Can anyone tell me a simple way to fertilize palms without actual fertilizer?

[naraj]

Can anyone tell me a simple way to fertilize palms without actual fertilizer? I’m currently in Africa, have no access to anything at all except dirt, sand, compost and plant debris. The soil appears to be fairly rich/fertile here already, but not excessively, and I have some newly-purchased yellowish Dypsis cabadae/lutescens which need major nutritional assistance. Thanks!

[sandgroper]

Wee in a bucket then fill it with water and use that.

[naraj]

6 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Wee in a bucket then fill it with water and use that.

Was that supposed to be funny?

[Xenon]

21 minutes ago, naraj said:

Was that supposed to be funny?

Diluted urine is a great fertilizer. Sterile and free. Will offer easily available nutrients while the compost and plant debris breaks down.

You could also try to make a "weed tea" by fermenting tender weeds or grass clippings in a bucket of water. Dilute with water. 

Wood ashes are a good source of minerals, especially potassium but watch out for any pH imbalance.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Xenon

[naraj]

Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks for the info. I’ll try it!

[sandgroper]

3 hours ago, naraj said:

Was that supposed to be funny?

Not at all, it works, try it.

[naraj]

2 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Not at all, it works, try it.

Thanks! Sorry, thought you were being sarcastic. Will do. 

[sandgroper]

Hahaha, no worries mate. It works really well on veggies too but most people won't eat them if you do that!

[naraj]

3 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Hahaha, no worries mate. It works really well on veggies too but most people won't eat them if you do that!

Haha! Thanks again.

[Gonzer]

Years ago someone started a post about the benefits of pi$$ing on your palms in lieu of standard fertilizers. http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/37143-urine-makes-a-great-palm-fertilizer/&do=findComment&comment=578755

If you're out in the yard, and the neighbors aren't looking, fire away. It's the green thing to do.

[Manalto]

3 hours ago, sandgroper said:

...most people won't eat them if you do that!

INSERTION: most people won't eat them if they know that you do that!

[sur4z]

My dogs have been keeping my palms healthy for years.

[Tyrone]

Are there chickens nearby? I take it most places in Africa keep chickens. If they're in a coop with a perch where they roost then collect the manure up and maybe if it's fresh dilute it with a bit of water or add it to a weed tea like mentioned earlier. Palms love chicken manure but fresh manure undiluted may be a bit much.

[Rickybobby]

There is a agriculture fertilizer called “urea” 46-0-0 and it is a organic synthetic made out of mammal urine 

[naraj]

Great suggestions. Thanks! How effective are these organic techniques in comparison to the 8-2-12 I used to overload my palms with in Florida?

Edited October 2, 2018 by naraj
Typo

[Matt in OC]

Great suggestions in here.

[edric]

Greenganic, Ed   mark.batliner@greenganic.com   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhI7aPd9fhA

[Gonzer]

Be careful with Urea, it'll burn if not applied correctly.

[Rickybobby]

44 minutes ago, Gonzer said:

Be careful with Urea, it'll burn if not applied correctly.

I just used it as an example of the pee lol I do use it on my lawn no problem in warm rainy season you wanna cut your lawn every 2 days. Use that

[Tyrone]

With urea most of the available nitrogen gasses off as nitrogen gas which is a major component of the atmosphere anyway. It does green up lawn but it's far from a complete fertiliser and doesn't feed the soil one bit. 

If nitrogen is what you're after though and you've got a bit of time, you can grow a "manure crop" of leguminous plants like anything in the pea and bean group of plants like lupins. They grab nitrogen from the atmosphere and hold it in nodules in their roots in conjunction with a root bacteria. Once that crop has grown, you can slash it to the ground which forms a mulch and leave the roots in the ground. Then plant into that ground. The nitrogen is their still on the old roots and is plant available. The soil microbes will be there too, which is a big plus.

[Laaz]

Ok, who's paying my bail? I just got arrested for for indecent exposure & public intoxication!

[Manalto]

LOL - Once you shplain to the cops that you're greening up the palms of Charleston - and beer is your fuel - I'm sure they'll understand.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Manalto

[Stelios]

Coffee grounds should also be good especially for acid loving plants. It was discussed before here on PT. If you have access to free quantities it could work (check also coffee grounds on wikipedia).

[naraj]

1 hour ago, Stelios said:

Coffee grounds should also be good especially for acid loving plants. It was discussed before here on PT. If you have access to free quantities it could work (check also coffee grounds on wikipedia).

