Coconut Palms for seawall

[Orly]

I want to plant a row of coconut palms along my seawall in the near future.  My seawall/yard look very much like the photo below which represents the look I'm aiming to acheive.   The home is in Port Charlotte, FL as is the home in the photo.  What type of coconut palm would you recommend and maybe a source in the area?  I have about 200ft of seawall so I'd need about 10 palms or so at 20ft spacing.  The canal water is brackish/salt.

 

Thx

[awkonradi]

Hi Orly, I can't help you, but I would love to see pictures of your property, now without the coconuts, and again later after you put them in.

[Orly]

2 hours ago, awkonradi said:

Hi Orly, I can't help you, but I would love to see pictures of your property, now without the coconuts, and again later after you put them in.

I just bought the place and in the middle of painting and some yard work. No recent pics but I have this older real estate drone pic.  

 

 

[awkonradi]

Fantastic!  I think a perimeter of coconuts will look great!

[kinzyjr]

There is a trade-off as far as traits go. 

You could get Jamaican Tall or Panama Tall and they would give you the look you desire more quickly.  The Jamaican Tall has the nicest crown from my point of view.  I get mine from Calusa Palms Nursery (http://www.calusapalmsnursery.com/contact.html) in Naples.  The Red Spicata is catching on and gives you another variety to consider.  A hybrid with this variety is also available at Calusa.

Getting the standard Green Malayan Dwarf gives you a more upright and umbrella shaped canopy, but it is slower growing.  Golden Malayan Dwarf seems to be a little less cold hardy, but gives you some color when the coconuts are ripening.  Both Malayan Dwarf varieties eventually get tall since they are not true dwarfs.  They can typically be found in big box stores and identified by the color of the petioles. 

Given that you want taller coconut palms for the "shoreline" effect, you'll probably not want a Fiji Dwarf since they stay pretty short and stout. 

When you have a hurricane or other storm with strong winds coming, coconuts = cannon balls if you don't trim the nuts off the tree.  Make sure to put up signs warning of falling coconuts to make the homeowner's insurance slightly happier.

[jimmyt]

....put the lime in the coconut and call me in the morning!  

[Orly]

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

There is a trade-off as far as traits go. 

You could get Jamaican Tall or Panama Tall and they would give you the look you desire more quickly.  The Jamaican Tall has the nicest crown from my point of view.  I get mine from Calusa Palms Nursery (http://www.calusapalmsnursery.com/contact.html) in Naples.  The Red Spicata is catching on and gives you another variety to consider.  A hybrid with this variety is also available at Calusa.

Getting the standard Green Malayan Dwarf gives you a more upright and umbrella shaped canopy, but it is slower growing.  Golden Malayan Dwarf seems to be a little less cold hardy, but gives you some color when the coconuts are ripening.  Both Malayan Dwarf varieties eventually get tall since they are not true dwarfs.  They can typically be found in big box stores and identified by the color of the petioles. 

Given that you want taller coconut palms for the "shoreline" effect, you'll probably not want a Fiji Dwarf since they stay pretty short and stout. 

When you have a hurricane or other storm with strong winds coming, coconuts = cannon balls if you don't trim the nuts off the tree.  Make sure to put up signs warning of falling coconuts to make the homeowner's insurance slightly happier.

Thanks for that reply.  I never considered the Red Spicata, interesting choice, is it a dwarf or fast grower?  As far as LY resistance, how do they all fair?

I was thinking Green Malayan but are they all of the dwarf variety?  Slower growing is not what I want depending on how slow it is.  They do have nice color as does the Red Spicata.

Fiji Dwarfs, which I have in my primary residence are, as you said, stout and not the look I want on the seawall. 

 

 

 

Thx

Edited March 10, 2020 by Orly

[GottmitAlex]

17 minutes ago, Orly said:

Thanks for that reply.  I never considered the Red Spicata, interesting choice, is it a dwarf or fast grower?  As far as LY resistance, how do they all fair?

