe_OC said:

I lost my last one to fungal.  Rotted out the meristem and spear pulled.  Seems my winters are too cold and wet for them.  

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Bummer, how long did it last just one winter?  I know I have had 2 above average rainfall winters and although on average neither was particularly cold, this had the late "cool" weather and one nasty night in March that resulted in some damage.  My bananas all survived but were exceptionally beat up after that cold night.  I have hooded orioles returning to the yard that would normally be creating nests in my bananas right now but they aren't because the green foliage isn't thick enough for them to hide a nest.  So perhaps if you started in the last two winters with your C alba it was just the wrong year to get it established through winter.   Get out of the penalty box and get back on the ice this spring,.... another sports analogy to try growing it again!

[Matt in OC]

@Tracy I can't remember if I had two or three in the ground. One I transplanted after I didn't like the spot and it croaked (definitely my fault). This other one has been in the ground for a few years and hasn't budged. The prune job probably hasn't helped. I don't notice any cold burn on it or anything so I'm not sure that the winters bother it. I think it's just super slow.

[joe_OC]

  On 4/21/2020 at 4:23 PM, Matt in OC said:

@Tracy I can't remember if I had two or three in the ground. One I transplanted after I didn't like the spot and it croaked (definitely my fault). This other one has been in the ground for a few years and hasn't budged. The prune job probably hasn't helped. I don't notice any cold burn on it or anything so I'm not sure that the winters bother it. I think it's just super slow.

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Definitely got cold damage on mine.  Other NC palms in the same area had no issues.

Edited April 21, 2020 by joe_OC

[TomJ]

Mine are FAR from trunking, but this is my experience. Bought this one as an FB 1gl some time ago.

In 2nd picture you can see it is starting to develop that teddy bear like fuzz.

In the 3rd picture you can see it started growing sideways reaching for sun.

Last Fall I dug up a huge clump Rhapis excelsa that was completely shading it out.

Hopefully it will straighten out a bit... we'll see.

Now it is in filtered sun, tons of water in 100% clay. Grows slow and steady.

[TomJ]

It was ironic when you posted this because this is my second one.

Four days ago I dug it up and moved it to a more exposed location.

I got it a year after the 1st one but as an FB 3gl.

It was roughly the same size as the 1st one when planted out.

The spear was marked 4 days ago so it is moving.

The leaf that was on the right was trimmed in previous location because it was blocking sprinkler.

Edited April 21, 2020 by TomJ
stupidity

[joe_OC]

  On 4/21/2020 at 4:00 PM, Tracy said:

Matt is yours in the ground or still in the pot?  How many did you start with... i.e. what's your batting average in baseball terms?

 

Bummer, how long did it last just one winter?  I know I have had 2 above average rainfall winters and although on average neither was particularly cold, this had the late "cool" weather and one nasty night in March that resulted in some damage.  My bananas all survived but were exceptionally beat up after that cold night.  I have hooded orioles returning to the yard that would normally be creating nests in my bananas right now but they aren't because the green foliage isn't thick enough for them to hide a nest.  So perhaps if you started in the last two winters with your C alba it was just the wrong year to get it established through winter.   Get out of the penalty box and get back on the ice this spring,.... another sports analogy to try growing it again!

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Tracy - That’s why I’m asking.  Don’t want to kill another one.  As palms go, there isn’t much information (even on PT) about this palm from a cultivation point of view.  

[LJG]

I have never seen one and doubt there is. The biggest I have seen are in Jeff brusseau's yard and still far from trunking. Bill Sanford has a nice one growing actually pretty quick. Like you Joe, I have killed them. I do have one nice one finally getting established in the ground. So there is hope.

 

[tim_brissy_13]

There are huge old trunking and flowering specimens in Sydney at the botanic gardens. Obviously they’re on the opposite side of the globe but latitude is similar and Sydney’s winters are at least as cool and wet from my understanding (average max of about 17C/63F). Every time I’ve seen them they have been thriving and even setting seed so I don’t think those winter temps are an issue. They likely would’ve never seen frost though. 

[Tyrone]

  On 4/22/2020 at 12:38 AM, tim_brissy_13 said:

There are huge old trunking and flowering specimens in Sydney at the botanic gardens. Obviously they’re on the opposite side of the globe but latitude is similar and Sydney’s winters are at least as cool and wet from my understanding (average max of about 17C/63F). Every time I’ve seen them they have been thriving and even setting seed so I don’t think those winter temps are an issue. They likely would’ve never seen frost though. 

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That's a nice little microclimate the Sydney BG gets there right on Sydney Harbour and a stones throw from the ocean. On a cold morning that might see the western suburbs drop to freezing or below, the Sydney BG may drop to 5 or 6C. They seem to be able to grow New Caledonian stuff beautifully in there.

I had one Cyphophoenix alba that I got when they were still called Veillonia alba in a pot growing fine under pine trees at my place until a couple of winters back. Not sure why it croaked except maybe the soil had broken down a bit and didn't drain great. I've since germinated a few and they were transplanted from a community pot into individual pots during summer and put into my new shade house (much better than sitting under pine trees) and so far I haven't lost any from the potting up experience. Unlike my Burretiokentia veillardiis which objected seriously to root disturbance. I lost a few to potting into individual pots. I'm moving away from community pots now for hard to grow and obtain stuff. It's too nerve racking trying to detangle roots with the care of a brain surgeon and still watch them die.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I've had two in the ground in mostly shade up here in the Bay Area for three years and they are really slow but otherwise decent looking plants. One leaf per year, maybe two at best. Before these two in the shade, I had two in half day sun and they both died simultaneously in summer heat. Green one day, crispy dead the next even with wet soil. They can't take the sun in low humidity heat at all. 

[Hilo Jason]

I wonder if there might be one of these in Greg Haman’s garden?  He probably would have acquired it under the Veillonia name.  

I was never successful with these in Fallbrook. I tried 2 or 3 times. 

Even here on the Big Island these are not fast palms. I have 2 planted here, one in sun and one in shade. Both are pretty slow.