Sealing Wax Substitute

[Dypsisdean]

Few palms make a first impression as does Cyrtostachys renda. Many remember when they first laid eyes on a picture or the real thing. It's love at first sight until they become informed they can't grow it unless they care to move.

IMO, almost as impressive and a much easier grow is Areca vestiaria. I could get these to last until Feb. outside in SoCal before they gave up the ghost. I believe they failed due more to cumulative cold as opposed to one cold unbearable night. I would think that would give them half a chance in Central Florida. Have you guys tried it there? Or has anyone in SoCal managed to get one through a winter?

Although lacking the intense color of the 'Sealing Wax' they never the less have plenty of color. They are quite variable, ranging from solitary orange to profusely suckering red/maroon. They have a more interesting shape to the frond, and variable colors in the emergent one. And in addition they have cool stilt roots. Although almost as common in Hawaii now as 'Sealing Wax,' I hope they are being aggressively tried elsewhere.

A few pics to follow.

First one is more to the less suckering orange range of the scale.

[Dypsisdean]

Next is a profusely suckering oranged toned one in full sun.

[Dypsisdean]

Here's one leaning toward the red/maroon side but with a somewhat orange new leaf. You can also see the stilt roots in this one.

[Dypsisdean]

Here is the most red/maroon I have. Very dark new leafs and has well over fifty suckers. Too many to even get a shot of the trunks.

[Dypsisdean]

And last, just another individual with the red/maroon tendencies, but with visible trunk.

[Tyrone]

I've heard of some people keeping this one alive here in Perth for many years. (Isn't that right Jay?)

Myself, I've planted one in a protected spot that still gets some winter sun, and it's hanging in there with no obvious sign that it's going to die yet. It still looks respectable, so it's not looking like something you'd feed a horse.

I've also planted an A catechu on the north side of my house(I'm southern hem) and it is in a tent where the temps do reach 38C during a sunny winters day, and it's been pushing a spear all winter so far.

I've also got some A vestiara in my cold frame which although not growing are looking OK.

So although not in So Cal, my climate isn't too far different, and maybe I'll get them to grow here with a bit of love. I'll tell you what happens by October, as the full winter will have run its course by then.

regards

Tyrone

[The Palm Nut]

Hi Dypsisdean, great photos and one of the easiest of the Areca's to grow in the warm temperate to subtropical climate's and Iam sure will be widely spread out within these areas in a not to distant future. These are unfortunately slow growing, atleast at 32S lat. If planted where frost is rare these will perform well. Cold winds, wet feet, and temps down to 1C, shade for atleast 3months cause little effect to them. These are tough.

Tyrone you should have no problem with these, plant many, as they are slow growers and given time will look fantastic.

Mike

[bgl]

Dean,

Great topic! And I'm convinced Areca vestiaria will be an excellent alternative to Cyrtostachys renda. In the name of comparison, below are two photos.

In my mind, the C. renda is a more elegant looking palm, and also has a cleaner look. On the downside, it's somewhat slower, but not by much. Mine havn't started to produce fruit yet. Probably has something to do with our elevation (and cooler temps). The Areca vestiaria, once it begins to produce fruit (which is fairly early in its life), is actually a much more colorful palm, especially the maroon variety, because it'll have the red crownshaft, good-sized red fruit and new maroon colored fronds that keep their color for a long time. The A. vestiaria below are actually grown in full sun, which they will adjust to, but they will never look as good as the ones in partial shade. (In my defense, I've planted a number of palms that will eventually provide shade for these Arecas - it's just not happening as quickly as I would have liked!). Anyway, first the C. renda group.

[bgl]

And a few Areca vestiaria

[Kris]

Dear DypsisDean & Bo Goran,

Both your pictures of lipstick palm : sealing wax palm : Lakka Palm : C.Renda. Were terrefic. i have tried growing 4 feet specimans purchased directly from palm nurseries from banglore(karnataka) & Trivandram(kerala). they all died immedietly after our rainy season, i do not know the reason,i tried again getting grown up specimans,once again the same fate to them.