Thanks. Do you happen to know which nutritional qualities coffee grounds have that palms like?

[Manalto]

7 minutes ago, naraj said:

Thanks. Do you happen to know which nutritional qualities coffee grounds have that palms like?

i found this -

https://www.growveg.com/guides/a-common-sense-guide-to-using-coffee-grounds-in-the-garden/

Does manure have the same beneficial effect on palms as it does on woody plants? I've had great luck with seaweed, too.(on woodies)

[Stelios]

According to wikipedia they are rich in potassium magnesium and phosphorus. They are also known to slowly release nitrogen into the soil.

[naraj]

Perfect. Thanks guys.

[DoomsDave]

23 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

There is a agriculture fertilizer called “urea” 46-0-0 and it is a organic synthetic made out of mammal urine 

Use that stuff with GREAT, ENORMOUS CARE. I used some, at the suggestion of our beloved @BS Man about Palmsto kill a Eucalyptus tree that refused to die after being painted with both straight glyphosate and trycophyr. It worked! A real Nitrogen Bomb. I wouldn't use it as a fertilizer in the garden, except (maybe) to remedy extreme nitrogen deficiency, or to really push compost into composting.

Burn baby burn

Nitro infernooooooo

Burn baby burn

[etc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M

[DoomsDave]

@naraj! Whoa! AFRICA? Where? Would you mind sharing that? Sounds like a massive adventure in itself.

You're in a situation that's a big blessing in disguise. While chemical fertilizers have their good points, they can get expensive and also pollute natural water sources. I use slow-release types, except when kicking something that needs a kick to get growing.

Florida, I recall (and as others have posted) has places with monumentally poor soil, which often doesn't really even deserve the dignity of the term (Rocky Horrah'). Sounds like your present place has nice, naturally fertile soil. Soil is the result of actions by microbes, insects, worms, etc., on inorganic and organic materials in the ground. The best way to think of it, is you grow your soil as you grow your garden. Take care of your soil and the garden will at least partly take care of itself, at least from the fertility perspective.

All of the organic wastes derived from animals and plants can be used. Pee, poop, animal and human, will work, though MD's get a bit fidgety when people poop in the garden. If you're near a place where critters poop, you can gather it and: (a) pile it away from the beaten path, cover with dirt and keep moist, and it will rot down fast, and, best of all, rot other organics with it; or (b) mix it into the top layer of soil, though too much can be a problem with manure from grazing animals like cattle. If you go with (a), periodically dig the rotted stuff out, and mix it in your dirt, or use it as mulch. Go ahead and use wood ashes; it takes A LOT to increase the PH much, though do be careful if you're in a spot with alkaline water.

While my garden isn't organic, I pretty much bury anything organic I can find. Including dead animals, food that went bad in the fridge or freezer, dead leaves, branches, etc., and lots of wood ashes.

Hope this helps, and do tell us a bit about your corner of Africa, if you would. I'm dying of curiosity to know more.

[DoomsDave]

2 hours ago, Stelios said:

Coffee grounds should also be good especially for acid loving plants. It was discussed before here on PT. If you have access to free quantities it could work (check also coffee grounds on wikipedia).

Plus used tea bags, grain or nut hulls, moldy bread or stored grain, orange, watermelon, lemon and other fruit rinds, meat gone bad, and so many more.

[Manalto]

Thanks, Dave. I haven't thrown away kitchen scraps in 40 years; they go in the garden. Why did I think palms were so much different from woodies (dicots) in their nutritional needs? I guess it's because someone (at the Cooperative Extension) warned me that because my sabal is in the lawn, I should be careful of getting lawn fertilizer at the base of it. (Also, fertilize my lawn? Good one! Who cares about lawns?)

Edited October 3, 2018 by Manalto
clarity

[DoomsDave]

41 minutes ago, Manalto said:

Thanks, Dave. Why did I think palms were so much different from woodies (dicots) in their nutritional needs? I guess it's because someone (at the Cooperative Extension) warned me that because my sabal is in the lawn, I should be careful of getting lawn fertilizer at the base of it. (Also, fertilize my lawn? Good one! Who cares about lawns?)

Palms can be different from woodies. Some dicots, like Azeleas, have to have acid soil, for example. Palms, as a group, aren't that fussy about things like Ph. Palms are supposed to really appreciate potassium ("K" in the fert label), which is the big nute in @naraj's fertilizer.

