How safe are electric propagator seed germination stations?

[SoulofthePlace]

Can a "electric propagator", "hydrofarm", seed "germination station" catch on fire? It needs to remain on for months and how does one feel comforatble to leave home or go to sleep at night with the unit constantly on?

[Darold Petty]

I have a heavy duty rubber heat mat that uses 115 volts, alternating current.  It has a thermocouple and a remote thermostat.  This is Not the Jumpstart black plastic unit. It has been in service continuously for 26 years.  I leave it on when I depart for long vacations and I have never shut it off.  It is on 12 hours per day, resulting in a 24 hour cycle of 60F overnight to 80F daytime.  Excellent results for palm seed germination !

  For an additional level of safety, ensure that the electric power source is protected by GFCI,  (ground fault circuit interrupter) 

[dalmatiansoap]

I'm not so fluent in technical terms in English, but as Darold mentioned, if u use GFCI system it should be safe as any other electric element.

[SoulofthePlace]

4 hours ago, dalmatiansoap said:

I'm not so fluent in technical terms in English, but as Darold mentioned, if u use GFCI system it should be safe as any other electric element.

I don't know whether this country or island has "GFCI" or whether GFCI only exists in the USA. Perhaps Portugal has GFCI but has a different name for it? My house in PT trips the main if there is short, for example if it rains on an open connection, but I am worried about these germinators as they have wire inset like a snake in styrofoam and if it fails (in some way unknown to me), such as the wire itself overheats or catches on fire, perhaps a rare lightning strike, and slowly catches fire the "GFCI" won't help? Only a electrical specialist and old gardener, or a professional nursery would know if such cases exist? I would love the peace of mind that someone can assure us as I can't sleep at night with it "on".

I can take a photo if the inside of the bottom heater panel of my germinator, if necessary.

Edited November 15, 2018 by SoulofthePlace

[dalmatiansoap]

I'm an electrical specialist by the way :).

I see you are in Portugal and me beeing in Croatia means we have almost same power standards. If u have quality RCD breaker in your home fuse box, there is nothing much to worry from electrical side.

Edited November 15, 2018 by dalmatiansoap

[Darold Petty]

I will try to provide additional basic information about circuit breakers and GFCI. For readers with English as a second language I will also attempt to write as clearly as possible and to avoid the use of 'slang' phrases.  Please bear in mind that I was a carpenter, not an electrician ! 

  The circuit breaker is located in the main electrical panel, where the various branch circuits converge, and where they obtain electrical power.  These breakers are a type of switch that limits the amount of electricity that can flow through the wires, typically 15 or 20 amperes.  If the energized wire carries too much amperage the wire can become very hot, even melting or causing sparks and fire.  The breaker can only limit the maximum flow of electricity and can be considered 'dumb or stupid'.  If a person were being shocked with a current of 10 amperes through a circuit with a 20 ampere breaker, this breaker would NOT shut off since it would recognize only a 50% usage of its ampere rating.  Not good !!

GFCI has more advanced circuitry, considered 'smart', and can recognize extremely small flows of electricity that are bad, and dangerous.  Alternating current, in the USA, has electrical flow that reverses direction 60 cycles per second (hertz)  If the electrical usage is proper this ebb and flow will be balanced and equal.  If they are not balanced this means that electricity is flowing badly to somewhere it should not flow. This is the Ground Fault. The GFCI receptacle monitors this ebb and flow, and shuts off when it detects an imbalance. The GFCI receptacle will shut off in 1/250 of a second, after detecting an imbalance too small to cause injury or fire.

  Here is an example of a dangerous condition.  A kitchen appliance has deteriorated insulation of the energized wire, and this has now caused the metal housing to become energized as well.  Nothing bad happens because there is no pathway for the electricity to flow to natural, earth ground. However, a person touching the housing and also touching the metal water faucet will provide a pathway to ground through the person's body and the metal water faucet.  The circuit breaker will not shut off unless the electric flow through  the person's body exceeds the amperage rating of the breaker.  Very BAD !!   The GFCI will recognize the imbalance of the electrical shock to the person and will shut off in the 1/250 of a second.  Defective appliances will often leak a sufficient amount of electricity so that the GFCI will not allow electrical flow, whether or not the appliance is in use.

