size of BxJxQ

[Tropicdoc]

I have a couple of BJ x Q (Butia x Jubaea x Syagrus) from Patrick Scahefer. Does anyone else have this palm? Any idea how big it will get? Height? Spread? Need to know where I can plant them.

-Chad

[yabazid]

very  big

[Tom in Tucson]

12 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

I have a couple of BJ x Q (Butia x Jubaea x Syagrus) from Patrick Scahefer. Does anyone else have this palm? Any idea how big it will get? Height? Spread? Need to know where I can plant them.

-Chad

I own one from the same source. From what I understand they can get as large as a queen palm (in Florida). Mine thus far is better looking than a queen (sorry no pics), but is much slower. It grows at the same rate as a standard mule palm.

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 71°, Lo 52°

[Sandy Loam]

This is one palm that I would LOVE to see photos of in maturity.  So, the consensus is that it will grow big, but If no mature specimens exist, how do we know what size it will eventually become?  

For landscaping purposes, I would mainly want to know how soon people can walk underneath this palm.  The trunk will be predictably thick, I suppose, but that's easy to leave space for. The problem is the crown.  A huge crown that has no trunk and stays at ground level for years can be a huge space hog in a landscape plan.      

[Ben in Norcal]

[Sandy Loam]

Wow.  I am speechless. That is one nice looking tree.  It is more attractive than a Butia x. Parajubaea, although I must admit that I have never seen a photo of a trunking BxP (especially not a fifteen foot trunk like this one pictured above).  Is there a lot of variation in BxJxQ?  This one looks a lot like a Parajubaea Sunkha, even though the Parajubaea element might be a different Parajubaea altogether (Which Parajubaea does Patric Shaeffer use for this particular hybrid?  P. Cocoides?)   

Ben-in-Norcal, is this tree on your property?  If not, where is it located?

Thanks! 

[Kailua_Krish]

Isn't that Merrell Wilcox's tree from Gainesville?

[Ben in Norcal]

Correct, it is Merrell's tree.  I see it variously specified as BxJxS and JxBxS, but should give you an idea of what these trees will turn in to.

[Ben in Norcal]

7 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

(Which Parajubaea does Patric Shaeffer use for this particular hybrid?  P. Cocoides?)   

[Ben in Norcal]

Just now, Ben in Norcal said:

7 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

(Which Parajubaea does Patric Shaeffer use for this particular hybrid?  P. Cocoides?)   

Patric has used both cocoides (Darold's) and sunkha.

[Sandy Loam]

Interesting --- so if your goal is to get some height, one should choose the hybrid with parajubaea cocoides instead, I suppose. 

I can take an updated photo of the tree above if someone is willing to send me the address (by personal message, of course).  I understand that Merrill Wilcox passed away over a year ago, but I would image that this tree is still there behind his mailbox.  I had heard that Merrill lived somewhere west of Gainesville (out of town), but I have never met him. If that photo is 10 or more years old, the tree could be much taller by now.    

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Its still there as i saw it last year in person. I'm sure i have pics somewhere. 

[Tropicdoc]

On 2/17/2018, 2:28:31, Sandy Loam said:

Wow.  I am speechless. That is one nice looking tree.  It is more attractive than a Butia x. Parajubaea, although I must admit that I have never seen a photo of a trunking BxP (especially not a fifteen foot trunk like this one pictured above).  Is there a lot of variation in BxJxQ?  This one looks a lot like a Parajubaea Sunkha, even though the Parajubaea element might be a different Parajubaea altogether (Which Parajubaea does Patric Shaeffer use for this particular hybrid?  P. Cocoides?)   

Ben-in-Norcal, is this tree on your property?  If not, where is it located?

Thanks! 

Confused. Bxjxq is butia x jubaea x syagrus... no parajubaea in there

i don’t think Patrick has done b x j x parajubaea though I would like to get a hold of one if he has it!

alberto posted pics of b x pjc with short trunk the crown is nice but the trunk is not clean... lots of boots and fiber

[Sandy Loam]

Oops. That's my fault.  Somehow I started confusing the Jubaea element with Parajubaea.  I'm not sure what I was thinking.  Anyway, the consensus seems to be that the photo above is either BxJxQ or QxJxB.

[Kailua_Krish]

1 hour ago, Sandy Loam said:

Oops. That's my fault.  Somehow I started confusing the Jubaea element with Parajubaea.  I'm not sure what I was thinking.  Anyway, the consensus seems to be that the photo above is either BxJxQ or QxJxB.

No, its either (BxJ)xQ or (JxB)xQ. Its discussed quite a bit in older threads

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

It is more likely that it is a BJ x Q, just like Patric's crosses. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I don't know what happened to the rest of my post.  I think that hybrid in the back yard (that most likely finally succumbed to ganoderma) was a JxB but Emmet Wilcox told me that they never produced viable seed from it.  BxJ flower at a much younger age and seem to be easier to produce seed from.

[Kailua_Krish]

I had a hard time with and eventually ripped out my JxB because of constant fungal issues and it never looking all that good. They seem to be a difficult grow in North Central FL just like their Jubaea parent. The BxJ grow well though as does the JxS. Funny how the last one does well but the Syagrus must add just enough tropical umph to be able to tolerate the moisture.

[Sandy Loam]

Good to know that Jubaea x Butia is one to strike off the list for any humid, hot and wet climate, or at least for Florida.  (Palmtalkers, take note)

.... and there is zero risk of Fusarium Wilt ever attacking Butia x. Jubaea, isn't there?  I wouldn't buy a Jubaea x. Syagrus due to the Fusarium Wilt in my region.  We pretty much have to stop landscaping with Syagrus, CIDP and Washingtonia here.  

