Coconut Palm in Titusville Home Depot

[NickJames]

They had multiple coconut palms of this size or even larger at Home Depot in Titusville at I-95 tonight (so not oceanfront or waterfront).

Do these appear to be full coconut palms and can I assume they would not survive at my Daytona Beach home? I’m aware of the big box stores selling specimens that won’t survive. 
 

thanks!

[kinzyjr]

@NickJames

Definitely coconut palms, likely Green Malayan Dwarf judging by the appearance.  About 6 months ago, I was at a Home Depot here and they had about a dozen of these on pallets here.  Three of them were tagged as sold already and were staged on a pallet for the buyer to come pick them up.  I'd consider Coconuts and Adonidia merrillii marginal here, but you do get some brave (or foolish) gardeners that will plant their entire property full of coconuts.  A recent planting of this nature can be viewed here: Coconut Planting in Bartow, FL - Jan. 2019

That said, there is a Jan. 2010 surviving coconut in Daytona.  It took another whack in Jan. 2018 but is still alive to my knowledge:

2010 Survivor Coconut - Daytona, FL

2010 Survivor Coconut - Daytona, FL - When Healthy

We do have a handful of at least 2010-2011 surviving Adonidia merrillii in town, and a few healthy fruiting ones that survived 2018's advective freeze.

These are still there as I saw them with an aborted flower stalk today (02/15/2020): Adonidia merrillii recovering from the 2010-2011 winter

Fruiting, but can only be verified to 2016: Fruiting Adonidia merrillii - Lake Hollingsworth, Lakeland, FL

If you're feeling adventurous or don't mind protecting a palm once in a while over the winter, they aren't much in the way of maintenance.  Since protection eventually becomes an issue with Talls and Malayans (which are not true dwarfs), you may want to consider a Fiji Dwarf since they stay a lot smaller and don't appear to be extremely cold tender from @Zeeth's experiments.  A shorter palm is easier to trim and protect.

[NickJames]

15 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@NickJames

Definitely coconut palms, likely Green Malayan Dwarf judging by the appearance.  About 6 months ago, I was at a Home Depot here and they had about a dozen of these on pallets here.  Three of them were tagged as sold already and were staged on a pallet for the buyer to come pick them up.  I'd consider Coconuts and Adonidia merrillii marginal here, but you do get some brave (or foolish) gardeners that will plant their entire property full of coconuts.  A recent planting of this nature can be viewed here: Coconut Planting in Bartow, FL - Jan. 2019

That said, there is a Jan. 2010 surviving coconut in Daytona.  It took another whack in Jan. 2018 but is still alive to my knowledge:

2010 Survivor Coconut - Daytona, FL

2010 Survivor Coconut - Daytona, FL - When Healthy

We do have a handful of at least 2010-2011 surviving Adonidia merrillii in town, and a few healthy fruiting ones that survived 2018's advective freeze.

These are still there as I saw them with an aborted flower stalk today (02/15/2020): Adonidia merrillii recovering from the 2010-2011 winter

Fruiting, but can only be verified to 2016: Fruiting Adonidia merrillii - Lake Hollingsworth, Lakeland, FL

If you're feeling adventurous or don't mind protecting a palm once in a while over the winter, they aren't much in the way of maintenance.  Since protection eventually becomes an issue with Talls and Malayans (which are not true dwarfs), you may want to consider a Fiji Dwarf since they stay a lot smaller and don't appear to be extremely cold tender from @Zeeth's experiments.  A shorter palm is easier to trim and protect.

Wow, such great info. The tag said “cold hardiness: 30 degrees” which is the same as I believe they mark on queen palms and a few others I know to be far more tolerant than a coconut palm. 
 

What is the true cold hardiness for the photographer specimen? I have my foxtail and a triangle palm which I know aren’t terribly tolerant. 
 

