scientific names or 'common names'

[Palmy]

I know the majority of people on this board, and probably every palm meeting, uses scientific names rather than common names. I am curious at how many people know practically every palm by the scientific name? I also am curious to know how many people know how to spell them. If I was to use the scientific name more often and yet have mistakes would that be ok? The mistakes will be somewhat major, but its kinda annoying looking up in the books every time I need a name or looking on the web.  Or... Do you think looking every time will actually make me learn it? Just a curiosity question. Thanks

Here are some palms which I somewhat know vaguely. There are tons of mistakes.

- Arenga engliri

- Bismarkia nobolis

- parajubaea cocosides

- wodybicarfia (I dont even know if you can tell what im talking about)

- phoenix  robillini

- dypsis baronii

These are off the top of my head, no anything. Is this ok? I think now that Im looking at it I should continue to look in the books.

What do you think?

[palmmermaid]

Palmy,

I use scientific names because the common names are too variable and make no sense in some cases.  The same palm may have different common names based on local traditions.  And in some cases may even lead you to the wrong genus (The common areca is really a Dypsis).  Fortunately my mother badgered me into taking 4 years of Latin in high school and I picked up some basic Greek in college.  That certainly makes the names easier for me to spell!  A basic knowledge of the languages can also help with identification.  For example if you know grandiflora means big flower it can help, just as grandifolia means big leaf.  If a name ends in ii, it was probably named for a person, a botanist or a patron.  You see veitchii in many different types of plants, not just palms.  Sometimes I am stumped by the common names people use and have to look up the common name.

As far as spelling goes, I can decipher all your names.  I think most of us can get it.  But using the scientific names can help eliminate confusion.

[ghar41]

(Palmy @ May 25 2007,01:40)

QUOTE

I know the majority of people on this board, and probably every palm meeting, uses scientific names rather than common names.

What do you think?

I like to use Scientific names also, for a couple of reasons.  

One, it does reduce confusion.

Two, there are sooo many palms, and the vast majority of them don't have common names.

I have a palm friend that also struggles with the latin in genus and species terms.  No amount of studying seems to help, and he sometimes feels intimidated.  The only advice I have ever been able to come up with is, "grow things you like, it really doesn't matter what they're called."

Now having said this, I often refer to "King" palms just because "Archontophoenix cunninghamiana" takes a lot of air, and is hard to repeat.  Of course, Australians know it (or other Archontophoenix sp.) as the "Piccabeen" or "Bangalow," taking us back to #1.  

Thing is, eventually we all figure out which plant we're talking about so we can get back to what we REALLY enjoy.

Growing palms.  

[paulgila]

i would think that all palms have common names used by the locals,we just don't know about them

[osideterry]

This forum seems to be inventing abbreviated names along the way. CIDP. Par-tor-tor. Archo. Bizzy. Jub.

We're all pretty forgiving about misspelled names here.

[bgl]

Palmy,

Make an attempt to learn the scientific names. You won't regret this, and it will really help you in the long run. Simply study books about palms, and gradually you'll pick up the correct spelling. As far as Paul's comment that they all probably have common names where they grow in the wild, this is probably a truth with a lot of modification. Take Pritchardia - this does have a common name here in Hawaii: Loulu. But that name was applied by the Hawaiians to ALL Pritchardias. They didn't recognize different species. To them it was all the same. I can only assume that the same holds true in many other places where there are plenty of palms, such as Madagascar. And in any case, even if each species did/does have a common name in its own area, those common names, for the most part, are NOT going to be used here in the USA (or Australia, or Europe).

Bo-Göran

[PALM MOD]

Zach,

I don't think there is any question that correctly spelled scientific names is the best way to communicate. In addition, it is the only method that will yield complete search results. If a name is spelled wrong, it will not appear in a search of the forum (or anywhere for that matter), and I hope to have a more comprehensive search feature for the forum soon. If you simply and quickly placed those names that you listed in Google, it would provide you with the correct spelling. As long as you are fairly close it will find the correct spelling, and you were only off by a letter or two. So it would have taken you less than 10 seconds per species to get the correct spelling. No need to open a book. How do I know this? Because I can't spell half the names myself, and have to check the spelling often. Besides, how would it look if the moderator spelled everything wrong? And I can testify, that by looking things up, and using the names, you can't help but learn them.

Having said that, I realize scientific names are very intimidating. Once you learn how to spell them, then there is the fear factor of using them in conversation for the first time. You realize there is a lot of variation in the way different people pronounce them. But you soon realize that we are all a forgiving bunch, because will all confront the same hurdle. It only sounds like the veterans are "name snobs" because it has become second nature.

So it will always be better to use a common name, a mispelled name, even a wrong name, rather than to remain silent, because exchanging ideas is the priority. But if you wish to communicate accurately and efficiently, there is no substitute for a correctly spelled scientific name.

[Walter John]

One of my old pet topics. I soon found my way through all of this. Study the palm scientific names by reading them and sounding them out, there is a document somewhere on the net which I found perfect to practise them. I still managed to fall into my own way of saying some of them though.