Believe me they are expensive,but i love to try again.now i have imported few seeds from whatcom seed company. and two have sprouted.i do not know their fate.and i dont think i have patience to wait for them to grow to that size.

So planning to buy grown-up speciman with all red colored stems & clumping in appearence.

[NatureGirl]

Coincidentally, I just planted two A. vestiaria in my garden in Central FL. One is the red trunked variety and the other the red leaf variety. I accidentally killed my orange crownshaft one when I gave it too much sun. I'm going to try and get another this fall. We'll see how they make it through this winter. I have an Areca triandra that has made it through two winters so far uncovered, with just slight spotting. And It has no overhead cover whatsoever.

[XYZ]

Superb discussion!

Like others here, I concur that the better forms of Areca vestiaria compare very favorably with Cyrtostachys renda and are infinitely more amenable to cultivation in borderline regions. Lipsticks of all sizes are readily available here in Guatemala at prices that would surprise people outside of the tropics, yet the palm is a loser for the cool tropics; it mopes here in the capital for years before starting to grow. It is agonizingly slow in early youth even down on the coast, but my experience is that once you get a clear red crownshaft and plenty of suckers, they tend to speed up noticeably and show acceptable growth rates for a palm. I also grow the two commonly available color forms of A. vestiaria, but definitely favor those with maroon emergent leaves. The young plants that I have of this form are very fast, sucker in youth, and develop deep a red cs right from the git-go. Also, based on an admittedly small sample (10 orange cs/26 maroon el), I find that the maroons appear to be more markedly more vigorous under my conditions.

I am lobbying several commercial grower colleagues here to discourage local gardeners from purchasing C. renda for town, since they perform miserably, and may give people the wrong impression about its incredible landscape "shock" value in a truly tropical setting. I agree that pushing high-color A. vestiaria for cooler tropical settings is both wise and profitable for specialty nurseries, and that once the general public realizes how forgiving this palm is in areas that would snuff a lipstick in days, its popularity will soar.

Cheerio,

SJ

[SubTropicRay]

Fantastic photos of gorgeous palms. I actually prefer A. vestiaria over Cyrtostachys.

[Robert Lee Riffle]

In my experience it's not the low winter temps in the southern half of this peninsula; it's the dry season that is the real problem.  The species needs constant rain forest conditions.  I've managed to kill two since I moved here in 2000, BOTH of them from neglect (lack of water) in the dry season.  And because of the sandy soil in this area, even a mulch and part shade in winter are not enough to allow neglecting irrigation in the DESERT SEASON of south FL!!

[SubTropicRay]

Hi RLR,

Keep it in a container my friend.  The containers with the high drainage holes are best.  Besides, when 1989 comes knocking again, you'll be glad it's in a container.  Did I say 1989?....sorry about that.  I forgot about the global warming thing.

Ray

[CFL-Dave]

Ill give this one a try here in Central Florida zone 9a.1st post on this board,but have been on it all the time the past year.I just placed an order with Jeff at Floribunda this morning,so Ill definately add the Areca Vestiaria to the order,as I see its one that he offers.Ive got many microclimate spots,so Im sure its worth a shot.Ive carried Adonidias,Veitchias,Coconuts,and others similiar in cold hardiness in the ground over 2 winters so far,so Im getting used to the protection work thats necessary.Forced air kerosene heaters,grove heaters,christmas lights....etc... I thought I was too insane to post on here growing what I do in Bushnell,FL,then I see the posts from 'Bobby in NY",and feel that I have regained enough of my sanity to maybe post something without the men in the white jackets coming to take me away for my own safety.....Dave

[Robert Lee Riffle]

Ray, the first one I killed was in a container--a heavy clustering red c.s. specimen.  Went off to Baton Rouge, Louisiana (drove--I know: INSANE) to do a talk thing in Feb. 2001.  Put the container under an oak but, when I got back a week later, the red beauty was (as Dave would say) totally "Norwegian Blue!!"