I briefly touched 35 degrees in January at my weather station about 7 feet off the ground 50 feet away from my house. I imagine my neighborhood will trend slightly warmer as more homes are built. I’m currently kind of alone down here. (Mosaic, off LPGA Blvd)

[kinzyjr]

@NickJames

The tag is fairly accurate from .  I prefer to think of hardiness more in terms of probability than a single number.  This thread contains a spreadsheet I have been compiling to consolidate the cold hardiness data on the site into a single document: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61358-0000-cold-hardiness-observation-master-data/

As an example of my philosophy, some coconuts have survived into the 20's, there are a few reports of specimens surviving 19F, but there are also observations of coconuts dying in the low or even mid-30s in spots.  The 30F benchmark is probably accurate in the majority of cases.  Foxtails are another mixed bag.  We have specimens that handle mid-20s with few or no issues, we have others that take damage as soon as there is any amount of time below freezing. 

[kurt decker]

The big box stores are the ultimate zone pushers. They sell thousands of trees and some of them will survive and eventually seed. There are tons of palms growing in Florida right now in places that I would never think they would live but somehow they do. I love what the big box stores are doing. Yes they're killing thousands of palms, but they're speeding up the genetic sorting of the ones that are just a little bit tougher.

Edited February 16, 2020 by kurt decker

[NickJames]

8 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@NickJames

The tag is fairly accurate from .  I prefer to think of hardiness more in terms of probability than a single number.  This thread contains a spreadsheet I have been compiling to consolidate the cold hardiness data on the site into a single document: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61358-0000-cold-hardiness-observation-master-data/

As an example of my philosophy, some coconuts have survived into the 20's, there are a few reports of specimens surviving 19F, but there are also observations of coconuts dying in the low or even mid-30s in spots.  The 30F benchmark is probably accurate in the majority of cases.  Foxtails are another mixed bag.  We have specimens that handle mid-20s with few or no issues, we have others that take damage as soon as there is any amount of time below freezing. 

Thank you! I understand what you mean. I should’ve looked at the price too to see if it’s worth it. Do coconut palms grow fast? I have very little real life observational knowledge outside of trips to places where they thrive. I grew up in Jacksonville. 

[GottmitAlex]

55 minutes ago, NickJames said:

Thank you! I understand what you mean. I should’ve looked at the price too to see if it’s worth it. Do coconut palms grow fast? I have very little real life observational knowledge outside of trips to places where they thrive. I grew up in Jacksonville. 

They're one of the fastest growing palms in the world.

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

Thank you! I understand what you mean. I should’ve looked at the price too to see if it’s worth it. Do coconut palms grow fast? I have very little real life observational knowledge outside of trips to places where they thrive. I grew up in Jacksonville. 

 

43 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

They're one of the fastest growing palms in the world. 

To illustrate in concrete terms what Alex is saying, here are a few of my coconuts when I first got them on 04/25/2017:

Here is one of the Jamaican Talls in the previous photo as of 10/30/2019:

 

[NickJames]

10 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

 

To illustrate in concrete terms what Alex is saying, here are a few of my coconuts when I first got them on 04/25/2017:

Here is one of the Jamaican Talls in the previous photo as of 10/30/2019:

 

Wow, amazing, thank you both. I’m used to seeing incredible growth on queen palms and Washingtonia robusta. 

If the price is right, I may try to find a spot for a coconut palm. I totally forgot to look at price tonight, I just looked at the hang tag!

I am also looking to finally do My big backyard design so if anyone knows any good landscape design places (pavers, lighting, fire pit, landscaping, etc) in my Daytona Beach area. 
 

Can I also assume a larger/older coconut palm specimen will be more cold-tolerant? Some of the specimens tonight at Home Depot were the tallest tree in the garden center. 

[kinzyjr]

@NickJames When I looked at the tags a few months ago, the price was in the $150 range for one of the large pots like you had in your pictures.  The larger ones tend to be more cold tolerant.  In some circles, the theory is that the Jamaican Talls and Panama Talls are #1 and #2 for cold tolerance.  I think the International Drive coconut in Orlando is a tall of some kind.

