Is Roystonea regia cold hardier than Foxtail or Dypsis leptocheilos

[Mohsen]

Hi all

I have a small  Roystonea regia which I want to plant where I lost my Foxtail or Dypsis leptocheilos last winter . 

my question is , is Is Roystonea regia cold hardier than Foxtail or Dypsis leptocheilos ? it will be in open area with almost all day in full sun.

[Pip]

I'd say yes, your more likely to have success with a Roystonea regia than foxtail. Not sure about Dypsis leptochelois I've not lost one of my young seedlings since moving a little further away from the ocean and a higher elevation., I do have them close to house and under the dappled shade of a eucalypt.

[Stevetoad]

I would say they are pretty close to the same. I had a regia that died from a cold snap of 26f. my foxtail and teddy were in better protected spots and lived. the foxtail did spot up as well as the teddy. I have a r. princeps that showed hardly any damage during that same event.

[RedRabbit]

Mature roystonea seem to be marginally hardier than foxtails. I’d guess they’re a little hardier than d leptochellos too... Royals get much more cold tolerant as they age. They become massive palms when they’re older so I think their size gives them some protection.

[Silas_Sancona]

Florida aside, would give the advantage to Roystonea..  While not common, there are at least a few specimens scattered around Phoenix, one located in the collection of a Nursery nearby being pretty well known and readily accessible. Have yet to see any Foxtails or Teddy bears around town.

Additionally, the Royal planted in my old neighborhood ( Cambrian Park area of San Jose ) back in California is still alive, though not sure if the Google street pic of it is an updated pic or older. Regardless, there are supposedly others scattered around town, according to what I was told by a reputable palm grower located in Gilroy  ( colder area of town, south of San Jose. Famous for growing Garlic. )  at the time. No clue on how they've fared.  Only Foxtail I recall seeing was one planted in a yard close to where I worked ( would pass it going to the bank/ grab lunch every so often ) Did good for awhile, then got knocked out one winter.. Was small, so I'd anticipated it's demise.  As far as I'm aware,  no other specimens around my side of San Jose, at least at that time.  Don't recall seeing, or hearing of.. any Teddy Bears in private collections around town as well. Those might do ok there if given a good start / planted bigger, imo.

[James B]

I’m not sure yet of Roystonea being more cold hardy than foxtails. Especially in a Mediterranean climate. In my area of North Rancho Cucamonga no big box store sells Roystonea. Which says a lot because they spam Bottle Palms with no conscience. Every big box store sells Foxtails and several homes in my area have Foxtails yet I am aware of only 2 homes in the North Upland/ North Rancho area. One is about a mile south of my house as the crow flies and is an impressive 20-plus foot specimen. The other is a pair of 2 big Royals outside along the sidewalk at 1,800-plus elevation which is about 200 feet higher than my yard and will see 1-2 degrees cooler temps. That has given me hope to try two more box sized Royals after I made the mistake of buying last December and the palm going into shock from our winter when it only saw temps of 29-30 at the lowest. Foxtails come from an area with a Mediterranean climate so I would think in California they are more cold hardy than Royals. Whereas in Florida Roystonea would be more robust since it’s their natural habitat.

[LJG]

They seem pretty dang close. In 2007 in gardens here in SoCal showed pretty equal results overall. 

Foxtail is not from Med climate, it’s from Cape York. 

[Tyrone]

9 hours ago, Mohsen said:

Hi all

I have a small  Roystonea regia which I want to plant where I lost my Foxtail or Dypsis leptocheilos last winter . 

my question is , is Is Roystonea regia cold hardier than Foxtail or Dypsis leptocheilos ? it will be in open area with almost all day in full sun.

I have a feeling that the Roystonea regia will be a little bit hardier. Were your foxtail and redneck killed outright or did they get damaged and then slowly die over an extended time.

Last summer I moved my Roystonea borinquena that was getting frosted up about once a year. The first year it totally froze up and I thought that it was gone. Surprisingly in summer it kept going, and then pushed a few fronds only to get frozen again. I left it there for a few years and it was getting nowhere. This winter in its new location it doesn’t get frost so I’m hoping to see it take off without setback. I don’t think a Wodyetia would have taken that abuse especially in my mild summer climate. Sydney has those hot summer days and warm humid nights that I don’t get and given the right amount of moisture and fertiliser the Roystonea should launch.

[richnorm]

Agree with Tyrone, grab a borinquena if you can.  

[greysrigging]

7 hours ago, James B said:

7 hours ago, James B said:

Foxtails come from an area with a Mediterranean climate so I would think in California they are more cold hardy than Royals. Whereas in Florida Roystonea would be more robust since it’s their natural habitat.

 

Actually the Foxtail is a tropical species, growing in a very isolated area of National Park ( Cape Melville ) in Far North Queensland at 14*S of latitude. I am constantly amazed at the range of temps and Zones it will grow in both the US and Australia.
Seen healthy ( ish ) specimens in coastal Perth and Sydney, 20 odd degrees south of natural habit and very far removed climatically. Can't imagine them ever seeing much below 10c ( 50f ) in their natural area and even then the days warm up to 30c ( 86f )
 

https://parks.des.qld.gov.au/parks/cape-melville/

 

[TomJ]

Agreed with similar cold hardiness.