I was thinking Green Malayan but are they all of the dwarf variety?  Slower growing is not what I want depending on how slow it is.  They do have nice color as does the Red Spicata.

Fiji Dwarfs, which I have in my primary residence are, as you said, stout and not the look I want on the seawall. 

 

 

 

Thx

Red spciata dwarf cocos are true dwarfs and are resistant to LY.  But as Fiji dwarfs, they don't have the look which you seek.

https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Cocos_nucifera_var._'Spicata_dwarf'

 

[Zeeth]

Panama tall or Jamaican tall would be good, but the Panama tall may be hard to source right now, as the Romney Nursery is no longer operational, and Jamaican tall still has the LY issue (though this isn't as much of a concern as it was in the 70's). Hawaiian tall works about as well as the Panama tall (same LY resistance), and is maybe a little more easily available. Gaia Yoga Nursery is the best source for those at the moment, but you'll have to start from a seedling, which ends up working out well if you're okay with that, as they ultimately grow faster and be easier to establish. 

 

If I had the space that you're looking at, I wouldn't do Malayan or Fiji dwarf (or even red spicata dwarf to be honest), as the sea wall gives you the perfect opportunity for a tall type coconut to gracefully lean out over the water and give you that ultra-tropical look. If I were in your shoes, I'd go with the Hawaiian tall. Another plus side of the tall types is that they'll probably end up leaning far enough into the canal that they'll drop coconuts and dead leaves into the water, so they'll be easier to maintain (and they'll require less fertilizer than a Malayan or Red Spicata). 

[Orly]

Just now, GottmitAlex said:

Red spciata dwarf cocos are true dwarfs and are resistant to LY.  But as Fiji dwarfs, they don't have the look which you seek.

https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Cocos_nucifera_var._'Spicata_dwarf'

 

OK, so along with Fiji they are out.  thx

[Orly]

5 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

Panama tall or Jamaican tall would be good, but the Panama tall may be hard to source right now, as the Romney Nursery is no longer operational, and Jamaican tall still has the LY issue (though this isn't as much of a concern as it was in the 70's). Hawaiian tall works about as well as the Panama tall, and is maybe a little more easily available. Gaia Yoga Nursery is the best source for those at the moment, but you'll have to start from a seedling, which ends up working out well if you're okay with that, as they ultimately grow faster and be easier to establish. 

 

If I had the space that you're looking at, I wouldn't do Malayan or Fiji dwarf (or even red spicata dwarf to be honest), as the sea wall gives you the perfect opportunity for a tall type coconut to gracefully lean out over the water and give you that ultra-tropical look. If I were in your shoes, I'd go with the Hawaiian tall. Another plus side of the tall types is that they'll probably end up leaning far enough into the canal that they'll drop coconuts and dead leaves into the water, so they'll be easier to maintain (and they'll require less fertilizer than a Malayan or Red Spicata). 

Great info.  Your description of the talls leaning over the water sound perfect.  I obtained my Fiji's from Gaia a few years ago.  One of them happens to be twice as tall as the other two after 3 yrs of growth.  It was a bit of a hassle getting those nuts from Hawaii and honestly I don't want to start from seedlings again.  The LY being less of an issue today is a relief too.   Jamaican talls may be the best choice.

Thx

Edited March 10, 2020 by Orly

[Zeeth]

2 minutes ago, Orly said:

Great info.  Your description of the talls leaning over the water sound perfect.  I obtained my Fiji's from Gaia a few years ago.  One of them happens to be twice as tall as the other two after 3 yrs of growth.  It was a bit of a hassle getting those nuts from Hawaii and honestly I don't want to start from seedlings again.  The LY being less of an issue today is a relief too.   Jamaican talls may be the best choice.

Thx

I'd say definitely go with the Jamaican tall in that case! 

[Orly]

11 hours ago, Zeeth said:

 Gaia Yoga Nursery is the best source for those at the moment, but you'll have to start from a seedling, which ends up working out well if you're okay with that, as they ultimately grow faster and be easier to establish.  If I were in your shoes, I'd go with the Hawaiian tall.

