Pre '89 Coconut Satellite Beach

[Kekoanui]

[Matthew92]

Picture won't show for me.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Pic not working.  

[Josh-O]

nada

[Kekoanui]

E kala mai!  Amazing this palm survived low 20's.  No northwest exposure!

[IHB1979]

Cool find, how did you confirm this was pre 89'?

Wonder if the penciling 2/3 up the trunk is from that freeze.

Edited August 18, 2017 by IHB1979
typo

[Kekoanui]

I moved to Satellite Beach in '89.  It was well established at that point when I started surfing just south of this condo. Imagine more of coco palms could survive further north with the same protection.  I know of a few more few more survivors in Indian Harbor Beach and Indialantic.

[ck_in_fla]

South of Melbourne Beach, on the barrier island, there are many very tall Coconut palms.  There must be many pre-1989 survivors among them.  I was through there last month and if you didn't know better, you would think you were in the Keys...

[Kekoanui]

That coconut in particular spawned my interest in pushing the zone with tropical palms. 

[Reeverse]

That is a great Survivor. Impressive 

[topwater]

It's in a really sweet spot, six stories of motel on two sides, perfect.  9b or 10a?  

[RedRabbit]

Wow, seriously? I thought costal Brevard lost a lot of royals that year even, I'm surprised to see a coconut survived. 

[Bill H2DB]

10 hours ago, topwater said:

It's in a really sweet spot, six stories of motel on two sides, perfect.  9b or 10a?  

  And that  " V " apparently opens to the SE out to the sea , so North and NW winds are shed , and that swimming pool right there

all ad up to an optimum site .

[RedRabbit]

19 hours ago, topwater said:

It's in a really sweet spot, six stories of motel on two sides, perfect.  9b or 10a?  

Officially 10a, but if you really look at the data it is slightly over the threshold for 10b.

8 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

  And that  " V " apparently opens to the SE out to the sea , so North and NW winds are shed , and that swimming pool right there

all ad up to an optimum site .

Yeah, that really is a great little spot for a cold sensitive palm.

[Yunder Wækraus]

On 8/18/2017, 4:42:43, Kekoanui said:

E kala mai!  Amazing this palm survived low 20's.  No northwest exposure!

Is that the Sandpiper condos?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2017‎ ‎7‎:‎24‎:‎46‎, topwater said:

It's in a really sweet spot, six stories of motel on two sides, perfect.  9b or 10a?  

USDA interactive has this at a 10A  (30.8F).

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

USDA interactive has this at a 10A  (30.8F).

It's much warmer than that...here is a sample of annual extreme lows at Patrick AFB (just north of Satellite Beach):

2016: 36F

2015: 38F

2014: 39F

2013: 42F

2012: 36F

2011: 36F

2010: 30F

... (nothing below 32F)

2000: 30F

1989: 24F

1985: 25F

1977: 30F

1962: 27F

Seems like a zone 11 winter is more likely than a freeze. 

[Kekoanui]

When I first moved to Satellite it was nowhere near subtropical in regards to palms.  In the 90's the closest place a nurseryman would even purchase specimen coconut palms and royals was Hobe Sound.  Collectors around New Smyrna will attest to that as well.  The more palm enthusiasts  who were willing to push the limits along the barrier islands set the standard for the material nurseryman were willing to supply and today the place looks like south Florida.   The winter of 2010, however, killed at least 25 percent of the coconut palms along central and southern coastal Brevard.  In my opinion, Brevard in not a zona 10a.  The palm I posted should not be there post '89. Yet the fact that so many people are willing to push the limits of this zone is what makes Brevard such a special place today.  

[Eric in Orlando]

Awesome find! I'll look for it next time I am over there.

Prior to the '89 freeze there were plenty of coconuts and royals on MI. Some were killed in the '83 and '85 freezes. Almost all the coconuts were then wiped out in '89 but some royals survived. There was a NASA or Air Force tracking radar along the beach just north of Ron Jons. Next to it is the Wakulla Hotel . They planted some coconuts around 1986/87 and one of them survived the '89 freeze. But it was growing into power lines and is gone now. 

Around 1991/92 I started seeing coconuts get planted back along the beachside. I was still surfing then and was over there 2-3x a week. There used to be a nursery/garden center along A1A near "downtown" Cocoa Beach that sold nice sized coconuts in pots. Several hotels and restaurants planted trunking coconuts around 91-92.

[Zeeth]

On 8/23/2017, 10:11:21, Kekoanui said:

When I first moved to Satellite it was nowhere near subtropical in regards to palms.  In the 90's the closest place a nurseryman would even purchase specimen coconut palms and royals was Hobe Sound.  Collectors around New Smyrna will attest to that as well.  The more palm enthusiasts  who were willing to push the limits along the barrier islands set the standard for the material nurseryman were willing to supply and today the place looks like south Florida.   The winter of 2010, however, killed at least 25 percent of the coconut palms along central and southern coastal Brevard.  In my opinion, Brevard in not a zona 10a.  The palm I posted should not be there post '89. Yet the fact that so many people are willing to push the limits of this zone is what makes Brevard such a special place today.  

