Queen Palm history

[SubTropicRay]

When did the export of Queen palm seed and/or plants begin? I've often wondered how this South American beauty got so well distributed throughout the world and when this process began. Today, Wodyetia is becomming very common because there are so many growers propagting seed and selling specimen plants. The Queen Palm was a novelty (probably early 20th century) when we did not have hundreds of nurseries distributing seed or plants. How then, did this plant become so well represented throughout the globe?

Ray

[redant]

I moved to FL about 1987. I wasn't a palm nut back then but certainly enjoyed them. I had noticed some larger specimens here and there but not on a regular basis. I'm guessing by the size of the ones I noticed back then, early 80's was when they popped up.

[TikiRick]

I have a photograph of me as a kid (maybe 3 years old?) holding my Easter basket in the front yard of my grandparent's home just north of downtown Miami. The year would have been 1964 and their entire street was lined with 30-40 foot Queen palms. I would venture to say that the Queen palm took Florida by storm sometime in the early 1950's.

(And I'll have you know I found the egg with the 50 cents in it!!!!!)

I would think that when those original imports began to seed, all hell broke loose on the Queen palm market. Every squirrel and opposum helped plant more Queen palms!!

[Alan_Tampa]

Try late 1800's.

Alan

[ruskinPalms]

I think the queen palm has become so well distributed for several reasons:

1. It is a beautiful palm

2. It is cold and frost hardy

3. It does not have thorns or spines making it average Joe home owner friendly

4. It grows fast

5. It fruits profusely

6. It germinates easily

7. More tropical looking compared to the other cold hardy pinnate palms like Butia and Phoenix species

And I am sure the list could go on

I don't think foxtails will be as successful even though they have many of the qualities listed above. Most important missing from the foxtail's list is frost and cold hardiness. They seem to do OK with brief dips into the high 20's and even may have the slightest frost tolerance but will never have the longevity of a Queen palm in areas where Queen Palms are most prolific.

[ibreakforpalms]

Not that anyone asked:  My only "beef" with Queen palms is that, unfortunately,  people don't know how to take care of them.  They are virtually EVERYWHERE and look like $&*t (horribly stunted new leaves, skinny little trunks with a sad caliper, yellow leaves, over pruned with two leaves and a retarded half ass spear comming out, etc.)!  Let me stop   This is even true in the yards of people with nice landscapes.  Don't get me wrong, every once in a while you'll see a good looking one and for that I'm proud.  If people knew how they looked when you actually care for them, I wonder if people would ??? ?  I doubt it .  Oh well.  Sorry, I saw a thread about Queen palms and had to get that off my chest.  Does this happen in other countries too?  I'm good now :cool: .

[SubTropicRay]

I agree that most are not maintained but that's not the palms fault right?  If they were all maintained correctly, many people would have a different outlook towards it.

Alan, there are photos of old West Tampa when it was the cigar producing capital of the world (early 20th century).  Next to the huge Mango trees were Queen Palms.  I think you're right about the late 1800's.  I would still love to know more about the first seed/plant export from Brazil.

[Fred Zone 10A]

I've seen queen palms in photos taken in Pasadena, California in the 1910's, so I think the late 1800's could be right.

I agree with ibreakforpalms.  A well-cared for queen palm can be beautiful.

[DoomsDave]

For all of the above reasons, queens rock, and people have been smart enough to realize it for more than 100 years.

I'd say about the late 1880s is when they were introduced.  If my memory serves, I read a local history of Riverside and it indicated that a guy out there, instead of selling orange trees like everyone else did, sold queen palms, back in the late 1800s.

Queens can, with time, get TALL.  At least as tall as a Washie robusta, well above 100 feet (35 m).  

I recall pictures in the Palm Journals of old, back in the 1990s (when the world was inhabited by cave men, c-women, trogs and Neanderthals) that showed specimens that had to be 150 feet tall, unless the crowns shrink with age.

I've seen old specimens in Hollywood, Pasadena, Old Town San Diego and Stan Anal that had to be an easy 100 feet tall.  They were so tall you had to know what the trunk looked like to know what kind of palms they were, the crowns were so high it was hard to see them.

[TikiRick]

When I bought my first home in 1987, I wanted instant canopy and planted out about 12 correctly spaced Queens. They were not expensive, grew fast, and if taken care of are beautiful.

They DO have the bad reputation because most do not know (or care) how to maintain these beautiful palms. Mine got to be so fat and healthy, that my pool no longer got any full sun.

One of the biggest problems aside from nutritional considerations, is that they hold the dead fronds. This can be costly upkeep for most homeowners to keep them looking neat.

Personally, I love the palm...when it is well maintained.

[Tyrone]

They look good when well grown, which is a rare thing over here. They've now become a weed in QLD and NSW where wild fruit bats have taken the fruit and dropped them into rainforests where they are now naturalised. One TV show was claiming they are a "noxious" weed and should be discouraged from planting. However the definition of a noxious weed is that it is banned from growing by law, and that hasn't happened yet in Oz. Here n Perth they were not common until the late 70's early 80's but there are some very tall skinny variety ones at Perth Zoo that may be 50 yrs old. In some suburbs in Perth they are the most common plant in peoples gardens. If you look at these areas you see a scattered forest of them thru the suburbs. Almost every house has at least one.

regards

Tyrone

[madagascarbob]

Seems to me Lotus Land planted some of the first in California.