I figured I'd take a look at Gaia Nursey website.  The Hawaiian talls are much cheaper than expected.  $3.50 for the common talls and $10 for the Premier talls.  Far less than the Fiji types.  I wonder what the shipping costs are for 10.  It's a little tempting but I'll probably go with the Jamaicans since they are locally available. 

If I recall a few years ago I paid nearly $50 for each Fiji shipped and 3 of the 4 seedlings survived.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Orly

[Zeeth]

53 minutes ago, Orly said:

I figured I'd take a look at Gaia Nursey website.  The Hawaiian talls are much cheaper than expected.  $3.50 for the common talls and $10 for the Premier talls.  Far less than the Fiji types.  I wonder what the shipping costs are for 10.  It's a little tempting but I'll probably go with the Jamaicans since they are locally available. 

If I recall a few years ago I paid nearly $50 for each Fiji shipped and 3 of the 4 seedlings survived.

Yeah you'd be fine going with the common talls since they'll be more for the aesthetic than the coconut water and they're so much cheaper. Not sure what shipping costs would be for 10, but the coconuts are smaller than the Fiji types they sell so I'm not sure if it'd be a 1:1 comparison on shipping costs.

Hawaiian talls can have a variable appearance, as some have the more rounded crown you see in the Jamaican tall and some have the more umbrella shape you see in the Panama tall, and the petiole color varies from green to orange, so the grouping may be a bit more interesting since they don't all look the same, but the uniformity of the Jamaican tall may be nice too. You could also go with a mix of the two varieties as well. 

[Orly]

I guess it comes down to what I'm willing to put up with.  The Hawaiian Talls are probably the best choice while the Jamaicans are the easiest and likely cheapest.  I'll have to decide.

When my Fiji's finally produce nuts, I'd like to sprout one and plant at this property to have one on hand there.  I should have space for one along with some fruit trees I'd like to grow.  They are said to be great water coconuts which I enjoy.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Orly

[Orly]

40 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

Yeah you'd be fine going with the common talls since they'll be more for the aesthetic than the coconut water and they're so much cheaper. Not sure what shipping costs would be for 10, but the coconuts are smaller than the Fiji types they sell so I'm not sure if it'd be a 1:1 comparison on shipping costs.

Hawaiian talls can have a variable appearance, as some have the more rounded crown you see in the Jamaican tall and some have the more umbrella shape you see in the Panama tall, and the petiole color varies from green to orange, so the grouping may be a bit more interesting since they don't all look the same, but the uniformity of the Jamaican tall may be nice too. You could also go with a mix of the two varieties as well. 

• I guess it comes down to what I'm willing to put up with.  The Hawaiian Talls are probably the best choice while the Jamaicans are the easiest and likely cheapest.  I'll have to decide.

When my Fiji's finally produce nuts, I'd like to sprout one and plant at this property to have one on hand there.  I should have space for one along with some fruit trees I'd like to grow.  They are said to be great water coconuts which I enjoy.

[Orly]

Got a reply from Gaia and they told me $200 - $300 in just shipping for 10 nuts plus the cost.  They really trying to sell me on the Premium Talls.    

[Orly]

Pricewise comparisons:

10 common Hawaiians shipped = 10 Jamaican talls 3gal local

10 premium Hawaiians  shipped = 10 Jamaican talls 7gal local

????

Edited March 11, 2020 by Orly

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, Orly said:

Got a reply from Gaia and they told me $200 - $300 in just shipping for 10 nuts plus the cost.  They really trying to sell me on the Premium Talls.    

This makes me yearn for land!!! 

 

 

[Orly]

21 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

This makes me yearn for land!!! 

 

 

I'm sure most of us here do.  That's the one thing there not making anymore these days. lol

 

[Mike Evans]

When you plant large palms along your seawall, you want to be sure you are not putting undue stress on the seawall itself.  Need to calculate how far back to plant, from the angle of repose starting where the seawall meets the bay bottom.   I see you have a lot of riprap out there for seawall protection, and a lot of investment sitting there.   Look at angle of repose for different materials below.  If you plant inside the angle of repose, there is additional stress on seawall.   Just to be safe, you should probably use 45 degrees.  Good luck with those coconuts, they will look good on that waterfront.

