caryota use in landscape

[bjaworski]

I am wondering if someone can help provide more information on caryota in the landscape.  I live in Sunset Zone 24--coastal southern california.  I have seen these palms thrive here.  Here is my question:  Do these palms all tend to have a life expectancy of about 30 years?  I have read that when they send out their seed spike, they slowly die.  If this is true for all the varieties in this genus (ochlanda, mitis, urens), I may decide against it.  They get monstrously huge in my area and I don't want to deal with a dying giant in 30 years.  Also, I have seen references made to caryota gigas.  Is that yet another member of this genus? Thanks!

[DoomsDave]

Beth!

Welcome aboard to our lovingly functional, if untraditional family . . . . .

Any of the single-trunkers will die after a while.  C. urens will live about 30 years.  I've been told that C. gigas also lives about that long, though the jury's still out.

If you don't want to have to worry about removing a dead monster, plant C. mitis, which is a multitrunker, or plant Arenga engleri (slow but pretty).

C. mitis tends to yellow in full sun, though it definitely looks better by the beach.

Again, welcome aboard!

dave

[TikiRick]

Beth,

Some palms are "terminal" which means that once they get to maturity, they set fruit (seed), then slowly die. This group includes Caryota, or the common fishtail palm.

If it is a single trunk, then the entire plant will die. If it is a multi-trunk, as with Caryota mitis (common 'fishtail'), you can simply cut out that trunk that has died, leaving room for the smaller trunks to grow into that spot.

Personally, I don't want to grow a palm that is terminal. So, for this reason alone, I have no Caryotas. I guess it is just how you look at it....all living things are terminal in one respect, I guess!

[Really full garden]

I think Caryota mitis is a great choice.It is not so large and when time comes to remove a trunk it is not such an ordeal.My mitis thrives in full sun at the beach about 300m from the water.

                                                                                  Scott

[DoomsDave]

Beth:

So much that is glorious in life is transitory.  If you know that up front, plant a C. gigas anyway, and glory in that MARVELOUS canopy of foliage, like a gigantic mantilla.

30 years is a long time . . .

Just be sure to plant it where the removers can get to it.

That said, it's up to you.

How about a picture of your garden?

dave

[Jeff Searle]

I can't speak for you all out in Cali., but here in South Florida, Caryota's never live to be 30 years old. I have seen them die in less than 10 years! And on more than one occasion too. Just different climates. One thing to consider, if you really would like to grow one of the single trunk species, consider planting it out along the swale or just inside your property. That way you can easily get to it when you have to remove it. Just a thought(and by experience).

Jeff

007

[Joe palma]

Jeff - I am not suprised at all that they would grow faster in FL, but less than 10 yrs to seeding seems pretty short (not doubting it though). Do  you know if those plants were dug up and moved at a slightly mature/non-juvenile age?Sometimes that can send the plant into the terminal process or accelerate the time to that point. Maybe a hurricane damaged/traumatized the plants and sent them off in that direction.  ???

Not sure what the average age of monocarpic Caryota's at the termnial point in CA is, but there are many that seem to have lived quite a long time (C. urens: Balboa park and Quail botanical gardens). Probably species dependent also.

Beth - Personally, the C. gigas is such an awesome palm that I didn't hesitate to plant one. I've done as Dave and Jeff mentioned, planting it in a location that is easily accesible (along driveway) and room for it to come down (driveway space). And they produce a ton of shade/canopy for a palm tree. Downside again is you loose the canopy protection at the end. I have heard others say, start another one underneath the big one, so it can replace it later. IMO cutting it down in 20 to 30 yrs is no big deal. Not having the canopy protection could be.

I also like the suggestion of the clumpers (mitis or monostachya). As Rick mentioned, it's not a big deal to remove the one dead trunk and the others just keep growing. As noted by others, shade areas are best for these (unless you are close to the beach). I have a monostachya in the ground and it is doing very well (wish I had planted sooner!). No cold damage at all this past winter.

[doubravsky]

There are some really attractive, huge Caryota Gigas at the San Diego Zoo.... some near the front, and some really nice ones over by the kids' petting zoo area...

they're the ones that convinced me to buy mine. It took some damage this winter at 24 degrees, but it bounced back nicely once it warmed up.

[Scott Mcintosh]

I say GO FOR IT. We can not guarantee any palm will live any number of years. I use to think the same way, I now have growing C. obtusa,mitis,no and a triple trunk urens.

[bjaworski]

Hi Everyone:

Thank you so much for all the great feedback.  As it turns out, the place I had in mind is very inaccessible and might pose a problem later for the State of CA when the palm  dies (it could fall into a canyon and perhaps onto a road at the bottom of the canyon--then it would probably also be a big problem for me for having planted it in the first place!!!)  Darn--but I am glad I asked first.

I recently saw some great caryotas near South Coast Plaza in  Costa Mesa.  (Some nice Roystonia Regia, there, too).  There are some wonderful caryota specimens in San Diego--I live near Balboa Park.  When they are big and well fed and watered, they almost remind me of Redwoods.  

In the last several years, I've planted 21 king palms--mostly in clumps, around my yard.  I've got a few other palms, too, but I still think I should diversify a bit.  I just purchased some Roystonia seeds and have in mind a place for two of them if I can get them started, so maybe I'll content myself with that!!

[happ]

bjaworski

Sounds like you have plenty of room for caryota.  "21 King Palms"    

Can't wait for urens to mature into a tall silhouette  

[DoomsDave]

Beth:

You are the King Palm Queen.  

Sorry, couldn't resist.

By the way, what science are you into?

Curious.

dave

[ruskinPalms]

I love the look of caryota but I must admit I am a bit nervous about their removal in as little as 10 years. I have mitis growing, and it is SLOWLY aclimating to a FULL sun location. I think it will eventually become a stunner, but it is struggling a bit now. Mitis does not have that stigma of being terminal so to speak...

[bjaworski]

Hi:

To answer Dave's question about what kind of science I do:  Myself, I am an experimental psychologist.  My specialty is making mathematical models about how people make decisions.  I also worked on ways to measure things like health outcomes--You can't tell if medical care is effective--especially cost effective--if you can't measure somewhat precisely how it improves (or damages!!!) health and well-being.

The email I use is my fiance's account.  I am guessing this is why Dave asked what kind of science "I" do!  My fiance is a professor of chemistry.  More or less, his specialty is creating molecules that don't otherwise exist (as far as anyone can tell) in nature.  These molecules can do a variety of things such as providing a platform that can be used in drug development; some of his molecules have industrial applications such as streamlining purifying commodity compounds or pharmaceuitcals...  The molecules  can also be used to deliver "nanoparticles" to specific areas of the body--cancer cells for instance.  One project he is involved in now is the engineering of a molecule that can detect and adhere itself to breast cancer cells.  The project involves attaching a nanoparticle to the molecule that will light up in an MRI and scream "I am a breast cancer cell and only a breast  cancer cell:  Destroy me."  Such a process can add significantly to the cost-effectiveness and the utility of using MRI to screen for breast cancer.  Right now, the screening technique is so hard to correctly interpret that it's effectiveness is greatly compromised.

So, in a nutshell, that's my answer!  

b

[DoomsDave]

Thanks Beth!

Hmm.  Apply some of your science to how you decide which, if any Caryota to plant?

Sorry, couldn't resist.  

My model is:  I see, I like, I buy, I plant . . . . (if it's small and cheap enough)

dave