Death of the second one (large, clustering orange) was PLANTED on north side of house, getting sun only in the mornings.  Well, you KNOW how late the rainy season was this year and kust about every waking hour of June was devoted to dealing with the dying old forum and the creation of this'n.  Every "night" around 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. I'd remember that I needed to water but was too tired and the lights out there are not sufficient.  I pulled the brown spears out of the hollow trunks about a week ago. Every other palm near the vestiara (except for the small Verschaffeltia)  survived well, including the pinangas!  So, I blame ALLa yawl for my palm losses this year!  ;-))

[redant]

Funny topic for me as I just moved my sun burnt Areca vestiaria to a much shadier location today.

I have mine for years, was in part shade till Wilma, then full sun which it seems to hate. Today under a nice oak canopy, hope that helps. RLR, good info to know I'll keep that in mind.

[SunnyFl]

(Robert Lee Riffle @ Jul. 29 2006,17:39)

QUOTE

 So, I blame ALLa yawl for my palm losses this year!  ;-))

ALL y'all ??

Uh-oh. We all know what that means: each and every one of us hehe.  

I'm sorry about your vesties though.  Losing them really really hurts.  And there was nothing you could do - you had your hands full.

My losses, however, were due to my own ignorance.  I had them in containers.  The first one was outdoors in a "protected" location.  I thought I was using the right procedure.  Water only after the soil is totally dry.  Umm, sometimes it got reeeeealy dry.  And the vestie was toast.

My second one I kept in a nice humid room in the house - yep, the loo.  I kept it watered.  I took care of it.  And it up n' died anyway.  Along with my prized maroon-leaf philodendron cutting.

Turns out that is the worst room in the house to keep plants, due to bacteria.  Thanks to someone on the board for pointing that out.

Ray, I'm going to agree with you on preferring the vestie.  Those maroon leaf types with the contrasting red trunks - and the lush areca foliage when it's not in too much sun - wow.

[bgl]

Another area, where IMO A. vestiaria is superior in looks to the C. renda, is a small palm. You have to wait for a LONG time to see red in a small renda. With the vestiaria, you've got nice color pretty much from day one! Here's a group of young vestiarias, probably expecting to be potted up soon....

BTW, NatureGirl, you mentioned "One is the red trunked variety and the other the red leaf variety". As far as I'm concerned, this is one and the same!? How big are they?

[Dypsisdean]

Robert,

I learned many years ago that if a plant depended on me remembering to hand water it.................well, it had a limited life span.

I won't plant anything these days unless I first have some type (even temporary) of irrigation system set up. Even if it's a hose (or cheap polytubing) with a few microsprinklers scattered about attached to a cheap timer. Then all I have to remember is to keep the batteries in the timers fresh.

In SoCal, it may not look 100% professional, but I can almost water my entire 1/2 acre and every plant on it by pressing one button on the main timer. It makes life so much easier.

[Kamipalms]

Heres an up to date pic (taken this morning) of my little A. vestiara

Like every one has suggested, they do seem to be more cold tollerant than once thought.

I'd have to also agree that they are much nicer than C.renda ( cause I can't grow C.renda) but quite slow growers.

For this little fella above, this is the third unprotected ( other than shadecloth) winter it has seen with very minor cold damage if at all.

To compare, I have a few small potted bottles which are completly exposed to the wraith of winter and these have spotted due to cold. Coldest temp recorded here this winter is 4C and wet.....yuck!

J.

[Zac in NC]

(Robert Lee Riffle @ Jul. 29 2006,17:39)

QUOTE

"Norwegian Blue!!"

Its not Dead, its just sleeping.

[paulgila]

its PINING for the fjords!!!

[NatureGirl]

Bo, one has only a red crownshaft with 'green leaves', the other has the maroon(not red) new leaf, but I guess it does have the red crownshaft as well. Mine are small, planted as 3 gal plants, standing only about a foot tall, but both have alot of suckers. And they are both under cover of a large Hyphaene for protection and shade. Also about your seedlings...did you grow those from seeds from your own plants? I sprouted some seeds a while back and they are all slowly dieing, any ideas? I don't know if I'm keeping them too wet(I don't think so), too dry (maybe) or if it's just a case of damping off. You don't seem to have that problem.

