Admiring Sarasota palm diversity during today's run

[sarasota alex]

Went on an 8-mile jog today here in Sarasota, from the Marina Jack area downtown, over to and around the St. Armands Key, then around the upper Bird Key, over the bridge back to downtown and a bit there. So today I decided to make a mental note of every species of palms that I've seen along the way and counted them at the end. I was surprised with a total of at least 49 distinct species! Now I know that there are tropical cities that would laugh at this list, but still proud of how palmy my Sarasota really is! There were a couple of surprises there for me :)

Here is the list of what I saw:

Acoelorrhaphe wrightii
Adonidia merrillii
Allagoptera arenaria
Archontophoenix alexandrae
Archontophoenix cunninghamiana
Arenga engleri
Arenga pinnata
Attalea cohune
Bismarckia nobilis
Butia odorata
Carpentaria acuminata
Caryota mitis
Chamaedorea cataractarum
Chamaedorea elegans (in a pot :))
Chamaedorea seifrizii
Chamaerops humilis
Chambeyronia macrocarpa
Coccothrinax argentata
Cocos nucifera
Copernicia alba
Copernicia baileyana
Dictyosperma album
Dypsis decaryi
Dypsis leptocheilos
Dypsis lutescens
Hyophorbe lagenicaulis
Hyophorbe verschaffeltii
Leucothrinax morrisii
Livistona chinensis
Livistona decora
Phoenix canariensis
Phoenix dactylifera
Phoenix reclinata
Phoenix roebelenii
Phoenix sylvestris
Pseudophoenix sargentii
Ptychosperma elegans
Ravenea rivularis
Rhapis excelsa
Rhapis humilis
Roystonea regia
Sabal palmetto
Serenoa repens
Syagrus romanzoffiana
Syagrus schizophylla
Thrinax radiata
Veitchia arecina
Washingtonia robusta
Wodyetia bifurcata

Also I believe that I've encountered more than a single species of Veitchia, but I couldn't tell for sure, so only listed a single one. And there was a Phoenix that from a distance looked like a possible P. rupicola, but it was kind of far and partially obstructed, so I'm not listing it. And a whole bunch of Phoenix hybrids. So technically the count could be higher.

Map of the run:

[kinzyjr]

@sarasota alex That's some major distance buddy!  You saw a lot of stuff in 8 miles as well!

[sarasota alex]

9 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@sarasota alex That's some major distance buddy!  You saw a lot of stuff in 8 miles as well!

Thanks! Getting ready for the Sarasota Music Half Marathon next Sunday. Will be doing a count again to kill time

[Silas_Sancona]

Agree w/ Kinzyjr, a good run for sure.

See, via the map, you ventured into the neighborhood on Bird Key, directly across from Bayfront Park.. Was curious what might be hiding in there whenever i was at the park myself,  wasn't sure if taking a side-stroll through there might be ok.  Regardless, great list.. How'd the Coconuts at Bayfront look?  Had been wondering about ID on some of the Veitchia there also. Posted pictures from there a couple times here back in 2014 or 15. 

[sarasota alex]

25 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Agree w/ Kinzyjr, a good run for sure.

See, via the map, you ventured into the neighborhood on Bird Key, directly across from Bayfront Park.. Was curious what might be hiding in there whenever i was at the park myself,  wasn't sure if taking a side-stroll through there might be ok.  Regardless, great list.. How'd the Coconuts at Bayfront look?  Had been wondering about ID on some of the Veitchia there also. Posted pictures from there a couple times here back in 2014 or 15. 

Thanks! The Bayfront Coconuts and Veitchias look good. Bird Key was by far the most diverse area. I've been pretty familiar with the palms along the Robin Dr and Bird Key Dr. But today ran into the S Warbler Ln cul-de-sac and made a cool discovery of a couple of Attaleas and multiple Allagopters in a front yard there! There is a yard on Robin Dr, that I really like that has 25ft+ Dictyospermas and Chambeyronias.

One thing that was sad to see today was that some of the Arenga pinnata around the center of the St. Armand's Circle are beginning to flower

 

[sarasota alex]

This is the yard I'm referring to:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.324662,-82.560187,3a,37.5y,88.87h,100.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4rbndKKzBgc4x3IuZ7H8Sg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A group of Dictyosperma on the left and a group of Chambeyronia on the right behind the Royals. All are a few feet taller now.

Better shot of the Chambeyronia group from this angle:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3245707,-82.5601748,3a,37.5y,62.71h,99.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU6DF6aqjJyVfpDT1Y6wfHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Silas_Sancona]

5 minutes ago, sarasota alex said:

This is the yard I'm referring to:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.324662,-82.560187,3a,37.5y,88.87h,100.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4rbndKKzBgc4x3IuZ7H8Sg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A group of Dictyosperma on the left and a group of Chambeyronia on the right behind the Royals. All are a few feet taller now.

