Queen Palms Houston

[mthteh1916]

In light of the recent thread about freeze damage to Queen Palms in Houston, I did some google streetviews around the western side of Houston. I quickly came upon two Queen palms that looked somewhat damaged in January 2015. That winter didn't even see temps below 28F SW of Houston at Sugarland. Yet the Queens in this streetview look damaged. Not only that, they were planted in 2007 and appear to have almost no growth in 8 years. Any idea why such slow growth for supposed fast growing Queen palms? And why damage in such a mild winter? You can streetview back to 2007 and see that they have grown very little. Shouldn't these Queens be much taller than 8 years ago when they were planted. It almost seems as if Queens aren't really hardy in Houston with that kind of growth. 

https://goo.gl/maps/7jR6WLbYuo42

 

[PalmatierMeg]

They probably haven't been fertilized since they were planted because their owners were too ignorant & cheap to care for them. Queens are water and fertilizer hogs. If they don't get plenty of both they will stagnate then eventually die. Most of the queens in Cape Coral receive absolutely no care and are in various stages of dying. My soil is nutrition-deprived calcareous sand and queens need a lot of support to even survive. They seldom get it. Actually, queens are lousy choices and Class II exotics as landscape palms here but are sold at every chain garden center. My 7 large queens (planted in 1993 before I became palm savvy) were gorgeous but I took excellent care of them. However, all succumbed to fusarium wilt in 2015, which has turned into a blessing of sorts - no more slippery, slimy fruit, seeds or volunteer seedlings.

I recommend mule palms instead. They are sterile so you won't have all those nasty seeds.

Welcome to PalmTalk

[Xenon]

Here is a counterexample (with three lovely Bismarckia as a bonus): queen palm + bismarck houston

There are tons of queen palms in most parts of Houston...some of them are runts like the ones you posted, especially the ones growing in those parking lot islands...but they do manage to survive haha

 

[mthteh1916]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Here is a counterexample (with three lovely Bismarckia as a bonus): queen palm + bismarck houston

There are tons of queen palms in most parts of Houston...some of them are runts like the ones you posted, especially the ones growing in those parking lot islands...but they do manage to survive haha

 

They look healthy, however I would say the very close proximity to the buildings and the micro climate that creates is the reason. Show me large Bismarkia in Houston far from a building. That would be neat to see.  I always thought Queen palms are zone 9a so they should be fine in and around Houston. I was just curious why they barely grew in 8 years. Bismarkia though are 9b and I thought they were only hardy in the 9b parts of FL and TX.

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Here is a counterexample (with three lovely Bismarckia as a bonus): queen palm + bismarck houston

There are tons of queen palms in most parts of Houston...some of them are runts like the ones you posted, especially the ones growing in those parking lot islands...but they do manage to survive haha

 

Must admit, those bismarkias look very nice.

 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, mthteh1916 said:

They look healthy, however I would say the very close proximity to the buildings and the micro climate that creates is the reason. Show me large Bismarkia in Houston far from a building. That would be neat to see.  I always thought Queen palms are zone 9a so they should be fine in and around Houston. I was just curious why they barely grew in 8 years. Bismarkia though are 9b and I thought they were only hardy in the 9b parts of FL and TX.

Queen palms are very common in Houston. The ones you posted are just in bad conditions. As you can see, they survived the 2010/2011 freezes (albeit with near total defoliation) and we definitely have enough heat so climate/weather is not the reason they haven't grown much in 8 years. 

Houston metro covers a huge area spanning both ends of zone 9: 8b/9a in Conroe/the Woodlands to 9a for the areas outside the outer loop (including IAH), a very solid 9a for the outer loop, 9a/9b-9b (warmest sections of the heat island) for the inner loop and south/southeast Houston, and 9b to borderline 10a for the bayfront down to Galveston.

I'll try to get some pictures for you tomorrow.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Xenon

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Xenon is correct.  Queens are hardy right up to the woodlands and then south of tomball on the NW side of town. Any further north than that and they will eventually die from the cold. This isn't to say that there aren't neglected queen palms that die all over houston each year. A weak palm will be damaged and die from a higher temperature than a healthy one and i believe this is what you are seeing. A quick snapshot on google Earth is not a replacement for seeing the area first hand over the years; queens are completely hardy inside the beltway in houston.  

 Washingtonia robusta is completely hardy to Huntsville, but you will see them grown all the way up to Dallas-Fort Worth.

[Bennz]

They looked a lot worse in 2011!