Ar-cont-oh-fee-nix, cunning-ham-ee-ar-nah

Yo-han-is-teez-man-ee-ah, al-ti-fronds

Fee-nix, ar-is-on-ah  ???

I actually suggested once we should try to internationalise common names, ha, im bloody possible. Too many nurserymen out there wanting there own fix on selling plants. Example, I have seen Dip-sis, ba-rone-ee-eye (Dypsis baronii) sold as the "red baron" palm. Chambeyronia has sold as "flamethrower", All the Archontophoenix sold as "king" palms in USA but never given that name here in their place of origin. Even here Archontophoenix cunninghamian sold as either "bangalow" or "picabeen". Not to mention "date" palms of which there is many species. We refer to Syagrus romanzoffiana as "cocos" palms in OZ, as they were once scientifically named "Cocos plumosa" and the name has stuck. The craziest one for me though has to be "Areca" palms in the USA for Dypsis lutescens. We call them "Golden Cane" palms here and I guarantee that has also stuck forever, So, try and skip these common names even though it's hard at times, it's a lazy thing really, that's my excuse. Palms do evoke a laid back feel I suppose.

Let us all try and stick to the scientific names whenever you can and what I find best in posting on this board is to include the scientific name in brackets after whatever common name you choose to write or vice versa.

There, that's tired me out, my scientific name is Walter by the way with the lazy version being Wal. Me thinks, why didn't I get "Golden Wal" or "King Wally" oh wait, yeh, someone did get that here.  

[RadPalms]

I know I am guilty but I will try to use the scientific names only from now on even on a quick post....but be easy on me for any typos I might make...

Curt

I know it will be better for me in the long run

[DoomsDave]

Use the Latin whenever you can.  Here, among Us Dysfunctionals, don't worry about the spelling.   Unless you're REALLY off, we'll know what you mean.

The flip side of a palm having many common names is that some common names attach to many palms.

Royal is one example, since it can mean any Roystonea.  Areca is another, since it can include Arecas and Dypsis lutescens.

A common problem particularly in the nursery trade is that palms get renamed, sometimes more than once, and people remember the old outdated names.

I still recall that giggle we in the PSSC had at the expert palm mover (no two ways about that) who still called Archontophoenix cunninghamiana "Seaforthia" a name long ago abandoned.

Anyway, learn the Latin names of all living things.  It's not that big of a deal, and it avoids confusion.  

Plus it makes it easier to meet hot science major chicks . . .

dave

[RadPalms]

Thank God for your off the wall humor Dave   And I hope to meet any type of chick at my age

[Alberto]

Another reason to use Scientific names is the fact that a lot of people on this forum are from around the world...

For example: do you grow the rare ´´jerivá´´at your place,or a ´´buriti-palito´´? No? The first is the well known Syagrus romanzoffiana and the second a Trithrinax acanthocoma.  Both are native here.The first names sound very familiar to me. But the second sound familiar to the hole palm world!

[FRITO]

I am terrible at spelling let alon scientific names of palms, I make sure I usuallyy get the correct spelling of each before I post.

one reason to spell properly is when you got to do a search on the forum, it returns only results that are spelled properly. mispelling will lead to a possibly loss of information when using the search feature and trying to find valuable information.

[paulgila]

as alberto points out,"common names" can vary from 1 country to the next.use of scietific names,while confusing at first,alleviates any doubt among palmophiles as to which palm you are speaking of.

i ordered "palms of indonesia" from the ips bookstore

& each palm has its common name listed,some are obvious,like "red palm" for cyrtoyschys renda &

"coconut palm" for cocos nucifera,but some are more obscure,like "spooky palm" for rhopaloblaste ceramica

& my favorite--"wanga" for pigafetta filaris.

[chris.oz]

(Palmy @ May 25 2007,01:40)

QUOTE

I know the majority of people on this board, and probably every palm meeting, uses scientific names rather than common names. I am curious at how many people know practically every palm by the scientific name? I also am curious to know how many people know how to spell them. If I was to use the scientific name more often and yet have mistakes would that be ok? The mistakes will be somewhat major, but its kinda annoying looking up in the books every time I need a name or looking on the web.  Or... Do you think looking every time will actually make me learn it? Just a curiosity question. Thanks

Here are some palms which I somewhat know vaguely. There are tons of mistakes.

- Arenga engliri

- Bismarkia nobolis

- parajubaea cocosides

- wodybicarfia (I dont even know if you can tell what im talking about)

- phoenix  robillini

- dypsis baronii

These are off the top of my head, no anything. Is this ok? I think now that Im looking at it I should continue to look in the books.

What do you think?

Zac,

If you are used to using the internet,  try pacsoa.org.au to get to know the names and get the spelling right.

Try Wikipedia..... Palmae or Arecaceae and you will see entries for all the genera and many of the species

[DoomsDave]

(RadPalms @ May 26 2007,19:04)

QUOTE

Thank God for your off the wall humor Dave   And I hope to meet any type of chick at my age

Me [expletive] too!