Better shot of the Chambeyronia group from this angle:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3245707,-82.5601748,3a,37.5y,62.71h,99.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU6DF6aqjJyVfpDT1Y6wfHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

WOW! Those Flamethrowers!, let alone everything else.. Now second guessing not taking a look around when i had the opportunity, lol

Agree, kind of sad to hear about the A. pinnata. Admittedly, i never really explored St Armand's Circle in more depth, other than what was visible while passing through when looking over stuff in landscapes along the road up towards Longboat. Still, i remember when the specimens up at Kopsick were starting to decline, especially after they'd been removed. 

[sarasota alex]

This couple of Baileys on St. Armand's Key now have a few feet of trunk. I'm surprised to see them grow so fast in just 3.5 years since the photo.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3155402,-82.5746243,3a,35.4y,158h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szzkNvn08Pl4qE1c6wFmcRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[RedRabbit]

Sarasota has done a fantastic job with their waterfront. The whole area is beautiful and I have to say I'm a little jealous you get to live there while I'm stuck 50 miles north in distinctly less tropical Tampa. Sorry to hear about the A pinnata's, I've always really liked them.  

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by RedRabbit

[Palmdude129]

Wow that’s a lot of palms. How in the hell did you remember all those?

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, Palmdude129 said:

Wow that’s a lot of palms. How in the hell did you remember all those?

I was thinking the same thing!  Although I do a run-walk to try and average out to a 9-10 minute pace, most of my walk time is spent recovering, not memorizing palms!    I found the Attaleas around the circle, I think.  That's a great running area, way more variety than my local favorite 13-15 milers.  Outside of a nice row of 3x 15' tall pindos and a 10' tall sagos, it's just endless miles of live oaks, water oaks and sabals.  But it's a nice trail and not much car exhaust!

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3179652,-82.5769035,3a,75y,332.05h,97.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUB-B5UnrUwzMZBZEOnn_Bg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[RedRabbit]

5 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I was thinking the same thing!  Although I do a run-walk to try and average out to a 9-10 minute pace, most of my walk time is spent recovering, not memorizing palms!    I found the Attaleas around the circle, I think.  That's a great running area, way more variety than my local favorite 13-15 milers.  Outside of a nice row of 3x 15' tall pindos and a 10' tall sagos, it's just endless miles of live oaks, water oaks and sabals.  But it's a nice trail and not much car exhaust!

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3179652,-82.5769035,3a,75y,332.05h,97.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUB-B5UnrUwzMZBZEOnn_Bg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Those are two of the Arenga pinnata's. They'll probably grow over where you're at if you want to give them a try! 

[Merlyn]

3 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Those are two of the Arenga pinnata's. They'll probably grow over where you're at if you want to give them a try! 

Yep, I am planning on it!  I have Arenga Pinnata and Phalerata seedlings, and might try to find a 3-7G size that I can plant out this spring.    I've been having a hard time finding the Pinnata anywhere locally, at least for a reasonable price.

[Merlyn]

I was doing a "Google drive" down your route on Bird Key and at the corner of Robin and Bird Key Dr there's a cluster that I don't quite recognize.  It sort of looks like Dypsis Cabadae, but that isn't on your list of palms.  It doesn't quite looks like a Carpentaria Acuminata or a Ptychosperma elegans that are on the list.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3217824,-82.5614918,3a,75y,13.1h,91.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL6YbfrbHjep4c6LjIDhVhw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Out of curiosity, where are the Attalea Cohune?

[sarasota alex]

8 hours ago, Palmdude129 said:

Wow that’s a lot of palms. How in the hell did you remember all those?

Good question!

In order to remember this many items (of any kind) they need to be listed in the mind in some sort of an organized, preferably sequential way. One way to do it is to re-trace your route and what you saw along the way. It may work on a 1- or maybe a 2-mile run, but not possible over the course of 8 miles. Another way and the most natural statistically - is to sequence things alphabetically. But mental filing in an alphabetical list takes time. It would take me several seconds to figure out that Coccothrinax goes right before Cocos, and then make a mental note of it in a way that I would end up remembering. All while maybe taking 5 seconds to pass a yard with several species in it. I found it not to be possible.