[Xenon]

Here are some pics from my stroll around the West Loop area, all of these palms are growing a few blocks from each other. Low from January's arctic blast was in the 21-22F range. Damage ranged from nearly no damage to some moderate cosmetic damage.

[Xenon]

[Xenon]

 

Phoenix roebelenii are hardy in the inner loop (with a bit of bleed) and south/southeast Houston

Ravenea rivularis seems to be bud hardy into the low 20s...there are some in Houston that survived both the 2010 and 2011 freezes

Surprise! Yes that is a triangle palm, Dypsis decaryi.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Xenon

[Xenon]

These are growing in Katy, a much colder western suburb. Usually runs a few degrees colder than in-town areas, though there wasn't much of a difference last winter. Low was 19F. Much more damage and some total defoliation, but looks like most or all will survive. 



My neighbor's queen palm looks quite good

[Xenon]

And as a testament to the heat island effect...still waiting to see if it will live or not. This foxtail in Montrose somehow managed to survive the 2011 freeze (based on google maps)...might even be slightly older than that.

[topwater]

My impression is that queens are pretty much bullit proof in 9b, and rock solid through the warm half of 9a. I've never seen much in the way of cold damage in the 9a bayside areas. That January freeze really hit the west side of town bad, it skirted the far south. The low at my place was 28f, the owner of a nursery in a warmer part of Galveston said her low was 30f.  It's hard to believe the north and west were in the teens. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by topwater

[mthteh1916]

23 hours ago, Xenon said:

Queen palms are very common in Houston. The ones you posted are just in bad conditions. As you can see, they survived the 2010/2011 freezes (albeit with near total defoliation) and we definitely have enough heat so climate/weather is not the reason they haven't grown much in 8 years. 

Houston metro covers a huge area spanning both ends of zone 9: 8b/9a in Conroe/the Woodlands to 9a for the areas outside the outer loop (including IAH), a very solid 9a for the outer loop, 9a/9b-9b (warmest sections of the heat island) for the inner loop and south/southeast Houston, and 9b to borderline 10a for the bayfront down to Galveston.

I'll try to get some pictures for you tomorrow.

Cool. Would like to see some pics of real healthy ones. thanks.

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, mthteh1916 said:

Cool. Would like to see some pics of real healthy ones. thanks.

Yep, just wait a few months and the palms in the pictures I posted will look pristine again. This was our first major freeze since 2011. Like topwater said, probably have to get closer to the bay/coast to find queens completely undamaged by January's freeze. 

[topwater]

My neighbors queens.

[topwater]

[topwater]

Rarely do I have a camera handy when I need one. Bonus pic. 

[AnTonY]

On 3/23/2017, 4:28:56, mthteh1916 said:

In light of the recent thread about freeze damage to Queen Palms in Houston, I did some google streetviews around the western side of Houston. I quickly came upon two Queen palms that looked somewhat damaged in January 2015. That winter didn't even see temps below 28F SW of Houston at Sugarland. Yet the Queens in this streetview look damaged. Not only that, they were planted in 2007 and appear to have almost no growth in 8 years. Any idea why such slow growth for supposed fast growing Queen palms? And why damage in such a mild winter? You can streetview back to 2007 and see that they have grown very little. Shouldn't these Queens be much taller than 8 years ago when they were planted. It almost seems as if Queens aren't really hardy in Houston with that kind of growth. 

https://goo.gl/maps/7jR6WLbYuo42

 

 

On 3/23/2017, 5:15:56, PalmatierMeg said:

They probably haven't been fertilized since they were planted because their owners were too ignorant & cheap to care for them. Queens are water and fertilizer hogs. If they don't get plenty of both they will stagnate then eventually die. Most of the queens in Cape Coral receive absolutely no care and are in various stages of dying. My soil is nutrition-deprived calcareous sand and queens need a lot of support to even survive. They seldom get it. Actually, queens are lousy choices and Class II exotics as landscape palms here but are sold at every chain garden center. My 7 large queens (planted in 1993 before I became palm savvy) were gorgeous but I took excellent care of them. However, all succumbed to fusarium wilt in 2015, which has turned into a blessing of sorts - no more slippery, slimy fruit, seeds or volunteer seedlings.

I recommend mule palms instead. They are sterile so you won't have all those nasty seeds.

Welcome to PalmTalk

Yep, the palms may just be missing certain features of care (nutrient, water, etc) that would allow them to thrive; notice how off and  way out there they look on that median,  The soil pH in Houston ranges from acidic to neutral, which is suitable for queens, so neglect may be the answer.