Roystonia will prefer the Full all day sun more so than the others.  LOTS of water.... very thirsty.

 

[Tyrone]

21 hours ago, greysrigging said:

Actually the Foxtail is a tropical species, growing in a very isolated area of National Park ( Cape Melville ) in Far North Queensland at 14*S of latitude. I am constantly amazed at the range of temps and Zones it will grow in both the US and Australia.
Seen healthy ( ish ) specimens in coastal Perth and Sydney, 20 odd degrees south of natural habit and very far removed climatically. Can't imagine them ever seeing much below 10c ( 50f ) in their natural area and even then the days warm up to 30c ( 86f )
 

https://parks.des.qld.gov.au/parks/cape-melville/

 

Theres many fruiting robust healthy Wodyetias around Perth now and the seed is 100% viable too.

[greysrigging]

2 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Theres many fruiting robust healthy Wodyetias around Perth now and the seed is 100% viable too.

In fact, now that you mention it, there are healthy specimens growing in a friends street in Mandurah ( 80klm south of Perth ). I wonder how far south they will grow ?

[Tyrone]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:02 AM, greysrigging said:

In fact, now that you mention it, there are healthy specimens growing in a friends street in Mandurah ( 80klm south of Perth ). I wonder how far south they will grow ?

I might be able to get one survive here but it wouldnt be pretty. I reckon the northern outskirts of Busselton (33.6S) would be the furthest south that they may still look good at. They do like warm summer nights and although Busselton has cool summer nights they're warmer than my area. Ive not bothered with trying one as they will never look as robust as ones growing in Perth and further north. I'll stick to Rhopalostylis and Juania.

[greysrigging]

41 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

I might be able to get one survive here but it wouldnt be pretty. I reckon the northern outskirts of Busselton (33.6S) would be the furthest south that they may still look good at. They do like warm summer nights and although Busselton has cool summer nights they're warmer than my area. I've not bothered with trying one as they will never look as robust as ones growing in Perth and further north. I'll stick to Rhopalostylis and Juania.

Yeah... Albany certainly A Zone Too Far....

Edited October 4, 2019 by greysrigging

[ruskinPalms]

I’m going to vote for royal palms being more cold hardy. They are either naturalized or native (they are technically vouchered as native) to a small part of Desoto county along the Peace River here in Florida. That area, despite being near a river, sees yearly freezes and likely has historically seen the low 20s F.  Also, I have seen many a large royal palm throughout colder areas far from the coast in west central Florida with trunks battle scarred from past freezes. They are tough if they live long enough to get a trunk. Foxtails are fairly tough too once they get bigger but I’d give the edge to royals. I don’t have enough experience with the Dypsis but I suspect it may be the least hardy of the three mentioned here. 

[tim_brissy_13]

There are or have been long term survivors of all 3 in Melbourne but none like the long cool winters and are very marginal. From what I’ve seen D leptocheilos is the most cool hardy and likely to look ok, but I can’t really comment on absolute minimum temperature hardiness as that usually isn’t our problem here. 

[sonoranfans]

The only reason box stores probably stock more foxtails than roystonea is because foxtails are a smaller tree and do not drop large leaves like a royal.  Royals will weigh at least 5x a foxtail when its an adult.   A lot of yards just dont have room for a big royal, everything under it will get dropped upon.   The way it can drop those 30-40lb leaves from on high it will destroy plants under it in a 15-20 foot radius.  A foxtail has lightweight leaves, much smaller and easier to deal with.   Just the crownshaft part of the royal leaves is near as tall as I am @ 6'.   Foxtails will be about as cold hardy at the same size, but the trunk thickness of a royal can be 30" and the bud area of greater mass so I'd give the edge toa  big royal.  At a young age I dont see a difference.  Teddy bears have appeared similar but the bud is more frost protected.  Mine survived 2010 when bigger royals and foxtails died with spear pull.  The teddy was frosted but it and a small kentiopsis oliviformis had better success against bud rot at the same temp with frost.   Dypsis pembana also pulled spears but two of three of those survived after peroxide/daconil treatments.  Royals and foxtails and foxy ladies were not successful in treatment after bud rot.  Bottom line is that you need to get some size on the tree before it gets hit with that freeze, and royals are also the fastest growers of the three by a good margin.  Get a few feet of trunk on that royal and you might survive a 28F plus frost florida cold front.  The teddy is slow but mine has 6-7' trunk now(9 yrs from 5 gallon) and it seems happy too.  But in that same time the royal doubled the teddy in change in height, and the trunk is ~ 4x thicker.