If you want a Jamaican Tall (or a Panama Tall), you can get them from Calusa Palms Nursery at one of the sales they plan on attending.  Just be sure to email the owner and request what you want so they know to put it on the trailer.  Their information is here: http://www.calusapalmsnursery.com/

If you get a Malayan Dwarf at Home Depot, make sure to get the Green variety.  The golden ones tend to be a little more tender from my experience.  The color of the petioles is usually a good indicator since the big box stores typically carry Malayan Dwarf varieties.

Fiji Dwarf typically have to be ordered.  You could also contact Fairchild if you don't mind driving down to get one.  Be sure to tip them well for their efforts.

Whatever you decide to get, you'll maximize your success by doing the following:

• If you have a southeast facing alcove, that's a good spot.  Protected from the north and northwest wind and the eave provides some level of frost protection.
• Slightly elevate the planting area to allow the coldest air to drain away from the base of the trunk.  If you can gently elevate the planting a foot and taper it gently, it will help.
• Use a very dark colored mulch to maximize the amount of heat it absorbs.  Stone works better than wood for this purpose, but it can get expensive.
• If you use C-9 Christmas lights, make sure to keep the bulb away from the foliage and the trunk so you don't get burn damage.
• Have some lengths of rope and some old blankets ready to wrap the bud in the event of abnormal cold.
• If the palm dies of something other than fusarium or ganoderma, plant another one.

Since you are from Jacksonville and into landscaping, you might have heard of Earthworks Jax: Earthworks Jax YouTube

They have some nice videos and professional landscapers.  The Palm and Cycads expert, David Casella, is a great northern and north-central Florida resource.

[NickJames]

4 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

I would recommend that you not get overly excited about buying these. I have made that mistake in the past and have ended up spending more money on bigger plants that I thought would have a head start on smaller ones. My experience has been that I end up with better overall plants when I start with smaller ones. Not to mention the difficulty in wrestling a large palm. The immediate impact is there but you will probably be able to find the same species in a 3-5 gallon for about $20-30. The ones in your picture look like a 15 gallon which will probably be $150-200. A few years ago you could have bought them for $99. Prices have definitely come up with the economy. I’m not sure if they still offer the 1 year warranty but that was a good thing for me in the past. I bought 2 balled and burlapped coconuts several years ago and 1 died very soon after. It was too severely root pruned and couldn’t handle it. I brought it back for a full refund.

Thanks! Yes, they do offer a 1 year warranty on all perennials and trees. Both Lowe’s and Home Depot do. Home Depot will pretty much take back anything. 

[Merlyn]

12 hours ago, kurt decker said:

The big box stores are the ultimate zone pushers. They sell thousands of trees and some of them will survive and eventually seed. There are tons of palms growing in Florida right now in places that I would never think they would live but somehow they do. I love what the big box stores are doing. Yes they're killing thousands of palms, but they're speeding up the genetic sorting of the ones that are just a little bit tougher.

Now that there is funny!  And true!  If 95% of the "zone pushed" palms end up dying, that still means there's quite a few hardier ones around for palm enthusiasts to collect seeds.

[NickJames]

So kind of on this topic - what is the best big box garden center in Central Florida? The Home Depot near my childhood home in Jacksonville For example always ordered random palm specimens that other Home Depots did not. 

[NickJames]

10 minutes ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Talk to the garden center manager of your favorite or local store. They can special order a lot of stuff that is not generally stocked. At least they used to be able to. That is how I got several things.

Ok thanks. Had extremely bad experience with Ormond Lowe’s - they sold the foxtail palm I paid for in advance out from under me. It had my name literally everywhere on it. I’ll talk to Port O or New Smyrna. 