[mnorell]

One thing to keep in mind is the growth speed of the form you select. I really favor Panama (Pacific) Talls as they have a beautiful, huge crown, a good, stocky bole that gives them a beautiful, classic lean and much more stability than a Maypan, and they are rocketships from the first leaf out of the nut. If you can't find them, look in your neighborhood mom-and-pop nursery for unnamed coconuts that have a unique darkish caramel (not orange or yellow) color to the rachis. Chances are, you've got a Panama. Or look for seeds under an adult Panama. Jamaican Talls, on the other hand, have to be the slowest coconut I've grown from seed. My arborist tells me he has had the same experience in general in Key West and the Lower Keys. Eventually they pick up some speed but boy are they slow at first, and that's in the perfect coconut climate of the Keys. And listen to Keith Zimmerman when he says that seedlings will work well for you. I am also a proponent of starting with a sprouted seed (or a young potted plant, 3gal or so max). They seem to grow very quickly and have a lot of stability in hurricanes when they can get their fingers into the ground from the get-go. 

Also, if you have one Fiji that is racing along faster than the others, you can pretty much expect that you got a hybrid. Dave Romney told me that Fijis are extremely receptive to pollen from other forms and they always tightly controlled the pollination (hence they were always expensive). I'm sorry to hear Keith say that Carol Romney has closed the nursery. They were the end-all of knowledgeable, dependable coconut sources in SoFla. 

One personal anecdote about Fiji Dwarfs: I have one that I bought from Dave Romney in 2010 as I think a 3gal, planted it and it slowly plugged along. Then a Panama Tall near it grew to about 20-25 feet overall in about two and a half years (!), overshadowed it along with some Delonix trees, and the Fiji just kind of sat there in dry, dank shade...for about six years. After Irma swept across our island and tore all the dicot trees out of the ground and sheared the nearby Panama off at the roots, the Fiji was left, still trunkless and almost leafless but alive, saturated with saltwater. Lo and behold, in the two-and-a-half years since the storm, that Fiji Dwarf has taken off in full sun and for the first time in its life really increased markedly to have a huge crown, and looking healthier than it ever had. No wonder the Philippine government advertises salt as an excellent fertilizer for coconuts. I would never have believed it, but I have seen this result in other palms as well (primarily Acoellorrhaphe and also Copernicia baileyana).

[Orly]

40 minutes ago, mnorell said:

One thing to keep in mind is the growth speed of the form you select. I really favor Panama (Pacific) Talls as they have a beautiful, huge crown, a good, stocky bole that gives them a beautiful, classic lean and much more stability than a Maypan, and they are rocketships from the first leaf out of the nut. If you can't find them, look in your neighborhood mom-and-pop nursery for unnamed coconuts that have a unique darkish caramel (not orange or yellow) color to the rachis. Chances are, you've got a Panama. Or look for seeds under an adult Panama. Jamaican Talls, on the other hand, have to be the slowest coconut I've grown from seed. My arborist tells me he has had the same experience in general in Key West and the Lower Keys. Eventually they pick up some speed but boy are they slow at first, and that's in the perfect coconut climate of the Keys. And listen to Keith Zimmerman when he says that seedlings will work well for you. I am also a proponent of starting with a sprouted seed (or a young potted plant, 3gal or so max). They seem to grow very quickly and have a lot of stability in hurricanes when they can get their fingers into the ground from the get-go. 

Also, if you have one Fiji that is racing along faster than the others, you can pretty much expect that you got a hybrid. Dave Romney told me that Fijis are extremely receptive to pollen from other forms and they always tightly controlled the pollination (hence they were always expensive). I'm sorry to hear Keith say that Carol Romney has closed the nursery. They were the end-all of knowledgeable, dependable coconut sources in SoFla. 

