Date Palms in NC/VA

[NC_Palms]

Is anyone growing date palms in North Carolina or Virginia? 

[kinzyjr]

There are some Canary Island Date Palms sporadically throughout NC, but true date palms really only do well out on outer banks of NC.  Even in the best areas of Virginia Beach, a true date palm would be a very large stretch for even few years.

[NC_Palms]

23 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

There are some Canary Island Date Palms sporadically throughout NC, but true date palms really only do well out on outer banks of NC.  Even in the best areas of Virginia Beach, a true date palm would be a very large stretch for even few years.

I have seen some Canary Island date palms on Hatteras island, which I was surprised to see them so far north. I have also seen a few in the Morehead City area. 

Could a true date palm fair well without protection in coastal NC? 

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, NC_Palms said:

I have seen some Canary Island date palms on Hatteras island, which I was surprised to see them so far north. I have also seen a few in the Morehead City area. 

Could a true date palm fair well without protection in coastal NC? 

Even the Outer Banks are stretching it.  Nags Head has gone below 0F at points and Wilmington has had 0F, so at some point, you're looking at a 100% kill in an east coast climate.  Cape Hatteras has a record low of 6F, so that is about as close as you're going to get to a fully suitable climate in NC.  For true date palms on the east coast, you're looking at problems below 20F and much bigger problems if it goes below 15F.  In arid climates, they seem to perform much better in regard to cold hardiness.

Zone-wise, the outer banks (9a) are supposed to be suitable for true date palms, but zones and the eastern US don't hold up very well.

[NC_Palms]

On 11/6/2018 23:52:24, kinzyjr said:

Even the Outer Banks are stretching it.  Nags Head has gone below 0F at points and Wilmington has had 0F, so at some point, you're looking at a 100% kill in an east coast climate.  Cape Hatteras has a record low of 6F, so that is about as close as you're going to get to a fully suitable climate in NC.  For true date palms on the east coast, you're looking at problems below 20F and much bigger problems if it goes below 15F.  In arid climates, they seem to perform much better in regard to cold hardiness.

Zone-wise, the outer banks (9a) are supposed to be suitable for true date palms, but zones and the eastern US don't hold up very well.

I wonder how the Outer Banks date palms handled this winter. I am thinking of growing one in eastern NC. I will probably need to cover it when the lows become dangerous. 

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 6/11/2018 at 11:52 PM, kinzyjr said:

Even the Outer Banks are stretching it.  Nags Head has gone below 0F at points and Wilmington has had 0F, so at some point, you're looking at a 100% kill in an east coast climate.  Cape Hatteras has a record low of 6F, so that is about as close as you're going to get to a fully suitable climate in NC.  For true date palms on the east coast, you're looking at problems below 20F and much bigger problems if it goes below 15F.  In arid climates, they seem to perform much better in regard to cold hardiness.

Zone-wise, the outer banks (9a) are supposed to be suitable for true date palms, but zones and the eastern US don't hold up very well.

Its not like 6f is the average, the date palms wont live for 7 trillion years.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 6/11/2018 at 11:52 PM, kinzyjr said:

Even the Outer Banks are stretching it.  Nags Head has gone below 0F at points and Wilmington has had 0F, so at some point, you're looking at a 100% kill in an east coast climate.  Cape Hatteras has a record low of 6F, so that is about as close as you're going to get to a fully suitable climate in NC.  For true date palms on the east coast, you're looking at problems below 20F and much bigger problems if it goes below 15F.  In arid climates, they seem to perform much better in regard to cold hardiness.

Zone-wise, the outer banks (9a) are supposed to be suitable for true date palms, but zones and the eastern US don't hold up very well.

The OBX are certainly far from zone 9a, in January 2018 Corolla had lows of 14 and other days with 16f, 40 minutes south, Kitty Hawk had some lows of 14f as well as many lows in the higher teens.  Over an hour south in the southern OBX in Avon,  the lowest was still 14 -15, as well as a few in the 17 - 19 range.   No Phoenix species has survived long term unprotected north of Hatteras island in NC, and even in the 2018 winter, some Butia and Sabals perished and most had very noticeable frond damage.  

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 6/11/2018 at 10:33 PM, NC_Palms said:

I have seen some Canary Island date palms on Hatteras island, which I was surprised to see them so far north. I have also seen a few in the Morehead City area. 