So the way I do it, that works for me, is really taking advantage of two things - being exclusively a picture thinker and being a taxonomy junkie. I can literally mentally picture a 3D version of the entire taxonomic structure of the Arecaceae family, including all subfamilies, tribes, subtribes, unplaced clades, etc. with the right place for every genus to belong. I see a palm on a street, I just file a mental picture in the right place in that structure. Takes me milliseconds with no real mental effort. Then upon completion of the run I just go down the order and right down every palm I "filed". Then sort alphabetically in Excel. So if I visit someone's yard, I can usually perfectly remember every species of palm I saw, but as long as there is no more than about 7 of the same genus. This is where I hit a wall. Let's say I see 12 species of Syagrus in a botanical garden. I will never be able to tell which ones they were without making written notes. That's because I cannot think verbally and there is no structure I can visualize that would allow me to organize species within Syagrus genus for example. If someone was to ask me if I saw a specific one, I would probably remember, but I wouldn't be able to produce a list. Some genera are exceptions to this rule. For example Sabal. It's easy for me to visualize a map of the Neotropics under "Sabal" and file species based on their distribution. Dypsis on the other hand is the hardest for me to remember the species of.

I wish there was a practical use for this. There isn't Doesn't help me keep my palms alive.

 

 

[sarasota alex]

5 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Although I do a run-walk to try and average out to a 9-10 minute pace

 

I'm slower than that About 11:40. Gives me more time...

 

[sarasota alex]

4 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I was doing a "Google drive" down your route on Bird Key and at the corner of Robin and Bird Key Dr there's a cluster that I don't quite recognize.  It sort of looks like Dypsis Cabadae, but that isn't on your list of palms.  It doesn't quite looks like a Carpentaria Acuminata or a Ptychosperma elegans that are on the list.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3217824,-82.5614918,3a,75y,13.1h,91.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL6YbfrbHjep4c6LjIDhVhw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Out of curiosity, where are the Attalea Cohune?

These are Dypsis lutescens, and Adonidia merrillii in the island on the right.

[sarasota alex]

4 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

I was doing a "Google drive" down your route on Bird Key and at the corner of Robin and Bird Key Dr there's a cluster that I don't quite recognize.  It sort of looks like Dypsis Cabadae, but that isn't on your list of palms.  It doesn't quite looks like a Carpentaria Acuminata or a Ptychosperma elegans that are on the list.

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3217824,-82.5614918,3a,75y,13.1h,91.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL6YbfrbHjep4c6LjIDhVhw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Out of curiosity, where are the Attalea Cohune?

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3201353,-82.5638737,122a,35y,13.1h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3

This empty lot now has a home. Attalea and Allagoptera are in the front yard. They weren't there at the time Google was taking pictures in 2015

[Merlyn]

49 minutes ago, sarasota alex said:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3201353,-82.5638737,122a,35y,13.1h,45t/data=!3m1!1e3

This empty lot now has a home. Attalea and Allagoptera are in the front yard. They weren't there at the time Google was taking pictures in 2015

Gotcha, thanks!  It looks like a great forest in the current Google pics!  I didn't even think about Dypsis Lutescens for that spot on Robin Dr, we only see young ones around Orlando.  They get wiped out to the roots before they can grow a mature  trunk, so all I see are the young ones without the big recurve and V shaped leaflet arrangement.  I'm not sure I've ever seen a big clump with white trunks.

I spent 15 years running IronMan races, marathons and ultramarathons, until I discovered palms. I'm lucky to break 10 minutes these days, but am no longer running close to 1000 miles/year.  On the plus side, spending 10 hours on the yard is easier with all that endurance training...and I've got my maintenance tasks down to a few hours per week.  This year I can get back out there to put in some real bike and run miles!

Edited January 28, 2019 by Merlyn2220

[sarasota alex]

1 hour ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Gotcha, thanks!  It looks like a great forest in the current Google pics!  I didn't even think about Dypsis Lutescens for that spot on Robin Dr, we only see young ones around Orlando.  They get wiped out to the roots before they can grow a mature  trunk, so all I see are the young ones without the big recurve and V shaped leaflet arrangement.  I'm not sure I've ever seen a big clump with white trunks.

I spent 15 years running IronMan races, marathons and ultramarathons, until I discovered palms. I'm lucky to break 10 minutes these days, but am no longer running close to 1000 miles/year.  On the plus side, spending 10 hours on the yard is easier with all that endurance training...and I've got my maintenance tasks down to a few hours per week.  This year I can get back out there to put in some real bike and run miles!

Wow! Those are some awesome achievements Todd! I used to do halves in the past, but only broke 10 minutes once I think. Next Sunday will be my first half in probably 5 years. I haven't been running much these years. In November I signed up for Turkey 5K around the Thanksgiving and couldn't finish it. I was so mad at myself that I decided to start running again and do this half. Hoping to maybe do a full marathon next winter. Never done that. The most I ran was 30K once years ago.