Actually, the only Patric Schaeffer hybrid that I currently have is Butia x. Parajubaea Cocoides.  I am waiting for it to take off at high speed, in keeping with its fast-growing reputation.  I would also consider buying a BxJ if Patric Schaeffer still sells them and they are fast-growing.

      

[Sandy Loam]

I checked out this PalmTalk thread (http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/43674-b-x-j-vs-j-x-b-and-other-hybrid-combos/) and it makes BxJ look much more like a regular pindo palm than I was expecting. (Scroll down to photos posted by JLeVert)  This is a bit disappointing because I'm not a fan of pindo palms.  The BxJ doesn't look anything like the gorgeous (BxJ)xSyagrus pictured above.   

 

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

JxB are better looking than BxJ IMO. Those looking for hardiness ranking are as follows:

Bud hardiness

#1 BxJ

#2 JxB

#3 Jubaea

#4 Butia

BxJ defoliate at 8F, JxB 8-9  (I have one JxB that only had 50% burn @7F) Jubaea and B. Odorata defoliate at 11-12F, silver Odorata slightly less. Butia Catarensis (commonly found in florida) defoliate for me at 13F.  I will make a lot of posts here in the cold damage forum once everything gets a few green fronds pushed out.

[Tropicdoc]

7 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Good to know that Jubaea x Butia is one to strike off the list for any humid, hot and wet climate, or at least for Florida.  (Palmtalkers, take note)

.... and there is zero risk of Fusarium Wilt ever attacking Butia x. Jubaea, isn't there?  I wouldn't buy a Jubaea x. Syagrus due to the Fusarium Wilt in my region.  We pretty much have to stop landscaping with Syagrus, CIDP and Washingtonia here.  

Actually, the only Patric Schaeffer hybrid that I currently have is Butia x. Parajubaea Cocoides.  I am waiting for it to take off at high speed, in keeping with its fast-growing reputation.  I would also consider buying a BxJ if Patric Schaeffer still sells them and they are fast-growing.

      

Come on let’s see your b x pjc I just transplanted 2 of mine closer to the pool.... pics to come on my new pool thread

[Sandy Loam]

Ok - will do later on in daylight.  Just be aware that mine was new from Patric less than a year ago. It was in a pot for a while and was planted in the ground in November, but it is still quite small and unspectacular.   It might be two feet tall at best.  I will definitely post more picture in ten years when it is big.

[Kailua_Krish]

22 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Good to know that Jubaea x Butia is one to strike off the list for any humid, hot and wet climate, or at least for Florida.  (Palmtalkers, take note)

.... and there is zero risk of Fusarium Wilt ever attacking Butia x. Jubaea, isn't there?  I wouldn't buy a Jubaea x. Syagrus due to the Fusarium Wilt in my region.  We pretty much have to stop landscaping with Syagrus, CIDP and Washingtonia here.  

Actually, the only Patric Schaeffer hybrid that I currently have is Butia x. Parajubaea Cocoides.  I am waiting for it to take off at high speed, in keeping with its fast-growing reputation.  I would also consider buying a BxJ if Patric Schaeffer still sells them and they are fast-growing.

      

Is fusarium wilt that bad in Gainesville? I haven't noticed it in Ocala.

[Sandy Loam]

In the past two years, I have noticed that something is killing quite a few Washingtonias and the occasional CIDP.  I haven't really noticed it affecting queen Palms or other phoenix in Gainesville.  I also don't know whether it is fusarium wilt, Texas Phoenix Palm Decline or something else, but it's out there.  Whatever it is, once it starts, it quickly kills the palm.

Even that very old, giant CIDP right at the Newberry Road exit off I-75 suddenly died recently (the one beside Rooms to Go).

[Sandy Loam]

Can anyone speculate as to how a (Butia Odorata x. Jubaea Chilienses) x Syagrus Romanzofffiana, aka. BxJxQ  would grow in deep shade?  I don't want to wait four decades for this palm to grow up, so if I truly need to plan it in a sunny spot, I will.  I don't want to plan it in sun, but I will if I absolutely have to.  (My chosen spot is very shaded; almost no direct sun at all) 

Some of my palms don't budge at all in shade, even after several years of sitting there.  Others are rockets in shade, so I really do need your advice. I'll be planting my new PxJxQ in a week, so the sooner you can advise, the better.

Thanks all!

[Tom in Tucson]

I'm sure you mean (BxJ)xQ not PxJxQ. Mine is in full shade about 40% of the day, and it looks much more elegant and "Queen like" than my other 'mules' (BxQ, JxQ, BxPjc, BxPjs, JxB, B yatay x Q, and B paraquayensis x Pjc).

Sorry for the lack of images , and good luck with your final location

Hi 87°, Lo 69° - cloudy with light rain

[Sandy Loam]

Thanks. Yes, that was a typo and I meant to say BxJxQ.

Shade 40% of the day is a lot more sun than my new one will be receiving.  Mine will receive sun zero % of the day and shade 100% of the day.  I just hope that I am not making a bad site choice.  I will wait for more responses, although there may be nobody out there on PalmTalk who has ever tried planting a (BxJ)xQ in full shade.

Thanks Tom-in-Tucson.

One last question:  The palm that I am about to receive was originally labelled as "Butia x Jubaea x Syagrus," but is now coming from a subsequent owner who did not create the label.  Can I safely assume that the original owner intended to write "(Butia x Jubaea) x Syagrus"?  This is not a Patric Schaeffer-originated hybrid, by the way.  It is from a different source, originally from Florida.