Could a true date palm fair well without protection in coastal NC? 

Hatteras has some Canaries that have been there almost 20 years, some possibly longer but can't verify.  I took these photos in 2019 less than 2 years after the bad cold in January 2018 and they already were mostly recovered.   All unprotected

This one is in Buxton on the east end of the island, nice sheltered location from the ocean and sound.

Hatteras Landing near the Ocracoke Ferry Launch, has been there since at least 2007 according to streetview.

Also Hatteras Landing, found a photo on a realty site from 2004 and it was already there.  Has some exposure to the Pamlico sound

Also in Hatteras, direct exposure to the sound, and plenty of salt burn on the fronds.  Has been there since at least 2007.

Frisco NC, Also present in a 2007 streetview.

Pair in Frisco (Not my photo)

Edited January 12, 2021 by Mr.SamuraiSword

[climate change virginia]

maybe a dacty x sylvestris might survive the outer banks

Edited January 12, 2021 by climate change virginia

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

1 hour ago, climate change virginia said:

maybe a dacty x sylvestris might survive the outer banks

Dactylifera tend to do worse in coastal NC than CIDP. There was a couple big ones and a few others in Ocean Isle beach closer to the SC line but 2018 killed them all.  The two big ones lasted 11 years.   Im sure a few stragglers survived that I am not aware of. Sylvesters seem way less common than CIDP and while a little less hardy I believe there are a couple that survived 2018 in the Ocean Isle - Topsail beach region.   CIDP is the hardiest of the widely available Phoenix palms and the chances of one surviving even a few years unprotected in the OBX north of Hatteras are very slim.  

Edited January 12, 2021 by Mr.SamuraiSword

[kinzyjr]

20 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

The OBX are certainly far from zone 9a, in January 2018 Corolla had lows of 14 and other days with 16f, 40 minutes south, Kitty Hawk had some lows of 14f as well as many lows in the higher teens.  Over an hour south in the southern OBX in Avon,  the lowest was still 14 -15, as well as a few in the 17 - 19 range.   No Phoenix species has survived long term unprotected north of Hatteras island in NC, and even in the 2018 winter, some Butia and Sabals perished and most had very noticeable frond damage.  

They're 8b on the USDA Map, but they have crossed the threshold for 9a recently with some of the milder winters (see attached spreadsheet).  Either way, I agree.  Phoenix sp. is a stretch to say the least:

202101121735_NagsHeadNC_AvgAnnualLow.xlsx

[climate change virginia]

On 6/10/2018 at 10:36 PM, NC_Palms said:

Is anyone growing date palms in North Carolina or Virginia? 

I mean I have medjool seedlings but the ones outside are probably gonna die but the ones in the garage have no damage so those might survive

Edited January 12, 2021 by climate change virginia

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

8 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

They're 8b on the USDA Map, but they have crossed the threshold for 9a recently with some of the milder winters (see attached spreadsheet).  Either way, I agree.  Phoenix sp. is a stretch to say the least:

202101121735_NagsHeadNC_AvgAnnualLow.xlsx 12.71 kB · 0 downloads

Of course some winters will cross the threshold both colder and warmer then the zone designation as zomes are based on an average temp, the 2012 (most recent) map averages out temps from the 70s to the 2000s.  But as recent as 2018 Nags head had a 14 degree low, with other days in the 16.range so it goes both ways. Some years Charelston gets almost zone 10 winters and in a few others it gets a high 8b.   In my opinion the best representation of what can grow in a zone is taking the coldest winter temp in the last 10 years and applying that or maybe averaging the two lowest.  Also the OBX is a very different climate from say Ocean Isle beach or Bald Head Island. Being so far out to sea the winds are harsher and the thin barrier islands have less protected spots to plant away from salt spray and wind exposure as its mostly sand dunes with some scattered maritime forests. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Mr.SamuraiSword

[climate change virginia]

I am growing date palms they are seedlings right now they made it through January they seem to be pretty hardy to 25f they are going throught the real test on monday which is going to be 13F

[NorCalKing]

2 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

I am growing date palms they are seedlings right now they made it through January they seem to be pretty hardy to 25f they are going throught the real test on monday which is going to be 13F

Good luck. CIDP's? sure. True Date Palms, not a chance.