One personal anecdote about Fiji Dwarfs: I have one that I bought from Dave Romney in 2010 as I think a 3gal, planted it and it slowly plugged along. Then a Panama Tall near it grew to about 20-25 feet overall in about two and a half years (!), overshadowed it along with some Delonix trees, and the Fiji just kind of sat there in dry, dank shade...for about six years. After Irma swept across our island and tore all the dicot trees out of the ground and sheared the nearby Panama off at the roots, the Fiji was left, still trunkless and almost leafless but alive, saturated with saltwater. Lo and behold, in the two-and-a-half years since the storm, that Fiji Dwarf has taken off in full sun and for the first time in its life really increased markedly to have a huge crown, and looking healthier than it ever had. No wonder the Philippine government advertises salt as an excellent fertilizer for coconuts. I would never have believed it, but I have seen this result in other palms as well (primarily Acoellorrhaphe and also Copernicia baileyana).

Regarding my Fiji that's out growing the others, I've suspected as well it might be a hybrid.  I'd heard the same info about them being susceptible to cross pollination.

Here is a photo of the taller one behind the shorter.  These have about 3 yrs of growth from seedling.

Speed of growth is important to me in this case.  Even though I'm not getting any younger, short palms will block some of my view of the canal so the faster they clear that point of height the better.  If Panama's truly are fast growers then prioritizing them as a choice becomes important.  I have no problems selecting the "right" coconut palm for this project given it does not become costly or too difficult/time consuming to locate.  Being in S. FL.  You would expect having the greatest variety of coconut palms on the continental US, that would be an easy task.  Unfortunately I don't have the skills to ID coconut palms very much.   I'd have to do some hunting to see if I could source some. 

So how do the Hawaiian Talls compare to Panama(Pacific) Talls?  Are they as a prolific of a grower?  Those can be obtained as seedlings at somewhat reasonable cost.

Here's a coconut palm across the street.  I can't tell what cultivar it is.

Lots of good information, thanks.

[Orly]

2 hours ago, Mike Evans said:

When you plant large palms along your seawall, you want to be sure you are not putting undue stress on the seawall itself.  Need to calculate how far back to plant, from the angle of repose starting where the seawall meets the bay bottom.   I see you have a lot of riprap out there for seawall protection, and a lot of investment sitting there.   Look at angle of repose for different materials below.  If you plant inside the angle of repose, there is additional stress on seawall.   Just to be safe, you should probably use 45 degrees.  Good luck with those coconuts, they will look good on that waterfront.

Okay, you've blindsided me with this info.  I don't know how angle of repose works so I'll have to look into it.  I estimate from the top cap of the seawall to the canal bottom is maybe 4ft.  I'll have to verify that this weekend.

There is a fair amount of riprap.  I was originally thinking about 6 ft (County code minimum I believe)  from the seawall and about 20ft apart.  

Edited March 11, 2020 by Orly

[GottmitAlex]

8 minutes ago, Orly said:

Regarding my Fiji that's out growing the others, I've suspected as well it might be a hybrid.  I'd heard the same info about them being susceptible to cross pollination.

Here is a photo of the taller one behind the shorter.  These have about 3 yrs of growth from seedling.

Speed of growth is important to me in this case.  Even though I'm not getting any younger, short palms will block some of my view of the canal so the faster they clear that point of height the better.  If Panama's truly are fast growers then prioritizing them as a choice becomes important.  I have no problems selecting the "right" coconut palm for this project given it does not become costly or too difficult/time consuming to locate.  Being in S. FL.  You would expect having the greatest variety of coconut palms on the continental US, that would be an easy task.  Unfortunately I don't have the skills to ID coconut palms very much.   I'd have to do some hunting to see if I could source some. 

So how do the Hawaiian Talls compare to Panama(Pacific) Talls?  Are they as a prolific of a grower?  Those can be obtained as seedlings at somewhat reasonable cost.

Here's a coconut palm across the street.  I can't tell what cultivar it is.