[bgl]

NatureGirl,

As long as the soil is well draining there's no such thing as 'too wet' for these palms, so not sure what the problem is with your seedlings. The two palms you have may very well be siblings. You'll get both green and maroon colored plants from the same parent plant. Here's a photo of some of my smaller seedlings, before being individually planted. All the seedlings in the two closest trays are from the very same palm, and as can be seen there are both green and maroon. They will maintain their color as they grow bigger. And yes, I'm germinating these myself from my own plants. They are extremely easy, and will actually self-germinate under the tree when the seeds fall.

Bo-Göran

[NatureGirl]

OOH I see, same palms just some come up green and some are maroon colored. Is it possible for the green type to have seedlings that come up maroon? Or is it only the other way around?

[Howeadypsis]

Fantastic colours on those palms!

[Kris]

Dear Bo Goran,

Picture in post no 26,was simply superb !

Great work !  

I love cluster of young sapling of palms.

Love,

Kris (to all my friends)

[bgl]

Thank you Larry and Kris!

NatureGirl, I don't have the answer yet (whether you can get maroon ones from the green). However, since I'm getting both green AND maroon from the same seedbatch (from a maroon parent), this seems to be a genetic trait that shows up in certain individuals (actually a majority). Thus, I'd think that trait is also in the green ones, and when these are mature I think there's a good chance that some of the offspring from those palms will be maroon. I should know in another 7 years or so...

Bo-Göran

[Trópico]

This is a great thread. Both of the palms are among my top five. First, Cyrtostachys renda:

In my opinion the red is much more vivid than A. vestiaria. I can't grow it (at least without special care) but I still like it. I am sure it's beauty is kept protected by it's inability to be grown outside of the tropics. Otherwise Joe and Jane Mainstream will buy 10 at Walmart and use them as a hedge to cover their AC units or would already be far more overused than Queens in new Homeowner's association-controlled subdivisions. We don't want that to happen to the holy grail of palm growing, do we??? Those are for truly dedicated palmaholics. I am attempting about 5 of them in pots. Let's see what the destiny holds for them.

Second, Areca vestiaria. More varied in shades of red/maroon/orange... I wish I had one. I personally find the Areca genus as one of my favorites. I want!!!

[aussiearoids]

I saw  Areca vestiaria in North Sulawesi many years ago , they were growing around a lake in very boggy conditions .

[Gileno Machado]

Bo and Naturegirl...

That's interesting information. I guess both Rarepalmseeds and Ortanique sell Areca vestiaria seeds as 2 different subspecies, and the "maroon" variety does seem to have a different colour since the early stages.

BTW, about the grown up vestiarias that I've seen around here, they all show the same bright orange hue in our climate. This is not an easy species to adapt in our climate/soil here, wonder why...C. renda, on the other hand, grow like weeds and are not so demanding plants (except for H2O naturally !).

[The Palm Nut]

Here are pictures of the five I have growing at various spots in the garden ranging from soils which are heavy and wet but warm, to heavy and wet and cold in winter. And of course the largest one which is growing in a well draining humus rich soil in sheltered warm position. The largest one is about 10 years old and the others from 2 to 5 years old.

[The Palm Nut]

another

[The Palm Nut]

Another

[The Palm Nut]

Another

[The Palm Nut]

Another

[Moose]

[Manolitus]

Moose,

You must be psychic. Over this past winter, I lost all my red sealing wax. I thought I had done enough to protect them, but to no avail. ( I actually live pretty close to you, in south Grove right off LeJeune on Malaga ).

I have decided NEVER to buy or plant another red sealing wax here in Miami. Unlike the tropics, they are expensive.

The problem is that my experience with the vestiaria's has not been much better. But the problem with them here in Miami, is the soil, I am convinced. Our weather is not the problem. I have, however, decided to give vestiaria's one more shot. Extra deep hole, overload on nutrients and plenty of water. AND as much protection from the sun as possible.

As far as looks are concerned: the trunk color of a nice red sealing wax is superior. Having just come from Cairns in the tropical north of Australia, I can tell you that their color is out of this world ( few palms make me think of true tropical !! ). The Leaves of the vestiaria however are far more elegant and majestic.

Hybrid anyone ?

Manny