Register for hybrid palm names?

[XYZ]

I was wondering whether the IPS is the entity responsible for holding a formal registry of hybrid palm names, or if there is such a body elsewhere, like the RHS? Has anyone here registered a unique palm hybrid?

TIA,

Jay

[Patrick]

Butiagrus nabonnandii comes to mind, but I wouldn't have the first idea of the process or who controls it.

[XYZ]

I am not sure whether the name your referenced is a registered hybrid name or just a "made-up" nursery trade name for a very old primary hybrid.

[LJG]

J, this is a very good question and one that I have wondered about myself in the past. I know the IPS doesn't do this but I can ask John, Scott and Larry if they know. I doubt there is any registry of palm hybrids but I'll get back to you. 

[XYZ]

Muito obrigado, Len. Given that there are many "good" and fairly recent hort hybrids around now - incl. genera such as Dypsis, Cyrtostachys, Chamaedorea, Syagrus, etc.- if one does not exist, would seem a very logical role for the IPS.

[LJG]

Got two replies back quickly:

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Scott Zona:

"The simple answer is no, and no there is no registry of names, like there is with orchid hybrids at the RHS.  Hybrids have been described and named in the pages of Principes/PALMS and elsewhere, as have cultivar names, but there is no registry for doing so.  Consequently, hybrids can be named in either of two ways.  1. As nothospecies (i.e., a latinized name preceded by an X, as in Syagrus x costae). 2. As cultivar names, such as Chamaedorea Dick Douglas.  They can be published anywhere, although I’d encourage breeders to publish them in PALMS, which would be the logical place and which would reach the most relevant audience.  Plant breeders should become well versed in the International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. http://www.actahort.org/chronica/pdf/sh_10.pdf"

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Larry Noblick:

"I don't believe there is a separate registry for hybrid names. If a hybrid is given a unique name then that name can be found one or all of the following lists:

The Plantlist (http://www.theplantlist.org/)

IPNI (International Plant Names Index) (http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantnamesearchpage.do)

World Checklist of Selected Plant Families: Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew (apps.kew.org/wcsp/)

 

If a hybrid does not have a unique name, then you are most likely correct in thinking that it probably is lost in the literature somewhere. I have some hybrids like that, which are in my revision (i.e. S. romanzoffiana x S. loefgrenii)"

[XYZ]

Thanks again! For clarification, AFAIK, cultivar names should always be bracketed by single quotation marks, so Chamaedorea 'Dick Douglas' for a clone, but undifferentiated hybrid offspring can be named free of quotes, so Chamaedorea Dick Douglas might include all seedlings from that particular cross.

Execsum seems to be that we are free to use and abuse made up names to describe palm hybrids, but it would be preferable to publish them formally as notes in "Palms".

Got it.

Jay

[LJG]

Jay, there is some agreement from Larry and others about the IPS needing to take lead on this. It doesn't look to difficult a project for us and I will make sure the discussion moves forward to the Board.

[XYZ]

Thanks for the offer to lobby this with the IPS board, Len. I am very interested in publishing a novel & noteworthy palm hybrid with hort potential later this year (it's colonial, so can be vegetatively propagated) and it would be great if the IPS was the formal registrar for the hybrid. The mom is still an undescribed sp., so need to tackle that first.

Jay

[Mandrew968]

Jay! Whatcha got??? I would imagine it is a Chamy hybrid and a neat one at that. Kudos to you as I have never been successful... 

I do have some Coccothrinax hybrids a friend gave me (borhidiana X spissa). Though probably not stable, I thought they would be neat landscape plants.

[LJG]

On 5/5/2017, 6:40:58, stone jaguar said:

Thanks for the offer to lobby this with the IPS board, Len. I am very interested in publishing a novel & noteworthy palm hybrid with hort potential later this year (it's colonial, so can be vegetatively propagated) and it would be great if the IPS was the formal registrar for the hybrid. The mom is still an undescribed sp., so need to tackle that first.

Jay

Interesting to hear what the parents are when time. 

[XYZ]

Mandrew:

Yes, it's a showy Chamaedorea hybrid that involves two very rare montane cloud forest spp.;  a (currently) undescribed pinnate leaf, cespitose female and a male of a bifid leaf sp. Leaves of the offspring are bifid. The plant has flowered an is a male. Appears that it may sprout at lower leaf nodes as well as basally.

Jay

[Mandrew968]

20 hours ago, stone jaguar said:

Mandrew:

Yes, it's a showy Chamaedorea hybrid that involves two very rare montane cloud forest spp.;  a (currently) undescribed pinnate leaf, cespitose female and a male of a bifid leaf sp. Leaves of the offspring are bifid. The plant has flowered an is a male. Appears that it may sprout at lower leaf nodes as well as basally.

Jay

From what I have read, solitary trait is dominant on hybrids(Hodel's book)--have you noticed or experienced this? You only have one offspring? Too bad it's a montane plant--that counts me out for growing any...

[LJG]

8 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

From what I have read, solitary trait is dominant on hybrids(Hodel's book)--have you noticed or experienced this? You only have one offspring? Too bad it's a montane plant--that counts me out for growing any...

I have a bunch of Chamaedorea costaricana x woodsoniana hyrbids. All single. 

[richnorm]

A list of hybrids would be great with or without common names, especially intergeneric hybrids.  Would also be interesting to include failed hybrid attempts.   Maybe something for Palmpedia so people can self edit?

 

[XYZ]

Mandrew:

If you go through Hodel's quite thorough compilation of Chamaedorea hybrids in his monograph, you will note that most of the crosses involving cespitose and solitary spp have solitary seed parents. I must say that I would have lost money if I had wagered on the habit of Len's hybrid offspring knowing the cross beforehand...C costaricana seems a very strong play as a seed parent when seeking colonial offspring. I suppose that evidence for almost all of the crosses thus far indicates that a solitary habit is a dominant trait in Chamaedorea when it is one half of the cross.

In my case, as noted above, I used a colonial, pinnate-leaf seed parent with an solitary, acaulescent bifid leaf pollen parent and got the best of both worlds; a tall, vigorously offsetting plant with no creeping rhizome and large bifid leaves from the pollen parent. Expect it will do well in milder parts of SoCal but doubt it will be suitable for outdoor planting in SoFlo. Where it may have promise is as a high-end interiorscape plant since it has OK resistance to spider mites.

Rich: I suspect that a curated list of failed crosses would be a bit unwieldy and of limited value to breeders. One of the advantages of fora such as this one is the ease with which one can make open inquiries as to the feasibility of crossing X and Y. The fact that I failed on a single attempt to cross two Geonoma spp. last year means little in light of my confidence that another palm collector I know will succeed with same cross in fairly short order.

Jay

[JD in the OC]

I'll help.

[Mandrew968]

On 5/12/2017, 11:05:44, stone jaguar said:

Mandrew:

If you go through Hodel's quite thorough compilation of Chamaedorea hybrids in his monograph, you will note that most of the crosses involving cespitose and solitary spp have solitary seed parents. I must say that I would have lost money if I had wagered on the habit of Len's hybrid offspring knowing the cross beforehand...C costaricana seems a very strong play as a seed parent when seeking colonial offspring. I suppose that evidence for almost all of the crosses thus far indicates that a solitary habit is a dominant trait in Chamaedorea when it is one half of the cross.

 

I think that's what I said...