Lots of good information, thanks.

Because of how thin (I may be wrong) and how straight the trunk is, this very well may be an old green malayan. Although the full crown reminds me of a Atlantic/Jamaican tall. However the trunk does not. 

Love the full crown btw.

[Orly]

4 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Because of how thin (I may be wrong) and how straight the trunk is, this very well may be an old green malayan. Although the full crown reminds me of a Atlantic/Jamaican tall. However the trunk does not. 

Love the full crown btw.

Yeah, It's a nice looking palm and probably been around for a while.

Do you have any thoughts on the Hawaiian Tall?

Edited March 11, 2020 by Orly

[Zeeth]

1 minute ago, Orly said:

So how do the Hawaiian Talls compare to Panama(Pacific) Talls?  Are they as a prolific of a grower?  Those can be obtained as seedlings at somewhat reasonable cost.

The Hawaiian tall and Pacific tall both fall under the "Niu vai" group of coconuts, which are faster growing and more domesticated than the "Niu Kafa" group (which the Jamaican tall fits into). They're very similar to the Panama tall, but the petioles on some individuals can be more orange than the Panama tall (which can have the caramel petioles when young but usually end up being green as adults.

 Here are some of mine with ages:

Select tall from Gaia Yoga which I purchased in 2015:

Green petiole Hawaiian tall which I got from Garrin Fullington in 2010:

Here is my Panama tall that I got as a 7 gallon from Christian Faulkner in 2015. It was one of the ones bred by Dave Romney:

Your best bet for getting Panama talls will currently be from the stand growing in Fairchild in plots 156a and 157. I propagated some from that group to donate to the Gizella Kopsick Palm Arboretum in St. Pete (and they're currently doing pretty well over there). 

[mnorell]

Those Fijis of yours look very open and sparse compared to mine. Mine is so thick and squat it has a crown sort of reminiscent to me of a Ravenea rivularis. Tight, shuttle-cock shape with lots of leaves packed in. But very thick. The last coconut you show is hard for me to get an idea of, it has a beautiful, full crown but not really anything much of a bole. Both Panamas and Jamaicans usually have a very pronounced bole. But it doesn't mean they will always have them. Jamaicans can be identified by their huge full-circle crowns, great height with age, a thick bole, and nuts that have an elongated, three-cornered pinched point. The latter is a pretty good identifying factor. The nuts on a Panama look to me like round cannonballs up in the crown (though up close you will see they also have a smaller pinched point). Green Malays are oblate (a sort of "squashed" sphere). Maybe the best bet is to look for plants at the nursery with that caramel color. Once you've learned it you'll never forget it. I can't tell you the characteristics of a Hawaiian Tall. I lived in Hawai'i and have visited many times afterward but never have really paid much attention to its specific qualities. Ask Keith Zimmerman, he has really studied the various Cocos types and knows all of those details and can probably do a good job identifying it from your picture.

[Zeeth]

Your short Fiji looks right, but the taller one is probably hybridized. I don't have a recent pic of my Fiji since it's in a hard to photograph spot, but I'll post a pic of it 2 years ago. For what it's worth, I think there are two types of Fiji dwarf commonly available, the one present in Florida and the one present in Hawaii. The Hawaiian strain tends to be more dwarf type, hybridize less, and have larger coconuts (superior to the Florida strain overall in my opinion). I think that this difference may be attributable to a hybridization event at some point in the past of the Florida strain, which is why it tends to give off types more frequently. Here's mine (which is a Hawaiian strain that I bought from Bill Chang):

Your neighbor's tree looks like it could be a Malayan hybrid, but doesn't look right for Maypan. Maybe it's a Mayjam hybrid. 

[Orly]

10 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

The Hawaiian tall and Pacific tall both fall under the "Niu vai" group of coconuts, which are faster growing and more domesticated than the "Niu Kafa" group (which the Jamaican tall fits into). They're very similar to the Panama tall, but the petioles on some individuals can be more orange than the Panama tall (which can have the caramel petioles when young but usually end up being green as adults.