[wendisplantation]

(TikiRick @ Jun. 08 2007,08:22)

QUOTE

I wanted instant canopy and planted out about 12 correctly spaced Queens.

What is considered correct spacing on these?

I posted a pic a while back,  (but now cannot find the thread with them in it) of a local yard with very well maintained queens, all around the outside of the yard. I would say they are spaced at about 15' apart. The effect is beautiful, with only their outer edges of the fronds touching the fronds of the next one in line. Everything in this gentleman's yard is beautiful, and every time I drive by there he is out doing something in the yard.

I agree that these are very beautiful when properly maintained. I see them all over that need real care. I think most people just throw them in the ground and expect them to just be beautiful, without knowing what to do for them. It is sad, but I find that seems to be true here with CIDP as well. nearly all of them appear to have nutrient deficiencies.

[ibreakforpalms]

Thanks, I thought I wasn't crazy......well maybe a little

[Coloradoboi]

The queen palm has become widely distributed because of it's rapid growth - In a few years a new home can have mature looking landscaping.

[Walter John]

Another reason many city councils in OZ chose Syagrus romanzoffiana is because they do not drop their old fronds in a hurry so the pedestrians are not slammed on their way to work. Imagine if they were all replaced by Archontophoenix or Roystonea, that would be knockout in more ways than one.

Truthfully this is just a theory of mine.

[Tyrone]

(Wal @ Jun. 09 2007,02:07)

QUOTE

Another reason many city councils in OZ chose Syagrus romanzoffiana is because they do not drop their old fronds in a hurry so the pedestrians are not slammed on their way to work. Imagine if they were all replaced by Archontophoenix or Roystonea, that would be knockout in more ways than one.

Truthfully this is just a theory of mine.

Or even coconuts.  

[edbrown_3]

Ray,

How do you think the Queen palms got here in 1880's

I cant find any records for Jax but Henry Nehling was growing them and there was a diaspora community from Argentina.

Best regards,

Ed

[sonoranfans]

(wendisplantation @ Jun. 08 2007,10:34)

QUOTE

(TikiRick @ Jun. 08 2007,08:22)

QUOTE

I wanted instant canopy and planted out about 12 correctly spaced Queens.

What is considered correct spacing on these?

I posted a pic a while back,  (but now cannot find the thread with them in it) of a local yard with very well maintained queens, all around the outside of the yard. I would say they are spaced at about 15' apart. The effect is beautiful, with only their outer edges of the fronds touching the fronds of the next one in line. Everything in this gentleman's yard is beautiful, and every time I drive by there he is out doing something in the yard.

I agree that these are very beautiful when properly maintained. I see them all over that need real care. I think most people just throw them in the ground and expect them to just be beautiful, without knowing what to do for them. It is sad, but I find that seems to be true here with CIDP as well. nearly all of them appear to have nutrient deficiencies.

The correct spacing in the wild is very close.  The queen palm is closely related to grass according to U of A horticultural college.  I plant mine in clumps of 3, about 3-4 feet apart.  This makes them less susceptible to wind damage in AZ.  They are very popular here in AZ due to the high growth rate and the love of feather palms over fan palms by most consumers here.  Butias do better here in the dry, but the queens can give good shade in just a few years.  That said, they dont grow THAT tall here, tallest I've seen are short of 50' while many 80 foot washies are all over the valley of the sun.

[tropical1]

Ray-

I have an old catalog from Reasoner Brothers Royal Palm nurseries from 1928. The queen palm is of course listed and called cocos plumosa or plumy coconut. At the time, balled specimens 7-9 ft cost $10, 5" pots were $1.50.

Of interest, the nursery offered quite a selection of palms including latania, hyophorbe, heterospathe, arenga, archontophoenix, and of course royal palms which at the time were in the genus Oreodoxa.

Apparently, the reasoner nursery was one of the largest on the West Coast. I presume they sold quite a few queens. I may post a thread to see if anyone else has old nursery catalogs.

[Davidl]

heres a few pics  http://www.jud10.org/Courthouses/Glades/glades.htm

http://www.tommymarkham.com/Hurricane/Moore_Haven_Fl.jpg

[Cristóbal]

Yesterday i go to san diego and oceanside california. in north of san diego i see many palms burned of the freeze of january, also many queens. in south of san diego i dont see the palms burned, i take these fotos of the queens by the balboa park by the down town san diego. no damage i think these are the most tall and best queens in san diego. how old ? may be 80 years ?

 

[Cristóbal]

not queens but yes nice. howea forsteriana by the mission bay of san diego california. no damage of freeze.

[gavilan1]

Asi parecen cocos de lejos, no cierto?

[SubTropicRay]

Hi Kyle,

The Reasoner's catalogues are great.  The question of how Queen seeds/plants came to be exported from South America may never be answered.  This is likely undocumented history.

Thanks,

Ray

[_Keith]

Cristóbal has not been around for a while that I have noticed.