 Here in California  GFCI protected receptacles are mandatory in kitchens, bathrooms, and all outdoor receptacles.  Many modern appliances now have GFCI built in to the basic component, such as hair dryers, or pressure washers.  This protection is easily recognized by the two small buttons, one marked 'test' and the other 'reset'.

As Dalmatiansoap mentions, this protection can also be built into the circuit breakers.

SoulofthePlace....  If you have an RCD breaker, or a receptacle with the two small buttons you will have excellent protection and should feel confident to use a heating mat for your palm seeds.     

[dalmatiansoap]

Imbalance is the right word! Funny, I know better English for my hobbies then for my profession.

[SoulofthePlace]

Thanks guys for the information regarding RFC breakers and GFCI. In Portugal there is no mandatory GFCI as I just don't see them installed. Perhaps need to rewire the entire house to install GFCI or perhaps GFCI is unavailable for Europe or for Portugal? I don't know. Therefore this is the info I found on a commercial website:

" Most electrical fires are caused by High Resistive Connections (HRC) which lead to the development of excessive heat. Circuit Breakers, RCD's and RCBO's and  are unable to detect HRC as this generally happens externally. The very nature of these faults mean that the connections themselves become very hot, more than 1000ºC, which rapidly becomes a fire at which point if the supply is not isolated then the fire will develop beyond our immediate control. "

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/can-rcd-prevent-fire-colin-walker

They seem to offer a solution called Thermarestor, but this is for Britain.

Now let me show you my RFC breaker and my seed germinator (photos). Please advise or comment and afrter that I will call my electrician to find out what can be done to have GFCI installed at least for one of the receptacles which I want to use the seed germinator with. Or would I have to install GFCI in all receptacles for it to work and rewire the house?

Photos of the "PROPAGATOR 64/50" (50 Watt heating system, with a dimmer) :
Outside: https://i.postimg.cc/y816Xg0q/DSC06110.jpg
Under the tray: https://i.postimg.cc/hv8gVcjP/DSC06111.jpg
It reads MIDDENDRAAD (arrow up). No idea what that is whether manufacturer name or etc.

Photos of the central "RCD breaker":
https://i.postimg.cc/qvqVv887/DSC06112.jpg
Upclose shot, (the camera will not take a better photo)
https://i.postimg.cc/cLr2SdSg/DSC06113.jpg

The first block of the central breaker the main switch seems to be installed upside down. It confuses me sometimes, at night. There are lit stairs outdoors and when it rains and I turn the stairs light the central breaker trips and the entire house is off.

I will be using it in the office, to also heat the room, that's why I am so careful. Finally, has anyone heard of propagator (germinator etc.) catching on fire?
 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by SoulofthePlace

[Darold Petty]

1 hour ago, SoulofthePlace said:

The first block of the central breaker the main switch seems to be installed upside down. It confuses me sometimes, at night. There are lit stairs outdoors and when it rains and I turn the stairs light the central breaker trips and the entire house is off.

I will be using it in the office, to also heat the room, that's why I am so careful. Finally, has anyone heard of propagator (germinator etc.) catching on fire?

 
This condition sounds like a wiring error, one that needs to be examined by a professional electrician.

I read the linkedin description of RCD, this is the same technology as GFCI.  A modern circuit in California has three conductors, the energized power source (black insulation), the passive neutral (white insulation), and the dedicated ground, (green insulation.)

  A GFCI receptacle can be installed where ever there was a standard receptacle, just for that point of use without alteration of any other wiring. Older wiring in California often lacks the dedicated ground wire.  It is an electrical code violation  to install a GFCI without the dedicated ground. The GFCI receptacle is much larger in volume than a basic receptacle, sometimes it can be difficult to install it in the electrical outlet box.

  However, I can assure you that the GFCI protection will still function with just the black and white conductors.  I know this from direct experience.  Therefore, this higher level of protection is available for any existing receptacle location.  Just change the receptacle to GFCI for peace of mind for the heat mat power supply. 

 No, I have never heard of a heat mat catching on fire.