 Here are some of mine with ages:

Select tall from Gaia Yoga which I purchased in 2015:

Green petiole Hawaiian tall which I got from Garrin Fullington in 2010:

Here is my Panama tall that I got as a 7 gallon from Christian Faulkner in 2015. It was one of the ones bred by Dave Romney:

Your best bet for getting Panama talls will currently be from the stand growing in Fairchild in plots 156a and 157. I propagated some from that group to donate to the Gizella Kopsick Palm Arboretum in St. Pete (and they're currently doing pretty well over there). 

Those look really nice.  I especially like the lean of the first one.  Very fast growth rates too.

Local sourcing of Panama's is going to be difficult.  Short of a lucky find, I'm leaning towards  the Hawaiian Talls from Gaia.  We do like drinking and eating coconuts so the better selected seedlings might be my choice.

[Orly]

5 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

Your short Fiji looks right, but the taller one is probably hybridized. I don't have a recent pic of my Fiji since it's in a hard to photograph spot, but I'll post a pic of it 2 years ago. For what it's worth, I think there are two types of Fiji dwarf commonly available, the one present in Florida and the one present in Hawaii. The Hawaiian strain tends to be more dwarf type, hybridize less, and have larger coconuts (superior to the Florida strain overall in my opinion). I think that this difference may be attributable to a hybridization event at some point in the past of the Florida strain, which is why it tends to give off types more frequently. Here's mine (which is a Hawaiian strain that I bought from Bill Chang):

Your neighbor's tree looks like it could be a Malayan hybrid, but doesn't look right for Maypan. Maybe it's a Mayjam hybrid. 

Yeah that looks very similar to my two shorter Fijis.  I tend to remove the lower fronds because they interfere with the patio seating.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

Here's some of the tallest Malayan Dwarf coconuts I have seen.   These I believe are both pre 1989 and were very visible 2 streets away above 2 houses in front of them.   Taken on Manasota Key in Englewood. 

Closeup of the two. 

Heres The one in the first picture.   

Of course Jamaican talls are way more common at this height and taller.  I saw quite a few taller in Fort Myers, Naples and other areas. 

Heres some in Everglades City.   Notice the crown 

And an even bigger one in Pahokee.  Im 6ft 2 for scale. 

 

Ive always liked Jamaican crowns and trunks better anyways. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Mr.SamuraiSword
Posted early

[Orly]

14 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

 

Ive always liked Jamaican crowns and trunks better anyways. 

Yeah, I have to agree.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

1 hour ago, Orly said:

Yeah, I have to agree.

That one in particular is the tallest ive ever seen in Florida.  There was a few giants around pahokee but this was the biggest.  Some guy sent me old one from Naples that might be a little bigger or smaller.  Most tall coconuts in SF are LY surviving Jamaicans or a few old dwarfs. 

[Zeeth]

Testing some photo spheres I made. Click the picture a few times and it should give you an interactive photo sphere.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BzSKtX1wR4NWduFA8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/s2g4wCwF32UmkXVw5

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5PgGjhq466vhPLDZ9

[Cluster]

Hello Keith do you only have a Fiji, in the sphere photos looked like you had one near the other? 

 

Also don't dwarfs have 360 crowns too? I mean this one on Madeira Island is always trimmed but once upon a time they left it untrimmed a bit longer and you can notice it will easily get a skirt, I remember it had already 2 fronds pointing downwards:

 

Then again I have no clue what variety this is, no one knows, but the trunk seems way thinner than the bole Malayans we see in this thread, I prefer the Madeira Crown, though. And as far as I know dwarfs still have the best water, even hybrids are not as good I believe. Curiously I have indeed heard about Fiji Dwarfs having a great water too, even though they are closer genetically to Tall traits than dwarfs.

 

PS: I still have no clue how to tell an Hawaii tall from a Panama and to be honest even Jamaican talls (cause sometimes pacific talls also have rounded crown), but at least these last ones have totally different fruit so it is easy when they are fruiting.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Cluster