[Oviedo_z10b_lol]

If you don’t buy them, I’ll drive over and get some. I’m guessing the price is pretty reasonable (big box stores usually are). So think of it in terms of the time value of money: if you get 3-7+ years of enjoyment out of it before we have our next big cold snap, that’s pretty solid for maybe $70. Same goes for the ubiquitous A. Merilli the BBS loooooove to carry. That’s my mindset any way! 
 

now get one of those in the ground!!!

[NickJames]

3 hours ago, Oviedo_z10b_lol said:

If you don’t buy them, I’ll drive over and get some. I’m guessing the price is pretty reasonable (big box stores usually are). So think of it in terms of the time value of money: if you get 3-7+ years of enjoyment out of it before we have our next big cold snap, that’s pretty solid for maybe $70. Same goes for the ubiquitous A. Merilli the BBS loooooove to carry. That’s my mindset any way! 
 

now get one of those in the ground!!!

I hope they’re there tomorrow! Fingers crossed. 

[NickJames]

Thoughts of one of these in a pot - bad idea?

[GottmitAlex]

4 minutes ago, NickJames said:

Thoughts of one of these in a pot - bad idea?

You mean, keeping them in pots?

Bad idea. 

[NickJames]

Here’s my proposed location. It does face southeast. Would be completed blocked from a north or northwest wind and would receive radiational heat from the home. I think I mentioned in another thread that my lot grade is extreme - the home sits about 15 feet above the perimeter of the lot. This hopefully means most of the cold air flows downhill and settles at the street or at the pond.

[NickJames]

1 minute ago, GottmitAlex said:

You mean, keeping them in pots?

Bad idea. 

Yes, thanks. Great firm answer! 

[GottmitAlex]

My suggestion: the sooner the better. 

If you begin in March/April the root system will not fully develop by December to the extent of giving the palm the "cold hardiness" required.

Even if planted in February

Happens too often here in Commiefornia. 

Large Coco transplants do not survive a winter. Best to get a seedling and protect it for 3-4 years in order for it to develop a staunch root system and can be able to defend itself come winter.

This is just my humble opinion.

 

 

[NickJames]

2 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

My suggestion: the sooner the better. 

If you begin in March/April the root system will not fully develop by December to the extent of giving the palm the "cold hardiness" required.

Even if planted in February

Happens too often here in Commiefornia. 

Large Coco transplants do not survive a winter. Best to get a seedling and protect it for 3-4 years in order for it to develop a staunch root system and can be able to defend itself come winter.

This is just my humble opinion.

 

 

Thank you!

I saw some tiny $20 ones in Lake Mary, FL Home Depot today but they looked like death. 

[Reeverse]

I think if you can protect it you will get a few seasons out of it. West of 95 they are almost treated as annuals. 

[sandgroper]

11 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Best to get a seedling and protect it for 3-4 years in order for it to develop a staunch root system and can be able to defend itself come winter.

This is just my humble opinion.

 

 

I completely agree with Alex here, I've played around with these things for over 25 years in my climate and I've had by far the best success over the past 8 years by doing exactly this, plant them young and protect them until they're too big to protect any longer. At least this way they've had a chance to develop a decent root system.

[NickJames]

Does anyone know if there’s a coconut palm in the backyard of one of the Bayberry homes off LPGA Blvd? I could’ve sworn I saw one on my way home today.

[Jimbean]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:07 PM, NickJames said:

They had multiple coconut palms of this size or even larger at Home Depot in Titusville at I-95 tonight (so not oceanfront or waterfront).

Do these appear to be full coconut palms and can I assume they would not survive at my Daytona Beach home? I’m aware of the big box stores selling specimens that won’t survive. 
 

thanks!

Go for it if you want to!  Historically they have not survived long term in Titusville, much less Daytona Beach.  There was a 50% kill rate from the December 2010 winter in Merritt Island, Melbourne and Palm Bay.  There were few notable Jamaican talls that survived in Titusville and Port St. John from the early 1990's until 2010, but those Malayan dwarfs are less cold hardy.