I more or less agree that you shouldn't give palms too much lawn fertilizer, since that tends to be really really heavy on nitrogen (N) and low on potassium. Oh, yeah, I used to have a lawn. Those lawn mowers are so noisy and annoying. And they won't grow under my jungle anyway. Except maybe Saint Augustine grass.

[palmislandRandy]

Keep "litter" in your litter trapping palms. I've been putting banana peels in the crown of my dwarf Areca & others for years.

 

-Randy

[BS Man about Palms]

12 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Use that stuff with GREAT, ENORMOUS CARE. I used some, at the suggestion of our beloved @BS Man about Palmsto kill a Eucalyptus tree that refused to die after being painted with both straight glyphosate and trycophyr. It worked! A real Nitrogen Bomb. I wouldn't use it as a fertilizer in the garden, except (maybe) to remedy extreme nitrogen deficiency, or to really push compost into composting.

Burn baby burn

Nitro infernooooooo

Burn baby burn

[etc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sY2rjxq6M

Never heard back from you on that Dave! Glad to know it worked!!

[joe_OC]

12 hours ago, Manalto said:

Thanks, Dave. I haven't thrown away kitchen scraps in 40 years; they go in the garden. Why did I think palms were so much different from woodies (dicots) in their nutritional needs? I guess it's because someone (at the Cooperative Extension) warned me that because my sabal is in the lawn, I should be careful of getting lawn fertilizer at the base of it. (Also, fertilize my lawn? Good one! Who cares about lawns?)

Grass fertilizer NPK ratios are the same as palms...In fact, I know palm growers who use grass fertilizers with added micros.

 

[GottmitAlex]

On 10/1/2018, 9:55:56, naraj said:

Can anyone tell me a simple way to fertilize palms without actual fertilizer? I’m currently in Africa, have no access to anything at all except dirt, sand, compost and plant debris. The soil appears to be fairly rich/fertile here already, but not excessively, and I have some newly-purchased yellowish Dypsis cabadae/lutescens which need major nutritional assistance. Thanks!

What type of palm are you referencing?

Wxample: Cocos nucifera: Salt will do it.

Which palm are you referring to? (Hate to end sentences in prepositions). I'm on my cell. Fyi.

 

 

 

 

[Manalto]

5 hours ago, joe_OC said:

Grass fertilizer NPK ratios are the same as palms...In fact, I know palm growers who use grass fertilizers with added micros.

 

Thank you, Joe, for helping to demystify palms for me. I wonder, then, what the warning was against using it. I'll send the Extension agent an email - and put my tax dollars to work.

[Manalto]

I heard back from the Extension agent. This was his reply:

" Some of our lawn fertilizers can be harmful depending on if we are using a very high concentration of fertilizer for our lawns. A lot of times homeowners like to use a little more fertilizer because they think it will help the grass even more. We should always go by the label of the fertilizer. Certain palms can be very sensitive to nutrient deficiencies and also high levels of nutrients."

I have worked at the Cooperative Extension too (Connecticut) and I know what it's like to deal with the typical homeowner whose mantra is, "If some is good, more must be better" so I understand his motivation for making the above statement. (I guess I haven't yet proven myself to be other than a typical homeowner.) I could have used more specifics, since he knows the palm is a Sabal palmetto.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Manalto

[joe_OC]

12 minutes ago, Manalto said:

I heard back from the Extension agent. This was his reply:

" Some of our lawn fertilizers can be harmful depending on if we are using a very high concentration of fertilizer for our lawns. A lot of times homeowners like to use a little more fertilizer because they think it will help the grass even more. We should always go by the label of the fertilizer. Certain palms can be very sensitive to nutrient deficiencies and also high levels of nutrients."

I have worked at the Cooperative Extension too (Connecticut) and I know what it's like to deal with the typical homeowner whose mantra is, "If some is good, more must be better" so I understand his motivation for making the above statement. (I guess I haven't yet proven myself to be other than a typical homeowner.) I could have used more specifics, since he knows the palm is a Sabal palmetto.

That’s a whole different issue.  If you use the correct amount of fertilizer, it won’t burn, even if it’s urea based.  Like I said, you will need to add micro nutrients like manganese.  It depends on the fertilizer.

[Manalto]

I've had some additional communication with the Extension agent this morning on another topic. It's clear now that he's just phoning it in. He'll still pick up his paycheck on Friday. Disappointing.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Manalto