A few years ago I went through the weather data from Patrick AFB to get a good idea of the climate there. I compiled all of the data from 1945 to 2015 and had some interesting findings. For the USDA zone, the average minimum for all of those years ended up being 35.12˚ F, so technically on the low-end of 10b. This included all of the freezes of the 80's, so I didn't exclude anomalies. The lowest temp seen during that period was 24˚ in 1989.

Additionally, I made a chart of average high/low for each month of the year, with rainfall and extremes. The most notable thing to me is that the ocean seems to influence mostly the average winter low. Somewhere more inland like Palm Bay has a similar average January high, but the average January low is more comparable to somewhere like Ft. Lauderdale. I call this a "cool 10b", compared to Ft. Lauderdale's "warm 10b" that can support some more tropical stuff like Areca catechu and Pritcharia pacifica. 

 

[Yunder Wækraus]

My aunt moved to the barrier island in the 60s, and by the 70s they had a house in Satellite Beach they landscaped with 10a plants. I think the tropical vibe predates the 80s by quite a bit. They since moved out of the house (I believe in 89), but it still has plants my cousin helped my uncle plant in the late 70s or early 80s. Here's a recent pic. I know the traveler palm is one they planted 30 years ago.

[pj_orlando_z9b]

Drove A1A today from Vero to Melbourne. The barrier island looks like the keys. Absolutely populated with coconut trees many of which are sporting near mature coconuts. Some had nearly 25 feet of clear trunk. Many other tropical palms too.  Unbelievable this is 60 miles from my house in the Orlando 'burbs. What a difference the ocean and proximity to the gulf stream plays. And no crowds!

[ck_in_fla]

On 8/18/2018, 8:01:21, pj_orlando_z9b said:

Drove A1A today from Vero to Melbourne. The barrier island looks like the keys. Absolutely populated with coconut trees many of which are sporting near mature coconuts. Some had nearly 25 feet of clear trunk. Many other tropical palms too.  Unbelievable this is 60 miles from my house in the Orlando 'burbs. What a difference the ocean and proximity to the gulf stream plays. And no crowds!

I did that drive last year and agree 100%.  The landscape is full of 10a/10b trees all the way to Cape Canaveral.

It's like a little slice of South Florida here in Central Florida.  :-)

[Walt]

Back in 1970 I drove the length of Florida's east coast all the way to Key West. Since I had never been to Florida, and I liked coconut palms, I drove down Rt. 1 and A1A (at various points), and purposely looked to see where I would spot my first coconut palm. I can't exactly recollect if I was on Rt. 1 or A1A, when I first started to see what I felt were dead and/or ragged sparse crowns of  coconut palms, most likely killed or damaged by a freeze or cold winter weather. In any case, I don't recall seeing my first healthy looking coconut palm until got to around the  Port St. Lucie area. 

I stopped at a motel for the night in Stuart.  The motel had some fairly tall coconut palms (with nuts) on the grounds. After I checked in I drove over to a barrier island to a restaurant. It was very tropical looking there, with lots of coconuts and royal palms. I think once I got down to Palm Beach I picked up A1A and drove that down to around Ft. Lauderdale. I seem to recall lots of barren road and lots of undeveloped land then. No doubt so much has been developed in 48 years.

[Matthew92]

20 minutes ago, Walt said:

Back in 1970 I drove the length of Florida's east coast all the way to Key West. Since I had never been to Florida, and I liked coconut palms, I drove down Rt. 1 and A1A (at various points), and purposely looked to see where I would spot my first coconut palm. I can't exactly recollect if I was on Rt. 1 or A1A, when I first started to see what I felt were dead and/or ragged sparse crowns of  coconut palms, most likely killed or damaged by a freeze or cold winter weather. In any case, I don't recall seeing my first healthy looking coconut palm until got to around the  Port St. Lucie area. 

I stopped at a motel for the night in Stuart.  The motel had some fairly tall coconut palms (with nuts) on the grounds. After I checked in I drove over to a barrier island to a restaurant. It was very tropical looking there, with lots of coconuts and royal palms. I think once I got down to Palm Beach I picked up A1A and drove that down to around Ft. Lauderdale. I seem to recall lots of barren road and lots of undeveloped land then. No doubt so much has been developed in 48 years.

What you saw probably was lethal yellowing!

[Walt]

19 hours ago, Opal92 said:

What you saw probably was lethal yellowing!

May have very well have been dead coconut palms due to LY. Back then I didn't even know what LY was, nor any other palm disease.