[DoomsDave]

(pohonkelapa @ May 26 2007,23:07)

QUOTE

as alberto points out,"common names" can vary from 1 country to the next.use of scietific names,while confusing at first,alleviates any doubt among palmophiles as to which palm you are speaking of.

i ordered "palms of indonesia" from the ips bookstore

& each palm has its common name listed,some are obvious,like "red palm" for cyrtoyschys renda &

"coconut palm" for cocos nucifera,but some are more obscure,like "spooky palm" for rhopaloblaste ceramica

& my favorite--"wanga" for pigafetta filaris.

Is there a "wanga tanga"???

   

[paulgila]

no,but there was a "wango tango",if that counts ::

[Dave-Vero]

A newspaper reports today that the Pope is considering going back to the Latin mass.

At least that has nothing to do with scientific names.  Linnaeus was not at all good at the academic Latin of his day, and some of his names leave you wondering.  An eastern North American pea with an interesting flower is Clitoria mariana L.

The palm family is relatively easy to figure out, thanks to field guides for the Americas, Madagascar, and New Caledonia, the superlative PACSOA website, and other web resources (including Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden).

For me, at least, it's also helpful that most of the cultivated plants represent wild species--there's some cultivated hybrids and such, but nothing like the masses of irises, camellias, roses, orchids and other garden plants.

[palmmermaid]

(Wal @ May 26 2007,17:22)

QUOTE

One of my old pet topics. I soon found my way through all of this. Study the palm scientific names by reading them and sounding them out, there is a document somewhere on the net which I found perfect to practise them. I still managed to fall into my own way of saying some of them though.

Ar-cont-oh-fee-nix, cunning-ham-ee-ar-nah

Yo-han-is-teez-man-ee-ah, al-ti-fronds

Fee-nix, ar-is-on-ah  ???

I actually suggested once we should try to internationalise common names, ha, im bloody possible. Too many nurserymen out there wanting there own fix on selling plants. Example, I have seen Dip-sis, ba-rone-ee-eye (Dypsis baronii) sold as the "red baron" palm. Chambeyronia has sold as "flamethrower", All the Archontophoenix sold as "king" palms in USA but never given that name here in their place of origin. Even here Archontophoenix cunninghamian sold as either "bangalow" or "picabeen". Not to mention "date" palms of which there is many species. We refer to Syagrus romanzoffiana as "cocos" palms in OZ, as they were once scientifically named "Cocos plumosa" and the name has stuck. The craziest one for me though has to be "Areca" palms in the USA for Dypsis lutescens. We call them "Golden Cane" palms here and I guarantee that has also stuck forever, So, try and skip these common names even though it's hard at times, it's a lazy thing really, that's my excuse. Palms do evoke a laid back feel I suppose.

Let us all try and stick to the scientific names whenever you can and what I find best in posting on this board is to include the scientific name in brackets after whatever common name you choose to write or vice versa.

There, that's tired me out, my scientific name is Walter by the way with the lazy version being Wal. Me thinks, why didn't I get "Golden Wal" or "King Wally" oh wait, yeh, someone did get that here.  

Wal,

So King Walter is taken?  What a shame.  It sounds so much better than Sir Walter - that one is taken anyway!  :laugh:

You do make several valid points.  I was approached by someone at a sale recently who asked if we had an Acai palm.  I had no clue what she was talking about.  Thank goodness I had my trusty Palm Encyclopedia and could look it up.  Turns out she was looking for a Euterpes.  She was from Brazil and did not know the scientific name of the palm!  And I didn't know her common name.  What a quandry!

And sometinmes even the scientific names are confusing when you throw in accents of people from other parts of the world.  But usually we can work through those.  

Robert Riffle's Encyclopedia of Palms has a pronunciation guide in the back that is very helpful.

[Gonzer]

Common names in all but the rarest of instances have no place in the horticultural world. Otherwise the geranium club with the little 'ol blue-haired ladies meets every month in the library.

[FossilNypa]

For me scientific names are good, but the synonyms bring a little confusion.

[Alan_Tampa]

Walstralis rex

Alan

[Dave-Vero]

The synonyms for scientific names are sometimes a problem even to biologists.  Palm names have been reasonably stable, but recent rearrangements of genera in the aster family (Asteraceae) have chopped up some familiar genera (including Aster itself) into many new ones.  Not to mention that a number of families are being recircumscribed.  The old "Scrophulariaceae"--snapdragons and such--is sort of disappearing.

[Neofolis]

I always use scientific names, because it allows consistency, as many plams don't even have a common name.  I don't even make any effort to know or remember common names, other then when I look them up for my website and then it's only for the benefit of others.

I think spelling is very important, because anyone searching the forum will not knowingly use the wrong spelling.

I usually the PACSOA Website to check spellings, as there are not that many species that aren't listed there.  That said, there are many species with which I am confident of the spelling now, so I don't have to look up as often as I used to.