[RedRabbit]

28 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

The only reason box stores probably stock more foxtails than roystonea is because foxtails are a smaller tree and do not drop large leaves like a royal.  Royals will weigh at least 5x a foxtail when its an adult.   A lot of yards just dont have room for a big royal, everything under it will get dropped upon.   The way it can drop those 30-40lb leaves from on high it will destroy plants under it in a 15-20 foot radius.  A foxtail has lightweight leaves, much smaller and easier to deal with.   Just the crownshaft part of the royal leaves is near as tall as I am @ 6'.   Foxtails will be about as cold hardy at the same size, but the trunk thickness of a royal can be 30" and the bud area of greater mass so I'd give the edge toa  big royal.  At a young age I dont see a difference.  Teddy bears have appeared similar but the bud is more frost protected.  Mine survived 2010 when bigger royals and foxtails died with spear pull.  The teddy was frosted but it and a small kentiopsis oliviformis had better success against bud rot at the same temp with frost.   Dypsis pembana also pulled spears but two of three of those survived after peroxide/daconil treatments.  Royals and foxtails and foxy ladies were not successful in treatment after bud rot.  Bottom line is that you need to get some size on the tree before it gets hit with that freeze, and royals are also the fastest growers of the three by a good margin.  Get a few feet of trunk on that royal and you might survive a 28F plus frost florida cold front.  The teddy is slow but mine has 6-7' trunk now(9 yrs from 5 gallon) and it seems happy too.  But in that same time the royal doubled the teddy in change in height, and the trunk is ~ 4x thicker.

I'm glad to hear d leptochellos is fairly bud hardy.  Did yours have any trunk damage after 2010? I know of an established garden not far from me with d leptochellos, r regia, etc. The r regia was planted around 1990 and looks really good, but the d leptochellos has a fair number of scars on the trunk from the cold. Interestingly the owner said his a cunninghamiana has never had any damage by comparison. 

[James B]

6 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

The only reason box stores probably stock more foxtails than roystonea is because foxtails are a smaller tree and do not drop large leaves like a royal.  Royals will weigh at least 5x a foxtail when its an adult.   A lot of yards just dont have room for a big royal, everything under it will get dropped upon.   The way it can drop those 30-40lb leaves from on high it will destroy plants under it in a 15-20 foot radius.  A foxtail has lightweight leaves, much smaller and easier to deal with.   Just the crownshaft part of the royal leaves is near as tall as I am @ 6'.   Foxtails will be about as cold hardy at the same size, but the trunk thickness of a royal can be 30" and the bud area of greater mass so I'd give the edge toa  big royal.  At a young age I dont see a difference.  Teddy bears have appeared similar but the bud is more frost protected.  Mine survived 2010 when bigger royals and foxtails died with spear pull.  The teddy was frosted but it and a small kentiopsis oliviformis had better success against bud rot at the same temp with frost.   Dypsis pembana also pulled spears but two of three of those survived after peroxide/daconil treatments.  Royals and foxtails and foxy ladies were not successful in treatment after bud rot.  Bottom line is that you need to get some size on the tree before it gets hit with that freeze, and royals are also the fastest growers of the three by a good margin.  Get a few feet of trunk on that royal and you might survive a 28F plus frost florida cold front.  The teddy is slow but mine has 6-7' trunk now(9 yrs from 5 gallon) and it seems happy too.  But in that same time the royal doubled the teddy in change in height, and the trunk is ~ 4x thicker.

All good points 

[sonoranfans]

Red Rabbit, my teddy had no trunk yet in 2010.  It was a 5-7(?) gallon size with the bud right just off the ground.  It lost all it leaves and it was a slow grow back, though I probably underwatered it and didnt make a good mulch around it till a few years back.  today it carries more leaves and seems happy.

[kinzyjr]

Regarding pre-2010 palms: There are certainly more Roystonea regia (Royal Palm) here than Wodyetia bifurcata (Foxtail Palm) or Dypsis leptocheilos (Teddy Bear Palm).  Purely anecdotal and perhaps due to sampling size since Foxtails hadn't caught on yet and there are so few Teddy Bears here, but an observation none the less.  That said, there are survivors from the 2010 freeze in all three species, so I won't have more localized information until the next big freeze that we hopefully will never get.

[RedRabbit]

8 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Regarding pre-2010 palms: There are certainly more Roystonea regia (Royal Palm) here than Wodyetia bifurcata (Foxtail Palm) or Dypsis leptocheilos (Teddy Bear Palm).  Purely anecdotal and perhaps due to sampling size since Foxtails hadn't caught on yet and there are so few Teddy Bears here, but an observation none the less.  That said, there are survivors from the 2010 freeze in all three species, so I won't have more localized information until the next big freeze that we hopefully will never get.

If memory serves, you don't have a d leptochellos do you? You should get one, they do great here. I really doubt one would have died in 2018 like your A alexandrae did.

[kinzyjr]

10 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

If memory serves, you don't have a d leptochellos do you? You should get one, they do great here. I really doubt one would have died in 2018 like your A alexandrae did.

No, I don't have one.  I saw a few nice ones at the Searle sale this weekend there were a bit too large to fit comfortably in the car for the ride up US-27.  I've considered just getting seeds and going that route.  As far as Foxtails go, they are actively flowering, fruiting and reproducing here already, so getting one of those wouldn't be much of an issue.