[Reeverse]

20 hours ago, NickJames said:

Does anyone know if there’s a coconut palm in the backyard of one of the Bayberry homes off LPGA Blvd? I could’ve sworn I saw one on my way home today.

If it was planted after winter 2018 there probably are. There are only 2 coconuts that have survived for more than 10 years and both are on the beachside. IMO dont waste your time with a coconut out there. You will get a good couple years maybe but they do not like our cool periods. Try a Beccariophoenix alfredii they live long term here and look just as good. 

[NickJames]

Today in Daytona Beach Shores lol

[pj_orlando_z9b]

On 2/15/2020 at 10:34 PM, NickJames said:

Do coconut palms grow fast?

Just a bit when given TLC and fertilized well. 2015 vs 2020.  This includes a major setback in 2018. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by pj_orlando_z9b

[NickJames]

8 hours ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Just a bit when given TLC and fertilized well. 2015 vs 2020.  This includes a major setback in 2018. 

My God, that’s beautiful. On what side of Orlando are you? Microclimate?

[Reeverse]

20 hours ago, NickJames said:

Today in Daytona Beach Shores lol

I'll get a picture of the other one at the Tropical manor inn about 2 miles north. It is more protected and doing better. This one took a hit from the Jan 2018 freeze but is looking ok 

[pj_orlando_z9b]

2 hours ago, NickJames said:

My God, that’s beautiful. On what side of Orlando are you? Microclimate?

South side of town in Belle Isle. We have the Conway Chain of Lakes that offer a nice microclimate especially in radiational cold events. Not so much advective. your climate is probably warmer overall than here or at least similar. 

[pj_orlando_z9b]

This year was the first for setting fruit.

[GottmitAlex]

17 hours ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Just a bit when given TLC and fertilized well. 2015 vs 2020.  This includes a major setback in 2018. 

Amazing! Look at the speed rate in which the small coco surpassed in size the much larger Adonidia.

Cocos are incredibly fast growing palms.

[PalmTreeDude]

17 hours ago, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Just a bit when given TLC and fertilized well. 2015 vs 2020.  This includes a major setback in 2018. 

What in the world! I remember when you were posting about it and it was so small! You know what your doing, that's for sure. Good job! 

Edited February 24, 2020 by PalmTreeDude

[NickJames]

Well. I did it. Lol. Some of you will kill me. Did the middle of the tier one - $109. I fully am aware it may not make it and that’s ok. I’ll do my best to keep it alive. I’ll find a place to put it that’s easy to take out as needed. 
 

the rest of my backyard transformation will be slightly hardier lol 

truck bed is five feet long for comparison. 

[Jeff985]

Congratulations. You just made a bunch of palm nuts very jealous. 

[NickJames]

And when I said kill me - I meant many of you advised me against it. I received so many messages and comments and appreciate them all. Ultimately it’s just a little experiment for me. Instead of a garden of annuals I’ll just play around with this!

 

now - HELP! How do I plant this to ensure longest possible survival before the next big freeze. My soil is horrible. What should I backfill the hole with? How high do I plant it? I probably won’t plant until after this weekend’s ~39 degree night. The container appeared bone dry so I watered it. It’s on my covered porch for now. 
 

[SEPalm]

That’s a really good price. I’m paying 133.00 for a 25 gallon at that height at wholesale. They don’t even have the girth of trunk that Palm has. Good buy for sure. I am south of you by the river and put in a nice 25foot coco and every winter I am afraid I’ll lose it. 
I would plant it in a well draining area and just mulch it well. By April 1st start fertilizing with the lesco palm fertilizer at homedepot and water it heavily all summer.

[NickJames]

It already fell over once! Ah! Not sure how it knocked over a very heavy Polywood chair it was wedged in between. Must get in ground ASAP!