Pritchardia pacifica or thurstonii?

[bubba]

This is the largest Pritchardia p or t that I have seen in this area. It is over 30 feet and it seems that even experts have difficulty determining which Fiji/Tonga palm this is. Can anyone hazard a guess?

[Darold Petty]

Looks like short spadices, and would thus be P. pacifica...

from Palmpedia, the entry for P. thurstoni,  

"This palm is hard for me to distinguish from Pritchardia pacifica, also from Fiji, as it has similarly large, flat, finely pleated stiff leaves of incredible beauty... supposedly used frequently as avenue plant in Hawaii (wouldn't know which are which, though). Also similarly tolerant of salt water. The primary differences, that have been pointed out to me, are 1) this palm's flowers extend far beyond the leaves and look like ornaments hanging down from the crowns... while flowers of P. pacifica are still nestled within the leaves... and 2) this palm is a bit smaller in leaf size, and a tad less 'perfect' in the size/shape of the leaf." (Geoff Stein)

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[NatureGirl]

Photos I took of P. thurstoni in the Keys years ago. 

[bubba]

Thank you for your insights. I am blown away by this Fiji/Tongan specimen. We have numerous at Ann Norton that suffer when it gets chilly (40 F).

At Jupiter Island, there are numerous stunted specimens 60-70 years old that get beyond normal care. This specimen is out of the ordinary for this area! Still trying to ID this as pacifica or thurstoni. Darold’s segue makes me lean towards pacifica, which would be cool as Tongan.

Please post any specimens you have, especially in the lower 48!

[Kailua_Krish]

It’s not Thurstonii based on your pics. These all have tight crowns and inflorescences that extend past the leaves. Looks like pacifica but could be one of the other South Pacific or P beccarina

[mnorell]

I concur completely with krishnaraoji88...P. thurstonii are easy to identify not only by their "fireworks" inflorescences, but from their very tight, much smaller (and stiffer) crown than P. pacifica. P. pacifica also has a lax quality due partly to its longer petioles and to the size and weight of its leaves. When young in the nursery (where they are often sold with reversed names or just with the name "Fiji Fan") they are much harder to tell apart, but you can i.d. them based on the presence in P. thurstonii of parallel scales on the backs of the leaves. Be aware that there is also a plant sold occasionally in Florida as P. vuylstekeana, which is reputedly cold-hardier than P. pacifica but has many of its general characteristics although its leaves seem to have less of a "wavy" quality (and somehow your photo reminds me of that palm). From the Tuamotus, and I believe Don Hodel explored the background of this and gave a different i.d. I also agree that you can't rule out some of the Hawai'i species based on your picture even though most are very rarely cultivated in Florida.

I usually let instinct be my guide, since I usually just know when I see P. pacifica...it's about the most graceful large fan palm on the planet. By the way, both of these species did beautifully at our place on Big Pine Key during Irma, where there was 4-5 feet of ocean over them for 12 hours or so. They were partially defoliated by the 160mph winds (including a lot of mesovorticity) but really didn't skip a beat replacing their crowns. Particularly P. thurstonii, I'd say, is very resilient to both wind and salt. P. pacifica, more to the salt but the wind tears up the crown a bit more in a cat 4-5 scenario. It's a pity they aren't more cold hardy as they are just excellent landscape subjects and they love limestone.

[bubba]

I have another picture of this specimen and have compared examples of P beccarina and P vuylstekeana:

[bubba]

P becarrina almost has a Washingtonia look with lower fronds developing into skirts and without the roundish nature of the fronds. My pictures of this specimen do not capture the roundish nature of the fronds when viewed.

P vuylstekeana appears to be a much shorter tree, not unlike thurstoni. The specimens on Palm Pedia have a different look all together.

I should mention to all with interest in palms that the Palm Pedia website is a treasure trove of incredible information together with great pictures of specimens that make identification a much easier process.

[Kailua_Krish]

Unfortunately Pritchardia are so variable in appearance I haven't found Palmpedia that useful here in Hawaii for Pritchardia (Hodels book is much better but requires being able to examine the flowers and fruits) but I will say Im sure yours isn't thurstonii. In that pic it almost looks like some of the really nice green specimens of P hillebrandii. Its gonna be a touch job IDing it because even many of the old specimens here are unidentified or mis identified.

[bubba]

I will try to monitor this specimen in accordance with Hodel to confirm what Pritchardia this is. It resides in an outstanding micro-climate and those very few Prithchardia's in this area are usually the Fiji/Tongan variety (usually stunted). I fully understand the difficulty in the identification process. That stated, the palms in this garden appear to have been meticulously picked for their edgy, zone pushing quality.

I appreciate everyone's imput and would greatly enjoy any other pictures of Fiji/Tongan Pritchardia's in the lower 48!

[Kailua_Krish]

It is an amazing palm! I think the pic on Palmpedia underestimates the beauty of P vuylstekeana. Out of all the South Pacific Pritchardias here that is my favorite (caveat is I haven't ever seen a mitiaroana). If it is more cold hardy it should be more widely planted!